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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Inconsistencies of the "alternate realities" explanation
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Feb 2009
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I thought Eddie found the pizza BEFORE going to Silent Hill. What was it? He managed to hide it in his pants or something...?

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SHH Cult Subscriber
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 Post subject: Re: Inconsistencies of the "alternate realities" explanation

Missing since: 26 Apr 2009
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Once again, it seems a core issue here is that people come into this conversation with preconceived notions of what the terms "alternate reality" and "multiple dimensions" mean. I mean, there's a lot of other things wrong with some of these long posts, but others are doing well enough jobs responding to those. I just think this whole thing would be easier if people stopped getting so caught up in the terminology.

Also, side-note on the pizza, Eddie is constantly reminded of his problems within the town like most people who go there. Those problems being what he did, who he did it to, and why he did it. Him being overweight plays a heavy role in that, and him finding pizza is no different from James finding a flashlight on a manikin wearing his wife's clothes.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: Inconsistencies of the "alternate realities" explanation
     
         
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Missing since: 08 Aug 2012
Notes left: 191
I think people are getting a little bit too technical. I mean, this tread's about two thing we'll probably never understand: The town's power and human psyche.
In Silent Hill, sometimes, people see the same thing in different ways. Specially if each one has one's own otherworld. Like when Angela confused James with her mother, or that note early in SH2 about a guy who saw monsters where his friend saw nothing.

And the Otherworld in SH4 is very, very differed from the Otherworld from the other games.

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Inconsistencies of the "alternate realities" explanation

Missing since: 20 Oct 2012
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The Otherworld is different in each of the games so I don't see why people single out SH4 for it.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Inconsistencies of the "alternate realities" explanation
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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SH4 is singled out because the story specifically calls it out as being metaphysically different from Silent Hill's. One is a power built on Silent Hill's power and manifests the inner worlds of countless people who pass through it,and the other is a world deliberately built by Walter alone, outside of Silent Hill's powers and following HIS rules. It's a world 'separate from our Lord.'

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Inconsistencies of the "alternate realities" explanation
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Feb 2009
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By that logic, can you single out Sheperd's Glen too?

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Inconsistencies of the "alternate realities" explanation
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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Not really. It's working on the same principles. Especially since both towns are equally close to Toluca Lake, which is heavily implied to be the real source of the power.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: Inconsistencies of the "alternate realities" explanation
     
         
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Missing since: 08 Aug 2012
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AuraTwilight wrote:
SH4 is singled out because the story specifically calls it out as being metaphysically different from Silent Hill's. One is a power built on Silent Hill's power and manifests the inner worlds of countless people who pass through it,and the other is a world deliberately built by Walter alone, outside of Silent Hill's powers and following HIS rules. It's a world 'separate from our Lord.'


I don't think Walter's worlds is so far or separated from the town's power. There are differences between the worlds, but there's also many things there are similar: Creatures, heavy mist, impossible bizarre scenarios and such. I think it's very similar to Alessa's otherworld, but Walter knew he could control his world to some extent, and Alessa only controlled her manifestations unconsciously.

This also reminds me, during one ending in the fourth game (21 sacraments, I believe) it's said that various residents somewhere in Silent Hill were rushed to the hospital, complaining of "severe chest pain". I think this happened with Alessa during Silent Hill 1, at the Achemilla, since nothing about this was ever said, specially talking about Walter.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Inconsistencies of the "alternate realities" explanation
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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Quote:
I don't think Walter's worlds is so far or separated from the town's power. There are differences between the worlds, but there's also many things there are similar: Creatures, heavy mist, impossible bizarre scenarios and such.


A good point, but bear in mind that Alessa and Walter have similar backrounds, were exposed to the same religion and, as humans, have access to the same collective unconscious.

Quote:
This also reminds me, during one ending in the fourth game (21 sacraments, I believe) it's said that various residents somewhere in Silent Hill were rushed to the hospital, complaining of "severe chest pain". I think this happened with Alessa during Silent Hill 1, at the Achemilla, since nothing about this was ever said, specially talking about Walter.


In SH1's backround, the cult used Alessa's psychic powers to kill people via heart attacks. In the 21 Sacraments ending, Walter has called down his God/Mother entity, and people in South Ashfield Heights (not Silent Hill) had chest pains. The implication I took from it is that Walter was getting rid of people so he could have the building to himself. He doesn't like neighbors.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: Inconsistencies of the "alternate realities" explanation
     
         
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Missing since: 08 Aug 2012
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Wow. Makes sense. But do you believe the 21 sacraments actually worked? Because in the ending Walter looks kinds disappointed.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Inconsistencies of the "alternate realities" explanation
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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What? No he doesn't. He's crawling on the couch and saying he and his mommy will never be separated ever again.

If you're talking about adult Walter, that's a corpse. It doesn't have any feelings or opinions. Henry killed it. :P

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Woodside Apartments Janitor
 Post subject: Re: Inconsistencies of the "alternate realities" explanation
     
         
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Missing since: 15 Aug 2003
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Last seen at: The most extreme and utter region of the human mind.
I did a panel at a convention recently, related to this topic; here's my take on it.

If we were to construct a Venn diagram of how two humans perceive reality, it would be one whole circle representing reality as it actually exists, regardless of what may or may not be perceiving it; inside this circle would be the perception of person A, composed of what that person experiences with their five senses at any given moment, as well as their knowledge and ideas about what their senses tell them. Also inside the big circle would be the perception of person B, with their sensory input and knowledge and thoughts, and the overlap would be the experiences they both share.

Normally, even where these spaces differ, they tend to agree with each other under scrutiny. Physics behave the same way, people share the same five senses, large groups of people communicate ideas with common language, and all of it takes place in a stable reality. There can be subtle differences, though; people understand things based on different belief systems, they have different capacities for sight, hearing, etc., and their memories may differ as details become muddled.

What Silent Hill does, through whatever mechanism we want to call it, is exacerbate these differences to the point where people can experience completely separate things in the same place at the same time. You can call that multiple realities, if you like, although I think of it as internal perceptions mapped onto a shared space, like film projected on a wall, except the effects are much more significant; the implication is that "real" reality is made of much looser stuff than we think, and the "stable" reality normal people experience is only a result of our agreeing on what it is, both instinctively and consciously.

In cases like Alessa and Walter, if we go back to the Venn diagram, one character who has developed the capacity to dominate this perceived reality can be said to inhabit a full circle inside the base "reality" circle, but the other characters still have their separate perceptions inside that smaller circle. This is why Harry can get separated from Cybil, even though both are in Alessa's space.

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“The sinister, the terrible never deceive: the state in which they leave us is always one of enlightenment. And only this condition of vicious insight allows us a full grasp of the world, all things considered, just as a frigid melancholy grants us full possession of ourselves. We may hide from horror only in the heart of horror."
--Thomas Ligotti


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: Inconsistencies of the "alternate realities" explanation
     
         
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Missing since: 08 Aug 2012
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LastGunslinger wrote:
You can call that multiple realities, if you like, although I think of it as internal perceptions mapped onto a shared space, like film projected on a wall, except the effects are much more significant; the implication is that "real" reality is made of much looser stuff than we think, and the "stable" reality normal people experience is only a result of our agreeing on what it is, both instinctively and consciously.


I don't think I could explain this better myself. I have a problem putting thoughts into words, and I think you just said want I always wanted but never found words to do so.

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Inconsistencies of the "alternate realities" explanation
     
         
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Missing since: 31 Mar 2012
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AuraTwilight wrote:
SH4 is singled out because the story specifically calls it out as being metaphysically different from Silent Hill's. One is a power built on Silent Hill's power and manifests the inner worlds of countless people who pass through it,and the other is a world deliberately built by Walter alone, outside of Silent Hill's powers and following HIS rules. It's a world 'separate from our Lord.'





This was exactly what i was going to ask. How this would clash against sh4 and the idea that the cult ? is spreading...


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Woodside Apartments Janitor
 Post subject: Re: Inconsistencies of the "alternate realities" explanation
     
         
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Missing since: 15 Aug 2003
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Last seen at: The most extreme and utter region of the human mind.
If we look at the idea that all of reality is as subjective as it is in Silent Hill, but nobody notices elsewhere, it could stand to reason that people, things or events that are affected by that dissonance of perception could cause similar effects outside of Silent Hill.

So Walter, having grown up in Silent Hill and been raised by the cult, would likely have noticed these effects over a long time, and may have gained the ability to influence other people's perceptions in Ashfield. So what's special about Silent Hill isn't that it has multiple realities; the whole world has the potential for these distortions. Silent Hill is just a sort of hot spot for it.

This would also provide an alternative explanation for stuff happening outside of Silent Hill in SH3, to the "Claudia/Heather has powers" argument..

_________________
“The sinister, the terrible never deceive: the state in which they leave us is always one of enlightenment. And only this condition of vicious insight allows us a full grasp of the world, all things considered, just as a frigid melancholy grants us full possession of ourselves. We may hide from horror only in the heart of horror."
--Thomas Ligotti


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Inconsistencies of the "alternate realities" explanation
     
         
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Missing since: 31 Mar 2012
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I guess that whole White Claudia drug premise was just throwed away by now rite ?


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Woodside Apartments Janitor
 Post subject: Re: Inconsistencies of the "alternate realities" explanation
     
         
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Missing since: 15 Aug 2003
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I wouldn't say that the White Claudia aspect has no bearing; a lot of drug users, including cultures that have used drugs for religious purposes, claim than hallucinogens enhance one's perception of reality rather than impair it. Whether or not that's true in the case of White Claudia, users of it would have their perceptions altered, making them more susceptible to alternate interpretations of reality.

_________________
“The sinister, the terrible never deceive: the state in which they leave us is always one of enlightenment. And only this condition of vicious insight allows us a full grasp of the world, all things considered, just as a frigid melancholy grants us full possession of ourselves. We may hide from horror only in the heart of horror."
--Thomas Ligotti


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Inconsistencies of the "alternate realities" explanation

Missing since: 20 Oct 2012
Notes left: 140
People tend to take the word reality too seriously in these discussions. In truth, there's no one word to describe the phenomena of Silent Hill. We just use words reality, worlds, planes, or whatever else to make discussion of it easier.

One thing is certain: the events of the games DO NOT take place in only one static, never changing place of existence.


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