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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: kojima hinting silent-hill-game
     
         
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Missing since: 19 May 2009
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While I don't agree with Droo's statement that Team Silent never existed, he's right.
They are gone and probably aren't even interested in returning.
Also, the fact that the old guys were not consulted for the new games is probably because either Konami or Team Silent members themselves didn't care enough.
Probably both.

But, I'm certain that SH4's director Suguru Murakoshi is still a part of Kojima Productions so. . .

Anyway.
Kojima seems to be interested in the atmosphere part of Silent Hill and that's great.
Atmosphere, to me, is what made Silent Hill what it is.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: kojima hinting silent-hill-game
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Feb 2009
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So it is true, huh.

I just hope it doesn't turn into another Lords of Shadow...

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Moderator
 Post subject: Re: kojima hinting silent-hill-game
     
         
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Missing since: 21 Jul 2003
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On the plus side, this means the franchise isn't as dead as I thought it was following Downpour, the HD Collection, and Book of Memories.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: kojima hinting silent-hill-game

Missing since: 04 Mar 2007
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Droo wrote:
Because the inherent storytelling flaws that abound in MGS show he is a sloppy writer. I'm not saying he'd do it exactly the same as MGS. I'm saying he is a poor writer.


While this is true, it's more the result of MGS3 and MGS4. MGS1 and 2 are masterpieces in my opinion, and to Kojima's credit he wanted to quit while he was ahead. But as we've seen as recently as RISING, Konami is staffed by a whole bunch of inexperienced people who can't operate without Kojima at the head. And besides which, Kojima isn't the only writer on them. While the main story outlines are always him, a lot is left up to collaborating writers like Shuyo Murata, Etsu Tamari, Gakuto Mikumo, Tomokazu Fukushima. So inconsistencies, especially given these are games that demand a considerable amount of material in excess from books or movies, inconsistencies are more than likely, but even these are minimal (or rather so entrenched in lore that they'd only be noticed by the really hardcore fans). Peace Walker by contrast as the latest project, is the most straightforward one out of all of them.

That's not touching upon several other Kojima produced titles like Boktai, Luna Knights, Zone of the Enders, all Kojima produced without any of the 'issues' people take with Metal Gear Solid. According to Kojima himself, he's never been treating Metal Gear with total seriousness despite the serious tones and subject matter, if there's opportunity to mess with the story to serve game play needs, or sometimes just to be funny, then the story will be changed to suit the game play scenario even if that means the story becomes unnecessarily lengthened or convoluted. He's a game play first / story second guy, despite how it looks. And the Japanese generally tend to not be so turned off by lengthy adventure novel type stories and dialogue and RPG length cutscenes like people in the West are. Going by Peace Walker, the story was shorter, game play lengthened, and the actual heavy story content and thematic material was relegated to lengthy but optional briefing tapes for those that wanted it, and was very well written and interesting to listen to, so Kojima is showing that he's open to catering more to that approach. He truly adjusts to criticism.

Anyway, Silent Hill will undoubtedly be written and directed by someone else, with Kojima at least supervising and offering input on game play and the scary stuff, so from that standpoint I don't think there's anything to worry about. Frankly I'm greatly excited to see what a Silent Hill game done by Kojima Productions can accomplish. I'm certain that even if outsourced, Kojima will pick a cool studio to collaborate with, though I believe Konami wants this one internal, so maybe chances are good Kojima will go out of his way to assemble a great new team likely even trying to get the remaining old members of Team Silent back on board if he can.

Though I worry that there's not that much time in this generation to see another game put together in time... The longer it takes the more likely it will end up a next gen project... Kojima already has Ground Zeroes, RISING, ZOE3 and Project Ogre to worry about on top of getting the FOX Engine finalized for expanded company-wide use... But maybe if the new movie is successful it will accelerate something to happen? One can hope!


Quote:
Also, the fact that the old guys were not consulted for the new games is probably because either Konami or Team Silent members themselves didn't care enough.
Probably both.


I don't know... weren't some of the old SH4 team getting together to do Silent Hill 5 in the early days of the PS3/360? Wasn't there some word that ÅŒwaku would potentially come back to do SH5 as it was known then? But then the project was outsourced overseas due to a Konami decision to broaden its western appeal by using a western developer? I remember the early time where they were working on a game that would scare people in broad daylight and other concepts.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/news170804silenthill5
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/11/27/silen ... ah-its-on/
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/12/26/silen ... re-tactic/

I think it's possible some of the old team might be interested in returning...


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SHH Cult Subscriber
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 Post subject: Re: kojima hinting silent-hill-game

Missing since: 26 Apr 2009
Notes left: 3219
If he does, I just pray that Tomm Hulett is still active in the development to keep him, let's say, "in check" with what he does with it.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: kojima hinting silent-hill-game
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Jun 2008
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I'll take a Kojima-penned Silent Hill game. Maybe it'll make me really like the series again, something I've stopped doing since 2002. Though I kinda do want to play Shattered Memories.

And yes, I like Kojima's writing; a lot of the "poor" writing comes from a poor localization, which isn't really Kojima's fault. The only real problem I have with his games is the amount of long cutscenes. By now (actually, by a long time ago, but let's say for argument's sake by NOW) you shouldn't need a single cutscene for virtually any of today's games.

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My Bestsellers Clerk
 Post subject: Re: kojima hinting silent-hill-game
     
         
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Missing since: 24 Nov 2011
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It's nice to see him admit he wouldn't be the proper person for the job because he frankly isn't. He and his team aren't the right people you would want writing a Silent Hill story.

PoemOfTheLastMoment wrote:
i havent said anything that you've just mentioned. And even if i did, why does that idea bother you so much? At least the new[possible] japanese team will have an easier time consulting the original team [the magic word is 'consulting'] than the western teams ever could. This is evident when you realize no one other than Yamaoka was consulted when making these new games.
And how do you know they would bother consulting the original team in the first place? We don't need his influence. He's not going to work on Silent Hill and he shouldn't anyway. He's too shackled with Ground Zeroes, MGS5, and Project Ogre. Even if he wanted to, he won't be free to oversee a project actively for quite some time.

He's just going to lend out the FOX engine to other divisions of Konami. That's all. And that's all Kojima Productions needs to do because it would be stupid if only they were allowed to use the engine.

The guy is terrible writer anyway as MGS4 and Peace Walker have aptly shown.

PoemOfTheLastMoment wrote:
Wow! just wow! all we need now is anew japanese development that can consult with members of team silent!

Seriously, don't be so simple minded.

OH MY GOD! HIDEO KOJIMA! HE'S JAPANESE AND HE WORKED ON METAL GEAR WHICH HAD TEH BESTESTSTESTEST STOYR EVAR!! SERIES SAVED!!!

Yeah, no. Let's be realistic here.

Mephisto wrote:
So it is true, huh.

I just hope it doesn't turn into another Lords of Shadow...

No, it's not true and I can already see this spreading throughout the fanbase as it being "confirmed" that he's really working on a SH game. He's not. He's too preoccupied with his own projects.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: kojima hinting silent-hill-game

Missing since: 22 Nov 2007
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Last seen at: Wouldn't you like to know. ;D
I'm with Bishop here. I enjoy the story lines that Kojima brings to the table. MGS 3: Snake Eater has one of my very favorite plots within the gaming medium. His take on the Cold War and its effects on the advancement of military technology as a whole were interesting, and his overall designs on geopolitics, war, and history are fun to examine.


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Brookhaven Receptionist
 Post subject: Re: kojima hinting silent-hill-game
     
         
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Missing since: 05 Nov 2010
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He could be involved to make sure the Fox engine is fully optimized (if Silent Hill Next uses the Fox engine).

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: kojima hinting silent-hill-game

Missing since: 05 Aug 2012
Notes left: 120
Augophthalmoses wrote:
The guy is terrible writer anyway as MGS4 and Peace Walker have aptly shown.

I find this kinda amusing, because it immediately raises the assumption that Silent Hill so far had constantly good writing.
While I love the SH plots (minus some flaws that became apparent as the series went on) it profits from each game existing in a loose continuity, with only minor events connecting the individual plots. The only game that directly connected itself is actually one that not even "Team Silent" (or rather individual members) don't even seem to agree about; the SH4 team apparently somehow assumed that it starts 12 years after SH1.

Also the only games within the SH series that people largely agree on to have "great writing" are SH2 and 4.
SH1 is fun but has a a meta-referential B-movie feel to it, SH3 has nice topics but nothing much happens, SH5 is way to confused on what it really wants to achieve, Origins overdid it with two major plotlines and Downpour feels kind of unfinished with everything but Murphys dilemma kept dangling in the air.

I would actually really like to get a writer with a completely different style on the series who pushes his ideas through. The biggest problem I see with the current Silent Hill games is, that they change the wrong things, which is interpreting the mythology however they please, in order to stick to a certain narrative formula that has been emulated by SH Origins, Homecoming and Downpour by now.
I would love to get something weird like the mystical murder mystery of SH4 again.


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My Bestsellers Clerk
 Post subject: Re: kojima hinting silent-hill-game
     
         
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Missing since: 24 Nov 2011
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I didn't say the Silent Hill series didn't have its share of bad writing, but Kojima wouldn't exactly do anything to counteract that either.


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SHH Cult Subscriber
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 Post subject: Re: kojima hinting silent-hill-game

Missing since: 26 Apr 2009
Notes left: 3219
I think Kojima is a decent enough writer when he's doing his own thing within the genre that he works best in. Even he admits he's not the right person for the job. I mean, I love Doctor Who, but I don't exactly want Steven Moffat writing the story for Persona 5. Nor would I want Team Persona writing Doctor Who. Good at one thing doesn't make you good at every thing.

I'd be willing to entertain a Kojima Silent Hill if it included the people who have been working on the series in the past few years. If they worked together and played off of each other's strengths, maybe something interesting could come from it. But I'd rather we just continue as we have been, given that Shattered Memories and Downpour were both fantastic.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Kojima? Kojima?! KOOOJIIIMAAAAA?!
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Jun 2009
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unreadphilosophy wrote:
I'm with Bishop here. I enjoy the story lines that Kojima brings to the table. MGS 3: Snake Eater has one of my very favorite plots within the gaming medium. His take on the Cold War and its effects on the advancement of military technology as a whole were interesting, and his overall designs on geopolitics, war, and history are fun to examine.


I agree with this as well. However i don't see his style translating well to a silent hill game at all. I really can't get too excited about him making a silent hill game.

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Woodside Apartments Janitor
 Post subject: Re: kojima hinting silent-hill-game
     
         
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Missing since: 21 May 2010
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At the very least, it would be great to have a AAA quality SH game in terms of visuals. I thought Vatra created some decent atmosphere in Downpour, so i think kojima can just lend the fox engine to konami while they implement a team together to create the next game...

Vatra- Atmosphere
Ito - Creature designs

Akira - Soundtrack

Climax - possible story aspects

For environments and otherworlds, i'd say just hire or screen some really amazing artists to craft the otherworld segments and town of SH


The SH series has always trumped the RE in terms of storylines and atmosphere, but konami has an opportunity to create a visually stunning SH game that can be on par or surpass RE's offering. I think a true AAA showing would bring SH back into the mainstream....


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: kojima hinting silent-hill-game

Missing since: 05 Aug 2012
Notes left: 120
clips wrote:
Climax - possible story aspects
[...]
The SH series has always trumped the RE in terms of storylines and atmosphere,

I wouldn't generalize that, especially because RE and SH went for two very different approaches towards the very vague survival horror genre. You could basically argue if SH counts as survival horror at all, regarding the genre's initial definition.
Also I'd say that storywise RE was never that bad, it was just corny. Sure it lacked the aspect of symbolism and plot actually being interwoven, but you could say the same when comparing Xenosaga and Final Fantasy. I would take RE2's plot about that of Homecoming any day.

I don't see Climax having handed out anything that strong that warrants them a position like like that either. The plots of their games had potential, but also often showed a definitive lack when it came to tactical writing and making less count for more.
Their writing often reminds me of Platinum Dunes remakes. Not technically BAD, actually quite entertaining in some areas, but just lacking that certain touch that elevated it above. Maybe they're just trying too hard.

Augophthalmoses wrote:
I didn't say the Silent Hill series didn't have its share of bad writing, but Kojima wouldn't exactly do anything to counteract that either.

I wouldn't say that. Kojima's writing on the Snatcher series was pretty solid and the Metal Gear series suffered more from it's runtime and it's connection to current events which forced certain elements to be retconned yet and again.
Also, as many people said, it's nowhere clear that he would write this installment either. Outside the MG and Snatcher franchises (which basically would have been one continuity anyway) he has primarily worked as a producer and director, so there's enough room to let some fresh faces into the writing department.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: kojima hinting silent-hill-game
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Feb 2009
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Kojipro proved that they can make a good and tense atmosphere with MGS3 but that's it. Quite frankly, the whole team still needs to prove more. That they can really work on a horror game, you know.

Yep, when I say Kojipro I really mean it. I don't think Kojima would go alone to work on the next SH game, he would sure as Hell move with his pack. Maybe not with the entire group but with the key members.

As long as he doesn't touch the story it's fine. I really like MGS' story but what they did with Castlevania LoS' story, with the advices from Kojima himself, was really stupid. Until the end of the game, that is. The next title looks promising...

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: kojima hinting silent-hill-game

Missing since: 05 Aug 2012
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Mephisto wrote:
As long as he doesn't touch the story it's fine. I really like MGS' story but what they did with Castlevania LoS' story, with the advices from Kojima himself, was really stupid. Until the end of the game, that is. The next title looks promising...

Shows how opinions can differ on those things. I liked what they tried with Castlevania LoS, though I'm of course still sad if this actually means we will never see a conclusion to the old continuity, until the final part.
It had a simple three act structure (no I'm not counting the DLC), with the first two Lords serving as good turning points. The first act was good in putting the stakes high, the second act saw continuously rising opposition...and then they somehow decided to throw everything out of the window at the point of crisis and basically pull a bunny from a top-hat.

Though I'd say that Shattered Memories had a similar problem, due to never really entering a second act and prolonging the first so far that it literally fell right into the third.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: kojima hinting silent-hill-game
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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Quote:
Though I'd say that Shattered Memories had a similar problem, due to never really entering a second act and prolonging the first so far that it literally fell right into the third.


What in the hell are you talking about? Shattered Memories has a very clearly defined three act structure, both transitions of which are marked by the presence of Dahlia.

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Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject: Re: kojima hinting silent-hill-game
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Oct 2010
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Kojima is capable of good writing, MGS3 still has one of the best stories of any game ever made. I think it's a valid question as to whether his style is right for Silent Hill, but I think it's silly to assume that he would make it in exactly the same style as a Metal Gear game. I trust that he would at least try to do something different with it.

The only problem I have with Kojima is that even his good stuff tends to be overwritten, and the Silent Hill games with the best stories are the ones that are underwritten (Silent Hill 1, 2 and 4.) But even so, I'd love for Kojima to do the next game because it's the only possible chance I can see for Silent Hill to be revived to what it once was.

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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: kojima hinting silent-hill-game
     
         
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Missing since: 30 Jul 2011
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I could sort of see Kojima writing a SH story as his stories contain a lot of mystery, unexpected plot twists, and he focuses on atmosphere and dialogue. He would also bring life back to Silent Hill and I don't think he would release a technically deficient game.

At the same time, I feel like he should either just write one SH story (so the possibility of mass confusion and ridiculousness could be avoided) or just lend a hand to the story and not be the main guy for that.

Even with all the pluses and minuses I think the best thing to get Silent Hill back in the hands of gamers is to have Kojima involved with it.


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