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Brookhaven Receptionist
 Post subject: Re: Are you disappointed with the newest Silent Hills?
     
         
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Missing since: 02 May 2010
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AuraTwilight wrote:
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a remake that misses the point of the original, doesn't quite live up to its ancestor, and whose main selling factor is opportunizing on fans nostalgia for profit (Shattered Memories).


Pardon me, WHAT?


You heard me.

Don't get me wrong--if it wasn't a Silent Hill game, and you changed a couple names of people and places, y'know, if it was just Shattered Memories, then yeah, it'd be nice. HOWEVER, when considered the reimagining of the original masterpiece, it just doesn't live up to what I hoped. It's almost like they made just another horror game, then slapped "Silent Hill" on it. It disappointed me. I can't help how I feel about it--I just don't like it. :/

And Yuki, I didn't say it was american-made, I said it was made in the american-horror style, which is fine, but doesn't mesh with SH, I think.

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Moderator
 Post subject: Re: Are you disappointed with the newest Silent Hills?
     
         
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Missing since: 15 Apr 2004
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What the hell is American Horror, besides what makes the Fox News channel stay in business?

Of course, I know what the answer is supposed to be. "Japanese" horror is cerebral and psychological, "American" horror is gore and jump scares.

So, while we're making silly generalizations, we can point out that Shattered Memories isn't really horror at all. It's a story with horror elements. And, people who think it misses the point of the original are, themselves, missing the point. Shattered Memories references the original only enough to subvert the veteran player's expectations. It does not attempt to re-tell the story or in any way replace it.

There are legitimate reasons to dislike it, it's not for everybody. But, a lot of people seem to dislike it because they think it is trying to be another Silent Hill 1, which is a completely artificial criticism because Shattered Memories shares only the premise and character archetypes with it. The actual story, and its implications, are entirely different and never pretend not to be.

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Are you disappointed with the newest Silent Hills?

Missing since: 05 Jul 2009
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A lot of people, including me, think that the newer Silent Hills have all had some gimmick, and have been experimenting with trying to change what the series is.

But when you think about it, every game in the Silent Hill series has been pretty experimental, with the possible exception of 3.

SH1 - Fog to deal with draw distance, Harry can 'miss' at range even when locked on. Full 3d rather than Resident Evil's 3d on 2d backgrounds. At the time it was really pushing the PSX hardware. Much more serious tone overall than Resident Evil. Also, I'm not sure if this was the first visually represented flashlight beam in a survival horror game, but I'm sure it was the first really good effort at it.

SH2 - endings based on certain aspects of player behavior. Escort portions. Deliberate long stretches of emptiness, deliberately annoying combat in some sections, in my opinion. A lot more effort at storytelling through notes and graffiti, rather than just using them as scenery. Monster design based on characters' issues. Town based on characters' issues. More Mature and cerebral themes, compared to 1.

SH3 - about all I can think of is the strong emphasis on a vocal soundtrack. And an unusually well-rounded female protagonist in an industry beset by stereotypes. 3 is in my opinion the least innovative, but I might have forgotten something.

SH4 - Hub, first person, unkillables pinned to the floor, 'worlds,' peepholes, easter eggs, jump scares, phone calls, teasing us with continuity, and much much more. It's the weirdest one.

And these are the Team Silent classics! Honestly, I think these games have always been about changing it up and trying something different. It's just more contentious with the new ones. For my part I've liked things in every one of the newer games, even though some weren't great experiences overall.


Last edited by Super Tuesday on 22 Sep 2011, edited 1 time in total.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Are you disappointed with the newest Silent Hills?
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Oct 2009
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WelcomeToNowhere wrote:
And Yuki, I didn't say it was american-made, I said it was made in the american-horror style, which is fine, but doesn't mesh with SH, I think.


Quote:
Now that Vatra Games has moved in as leading developer, as a European game company, the series might get the flavor back it's been missing for the last several games, since (being neither american nor japanese) it won't be overwhelmed by one horror-style or another. Who knows, maybe it'll be the next SH2! :3


You pretty much did.


Anyway, alone in the town pretty much said what I wanted to say, but more eloquently. Thanks.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Are you disappointed with the newest Silent Hills?
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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There are legitimate reasons to dislike it, it's not for everybody. But, a lot of people seem to dislike it because they think it is trying to be another Silent Hill 1, which is a completely artificial criticism because Shattered Memories shares only the premise and character archetypes with it. The actual story, and its implications, are entirely different and never pretend not to be.


Especially since, as Kenji and I have both argued, Shattered Memories can probably best be seen as a thematic, spiritual sequel to SH1/SH3, even if not a sequel in continuity, because it is specifically aimed at people familiar with the Alessa storyline and the emotions tied into it. Comparing Shattered Memories to SH1, or acting as if Shattered Memories is a Silent Hill "in name only" might as well be equivalent to admitting you never played the game with critical thinking.

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Brookhaven Receptionist
 Post subject: Re: Are you disappointed with the newest Silent Hills?
     
         
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Missing since: 02 May 2010
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AuraTwilight wrote:
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There are legitimate reasons to dislike it, it's not for everybody. But, a lot of people seem to dislike it because they think it is trying to be another Silent Hill 1, which is a completely artificial criticism because Shattered Memories shares only the premise and character archetypes with it. The actual story, and its implications, are entirely different and never pretend not to be.


Especially since, as Kenji and I have both argued, Shattered Memories can probably best be seen as a thematic, spiritual sequel to SH1/SH3, even if not a sequel in continuity, because it is specifically aimed at people familiar with the Alessa storyline and the emotions tied into it. Comparing Shattered Memories to SH1, or acting as if Shattered Memories is a Silent Hill "in name only" might as well be equivalent to admitting you never played the game with critical thinking.


Fair enough. I'll admit, I am rather biased against SHSM because it seemed (to me) that it was trying to be something it could never hope to be--a better SH1. Even though I KNOW that's not true, I just can't help thinking that way. SH1 was the first Silent Hill game I ever played, and it's undoubtedly my favorite, so maybe i'm holding Shattered Memories to an overly-high standard. Mea culpa.

But I think I can speak for most of us when I say, rather unbiasedly, that Homecoming was a bitter disappointment. :/

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Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject: Re: Are you disappointed with the newest Silent Hills?
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Oct 2010
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I agree with you about SM, but for different reasons... to me, SH1 was the most revolutionary horror game ever made, and has still yet to be topped by anything except arguably SH2. So SM, while perhaps meant to be a spiritual sequel, (which I think it fails badly at) is a terrible follow up just because it's such a failure at being a horror game. And therefore, at least to me, it really missed the point of what a Silent Hill game is supposed to be.

There is a lot of good American horror though. Most of it is older stuff, I agree that modern horror movies are pretty weak...

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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: Are you disappointed with the newest Silent Hills?

Missing since: 20 Jun 2010
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WelcomeToNowhere wrote:
I'll admit, I am rather biased against SHSM because it seemed (to me) that it was trying to be something it could never hope to be--a better SH1. Even though I KNOW that's not true, I just can't help thinking that way. SH1 was the first Silent Hill game I ever played, and it's undoubtedly my favorite, so maybe i'm holding Shattered Memories to an overly-high standard. Mea culpa.

SH1 was my first as well, and it is still my favourite, but I still don't get why people say SM is a crap SH game because it's not an exact whatever to SH1. I didn't get the impression that SM was trying to be a better anything to anything either. To me, SM was merely a "what if" when it comes to the characters and so forth. What if the cult and supernatural elements weren't involved? What if things had gone differently? What if Harry's/Cheryl's lives had been different? I think a lot of the criticism mostly comes from the fact that names and so on where reused from SH1, and as a result some people got their wires crossed and were expecting something different.

Tillerman wrote:
I agree with you about SM, but for different reasons... to me, SH1 was the most revolutionary horror game ever made, and has still yet to be topped by anything except arguably SH2. So SM, while perhaps meant to be a spiritual sequel, (which I think it fails badly at) is a terrible follow up just because it's such a failure at being a horror game. And therefore, at least to me, it really missed the point of what a Silent Hill game is supposed to be.

I think SM is less of a horror game and more of a psychological journey. It's really not that scary, and I don't recall seeing much, if any, blood (other than Lisa's head wound). I think it focuses more on emotions than it does horror elements. Sure, SH1 had emotion with Harry's quest to find Cheryl, but it also had a lot more horror elements than SM. But I agree, SH1 was a great game for its time. Nothing I've played since has been able to re-create the feelings of awe and dread I had when playing. Either it could be because there's been very little innovation and originality lately, or I could just be jaded/getting old.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Are you disappointed with the newest Silent Hills?
     
         
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Soulless-Shadow wrote:
I think a lot of the criticism mostly comes from the fact that names and so on where reused from SH1, and as a result some people got their wires crossed and were expecting something different.

Well, and a lot of people don't feel it really fits the bill as a silent hill game because of things like the lack of any kind of combat, the really intense visuals being absent, and the weak "puzzles." I admit, there's a lot that keeps it from resembling a silent hill game on the surface, but I think it more closely resembles a silent hill thematically and with characters than homecoming or origins does.


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 Post subject: Re: Are you disappointed with the newest Silent Hills?
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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I just find it ironic that people in this fandom hail the storyline of the franchise as the best part of it that makes it really stand out from other horror franchises, but those same people will bag on one of the most powerful narratives in the series because it wasn't an exact remake or it didn't fit a certain gameplay formula.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Are you disappointed with the newest Silent Hills?
     
         
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People instinctively know what they want, but often can't put their finger on exactly what it is. If anything, this means that story doesn't mean as much as the fanbase claims it does.

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SHH Cult Subscriber
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 Post subject: Re: Are you disappointed with the newest Silent Hills?

Missing since: 26 Apr 2009
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To be fair, they can still want a storybased-SH game and just not like the story in SM. So, just because they didn't like SM doesn't mean story isn't really all that important to them, it just means they didn't like THAT particular story.

Of course, what is ridiculous are the people who still to this day complain about SM because it wasn't an exact remake of SH1, when it had been known since the day it was announced that it wouldn't be. What exactly did people go into SM expecting?


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Are you disappointed with the newest Silent Hills?
     
         
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Missing since: 28 Mar 2006
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Not really. I thought SH4 was awesome. I have learned to accept the new changes in the franchise. This changes have happen to a lot of other franchises like RE. I always enjoy the games for what they are. I thought Homecoming was scarier then dead space 2 or bioshock. Yet, I have seen a lot of people think, or say otherwise. I'm looking forward to Downpour and The HD collection. I will be buying both because I have been a SH fan since day one. The new voices don't really bother me, and I think they did I good job with it.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Are you disappointed with the newest Silent Hills?
     
         
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NanayaShiki wrote:
To be fair, they can still want a storybased-SH game and just not like the story in SM. So, just because they didn't like SM doesn't mean story isn't really all that important to them, it just means they didn't like THAT particular story.

Of course, what is ridiculous are the people who still to this day complain about SM because it wasn't an exact remake of SH1, when it had been known since the day it was announced that it wouldn't be. What exactly did people go into SM expecting?


I agree with this, but with one caveat: the people who dislike SM's story because it "has no depth" clearly didn't look hard enough, in my opinion. Disliking it is one thing, but without a valid reason...

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Woodside Apartments Janitor
 Post subject: Re: Are you disappointed with the newest Silent Hills?
     
         
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The story itself was good, the way it was structured and the symbolism throughout refreshed the series a bit, but then we have the otherworld segments that just wasn't done particularily well.

The game was ok, but i still find myself preferring the older games over this...with SH2, the story was great, the characters were truly weird and unique, and the otherworlds were terrifyingly beautiful and abstract....

SM to me as with all of the newer games, just felt a bit like a watered down experience...whereas with the older games you got a great storyline,interesting characters and horrific and disturbing otherworlds...you pretty much got the full package.


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Brookhaven Receptionist
 Post subject: Re: Are you disappointed with the newest Silent Hills?
     
         
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Missing since: 02 May 2010
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The other thing that irked me about Shattered Memories was, you have no inventory, no items. (I don't count the weird baubles) I miss the ability to pull out a health drink and fix myself, or examine my map without getting mauled by THINGS, or be able to keep my emergency flares in my pocket until I need them. I miss being able to hoard my shit. :C

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 Post subject: Re: Are you disappointed with the newest Silent Hills?
     
         
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If you fullscreen the map, it pauses the game, so the Raw Shocks won't get you.

I was also annoyed that you can't hoard Emergency Flares, but doing so would kind of break the game, lol. Your health regenerates automatically so health drinks are useless, though.

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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Are you disappointed with the newest Silent Hills?
     
         
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Missing since: 05 Aug 2010
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Ahhh.. Where are the times when you could stuff 3 portable TVs and a toaster in your back pocket. I miss those moments.
However, in practice- Harry still keeps the box with mementos in his underwears, right?

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Historical Society Historian
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Probably. Or they cease existing what with his being a construct.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Brookhaven Receptionist
 Post subject: Re: Are you disappointed with the newest Silent Hills?
     
         
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AuraTwilight wrote:
Probably. Or they cease existing what with his being a construct.


MAYBE HE'S A WIZARD!!!

OR MAYBE--oh, whoops, capslock--or maybe, they never existed in the first place. I mean, if a whole slew of characters can be imaginary, then why not a box full of crap? :mrgreen:

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