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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Missing since: 05 Feb 2005
Notes left: 772
Last seen at: On The Internet
Artemis Panthar wrote:
To preface, I'm atheist. So I don't believe in anything spiritual whatsoever. But religion (spiritualism, christianity and so forth), as with pretty much anything in life, can be contorted to real life to increase the "possibility" (belief, rather) that it's true. People pray, something good happens, thus they assume that by praying they made the good thing happen. It's self empowerment though a "greater" being. Which is funny, because a lot of the time it's that person's own will that made that good thing happen (depending on the situation of course) which would be better empowering. But nobody wants to think that we're alone, with no goal, destined to live and then die with no fanfare at all. All religions stress the presense of a god or greater purpose and that's what causes good things (or even bad things to happen) because they want so much for it to be true, than it will be true. Am I making much sense? I tend to babble a bit XD


Fill me in on atheism. So you really believe that when you die, you just go in the ground and rot and thats the end?

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 26 Jan 2004
Notes left: 2232
Last seen at: In the tattered recesses of your very mind
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I believe the whole,if you will it with your mind it will happen,but isn't this exactly what magick is.Willing something and it happening?


Not just willing. Not like sitting there and trying to force it to happen, but taking measures to cause something to happen. The will of the mind is very strong and we'll percieve something to happen, but as humans our natural curiousity for how things work prevents us (usually) from believing in something without some sort of proof or method. But using abstract materials and chantings it cements in our minds that since it has a method, it'll work. It's a lot easier to get somewhere when you have a map, afterall.

Everything is created within the mind (depending on what you believe determines where you believe the mind comes from). For instance, you don't see with your eyes, you see with your brain.

Quote:
Fill me in on atheism. So you really believe that when you die, you just go in the ground and rot and thats the end?


No, I believe that when I die I'm dead and what happens to my body is a concern only for the living. It's hard to explain because it's a really bizarre thing for the human mind to fathom, not being. We only ever know what it is to be, afterall. But I suppose it's akin to being born blind or born deaf. It's not the absence of sight or the absence of sound but an abundance of nothing. Just...nothing. But yes, it is 'the end'

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I can explain it in a simple way, the body is not the person, it is just a body, when you die who you are no longer exists, only a body and that body is not who you were, who you were no longer exists, the body is just a mass of lifeless proteans and chemicals.


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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 10 Jan 2004
Notes left: 445
Last seen at: Ontario, Canada
Harry'sGirl wrote:
Listen,Bio.People around here tend to take something you say seriously,so hang back for a while and once your post gets up,people will respect you move and wont jump on you.A big thing in the forum is not to jump on people.Just keep that in mind while your on here.

A good thing can be atrubited to anything you want it to be.God ,angles ,the devil.whatever.That is why I have a good idea.Ideas are easy to change,belifes aren't.That is why I don't catorgorize myself with any religion.

I believe the whole,if you will it with your mind it will happen,but isn't this exactly what magick is.Willing something and it happening?


Yeah, Alistar crowely went on about that, but after enough going into it, it seems to be either this definition,1-making something happen according to what your will is, 2- making something happen according to what your will is with magick.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 15 Jan 2005
Notes left: 7376
Last seen at: Couldn't tell you even if I tired
Quote:
Yeah, Alistar crowely went on about that, but after enough going into it, it seems to be either this definition,1-making something happen according to what your will is, 2- making something happen according to what your will is with magick.

:? ?

I am not saying that if you ssat there and said"I wish my neighbor's dog would die." and then the next day the dog runs out in fornt of a car and is killed, that you did that.For a person of deep fiath,they would believe that they did do it.

To me, there if a very BIG bold line between faith and coincedence.That is just how my mind works.

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Subway Guard
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Missing since: 16 Nov 2005
Notes left: 1748
Last seen at: Southeast of Greenwich...somewhere sandy.
I see aspects of a few religions in the series though
aspects and inserts of Judaeism/Kabbalah seem
most dominant. For instance Flauros is a demon
in the form of a leopard with flaming eyes. Will
give true answers to anything Present, past, or future
if commanded in a triangle, hence the pyramid
shape of the Flauros in SH1. :shock:

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 15 Jan 2005
Notes left: 7376
Last seen at: Couldn't tell you even if I tired
I didn't know that.^ :roll: Hm?!

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You didn't? That's like, really old.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 15 Jan 2005
Notes left: 7376
Last seen at: Couldn't tell you even if I tired
Quote:
You didn't? That's like, really old.

I am lame and young and stupid,so I didn't know that.Plus I am blonde! :mrgreen:

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The war has begun:
Use your voice today before you no longer have one tomorrow.
World Toilet Organization
I'm like a circle, I'M TOO GOOD FOR CORNERS!!!


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Subway Guard
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Missing since: 16 Nov 2005
Notes left: 1748
Last seen at: Southeast of Greenwich...somewhere sandy.
Honestly though, It was wothless info. Just a simple pointless fact about
SH1. Of course tyhis was all petaining to the original question.
I jumped in a little late. Uhh...my caps lock is not stuck on the
on position anymore.YES!!!!!!

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"No more soul to sell, 31 years and on my way to Hell".


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 15 Jan 2005
Notes left: 7376
Last seen at: Couldn't tell you even if I tired
^ :shock:





HUH?!

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The war has begun:
Use your voice today before you no longer have one tomorrow.
World Toilet Organization
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The God that Dalhia, Claudia and Vincent are talking about, struck me a lot as the concept of God that the fundamentalists of the Abrahamic religions believe in.

There are some elements of other religions&cults here and there, but it mainy brought an authoritarian enemy of anarchy and darkness Jehovah/Christ/Allah in mind.
In my opinion.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 15 Jan 2005
Notes left: 7376
Last seen at: Couldn't tell you even if I tired
Quote:
There are some elements of other religions&cults here and there, but it mainy brought an authoritarian enemy of anarchy and darkness Jehovah/Christ/Allah in mind.

Yeah,I agree with ya.

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The war has begun:
Use your voice today before you no longer have one tomorrow.
World Toilet Organization
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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 22 Jan 2007
Notes left: 338
Last seen at: Kobe, Japan
Biomechanical wrote:
The cult of silent hill worships the "old gods" these gods are most likely to be fallen angels.

There are stories told in hebrew and christian teachings (which may or may not actually be in the kaballah/old testament) that tells of a group of renegade angels, who rebel against God in anger, because they wish to also be worshipped, but God decrees that he is the one and only almighty God. these angels are defeated and cast out of heaven. Some stories tell of angels being sent to hell where they rule as high ranking demons, and their leader is the devil. other stories tell of the fallen angels mating with human females to create the Nephilim giants.

Sorry to resurrect another old thread like this, but I thought this part of the conversation was interesting.

A lot of these apocryphal (meaning non-gospel) stories come from the Dead Sea Scrolls, and this particular mythology was used as the basis for Neon Genesis Evangelion.

Both Evangelion and Silent Hill also make reference to kaballah, with notions of secret knowledge of the true name/form of God.

And yeah, Satan started out as one of God's favourite angels (Lucifer). But then he got too big for his britches and tried to start a war in Heaven and was booted out. Hence the saying "pride comes before a fall".


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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19397
Last seen at: #lfk
>Satan started out as one of God's favourite angels (Lucifer).
False. Ha-Satan is not Lucifer. The true name of The Adversary is Samael, the poison of God. Lucifer has been erroneously equated with Nebuchadnezzar. The line in the Bible from which the misinformation stems is: "How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, you who weakened the nations!" This is in actuality referencing the King of Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar.

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 22 Jan 2007
Notes left: 338
Last seen at: Kobe, Japan
St. Thomas wrote:
>Satan started out as one of God's favourite angels (Lucifer).
False. Ha-Satan is not Lucifer. The true name of The Adversary is Samael, the poison of God. Lucifer has been erroneously equated with Nebuchadnezzar. The line in the Bible from which the misinformation stems is: "How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, you who weakened the nations!" This is in actuality referencing the King of Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar.

I see. Thanks for setting me straight on that point. Probably a common misconception.

Lucifer and Satan have a lot in common though, as they both opposed God and acted to spite Him.

And that saying about pride is a reference to Lucifer's fall from grace.


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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19397
Last seen at: #lfk
See, you've missed it. The saying would be more applicable to Samael, since Lucifer, as a fallen angel, isn't at all important in angel/demonology. Think of it this way: Anything you've learned about Lucifer was probably meant to be attributed to Samael. End of story.

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 22 Jan 2007
Notes left: 338
Last seen at: Kobe, Japan
St. Thomas wrote:
See, you've missed it. The saying would be more applicable to Samael, since Lucifer, as a fallen angel, isn't at all important in angel/demonology. Think of it this way: Anything you've learned about Lucifer was probably meant to be attributed to Samael. End of story.

Sorry, but I think you may have missed it.

Samael chose to descend from Heaven. In the Jewish tradition, this is part of his function as Angel of Death (or God's wrath).

Have a read (Ctrl-Fing "Samael" will speed things up)...
http://www.steliart.com/angelology_fall ... angel.html
http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/zdm/zdm025.htm
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view. ... 4&letter=F

And here are a couple relating directly to Lucifer's exile from Heaven and that saying...
http://www.the-tribulation-network.com/ ... fallen.htm
http://www.freshbread.net/ten-traps.html

If we want to get really specific, "pride comes/goes before a fall" is a modern adaptation of "Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall." Proverbs 16:18

The passage doesn't make mention of any fallen angel. It's just a sermonising passage warning Christians to come before God in full humility. But as you can see from the above links, the connection is often made between this proverb and the story of Lucifer. He is the first fallen angel, and hence the key paradigm given in relation to the proverb.


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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
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Last seen at: #lfk
Except that Samael is the first fallen angel, not Lucifer. Online resources aren't reliable, especially when it comes to angelology. I've done the research. For years. Using books.

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 22 Jan 2007
Notes left: 338
Last seen at: Kobe, Japan
St. Thomas wrote:
I've done the research. For years. Using books.

Well, so have I. Even submitted the results of that research as assessment tasks for university courses. Got good grades for them, too.

I'd like it if you could give us some evidence to support your claims though. That would actually enrich the discussion. Even "unreliable" web resources, since we are having this conversation in an online forum.


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