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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Walter has got me thinking.....

Missing since: 15 Jan 2005
Notes left: 87
Last seen at: My house
Of cousre the whole story behind Walter is fucked up, the fact of living a life without a mother.
But after a few family issues I've been thru a couple of times (everything's fine now tho, I'm not here to talk of my personal life) an intersesting question came up that I wanted to share with you guys: What do you think is more painful? Living a life with a really bad mother, what it is that makes her a bad mother or to have had no mother at all?

This may be a boring topic but I just thought it's be interesting to talk about.

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"How come when it's us, it's an abortion......and when it's a chicken, it's an omlette?" - George Carlin


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Subway Guard
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Missing since: 28 Jan 2005
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Last seen at: Калинингра́д, Россия
Oh jesus here I go....
Okay, I'm gonna have to say it is better to live with a bad mother, at least you have the void filled that way.
Why? I had a mom. She was mentally ill, and couldn't really take care of us, and I hated her for that at times, but one day, out of nowhere, she was killed on impact by a confused driver.

Without even her voice in this world, I've never been so bitter, lonely, or lost in my entire existence.
I finally did get to know her, though, one week before she was killed. Something small I have to remember for myself.
I'm just grateful that despite her actions as a mother, she did love me.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 26 Jan 2004
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Last seen at: In the tattered recesses of your very mind
Because this isn't actually about SH4 (just inspired by it) I'm going to pop this over to Happy Burger.

In my opinion, it's better to have no mother than a bad one. To make a shakily different example, I don't live with my father. He is a very bad, self-centered man and we're all the better for having him out of our lives. There is no void, there's nothing. Granted, you could say there's a difference with a mother and considering I have a very close relationship with my mother, I'm inclined to agree.

BUT if you were never loved by your mother or never knew you had one, how could you have a void? You'd have no expectation or desire for it, because you've never experianced it

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Woodside Apartments Janitor
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Missing since: 15 Aug 2003
Notes left: 1099
Last seen at: The most extreme and utter region of the human mind.
There are two reasons that you would feel an absence from never having a mother.

One is that you would notice other kids with mothers. As a child you begin to wonder why you don't have this person that other kids have, you see the interactions between them, you recognise a certain kind of affection passing between them that you don't usually get from a father. The same goes with having a mother but no father. You begin to realise that your family unit, while it may be functional, is not as complete as that of others.

Another reason is instinct. Most children have a need for a mother's touch on a regular basis; it is as close to the security of the womb as they'll ever get. This absence may be ignored over time until it is triggered by the above situation--seeing other children with mothers. Some children adjust completely to this and live normally, usually children who are not deprived of much else in their lives. Others try to find ways to compensate, sometimes very unconventional ways. Whether it's being attracted to motherly women or affeminate men, or trying to raise your mother in a series of grisly rituals, the absence of a mother can become an unhealthy obsession.

Walter had no context for imagining what his mother could be like, so the Room seemed perfectly reasonable to him. But he had that need to be enveloped in his mother's embrace, and whether it was a human's arms or a beat up old couch, he had to connect with her in some way.

So, I guess my answer depends on how bad your life in general is, whether you'd have more things to worry about if you didn't have a mother, and if the pain of that absence became more troubling and unhealthy than the pain of actually having a bad one. Either way, there's not much you can do to change the situation you have, aside from killing your mom. That brings up a whole lot of legal issues, though.

_________________
“The sinister, the terrible never deceive: the state in which they leave us is always one of enlightenment. And only this condition of vicious insight allows us a full grasp of the world, all things considered, just as a frigid melancholy grants us full possession of ourselves. We may hide from horror only in the heart of horror."
--Thomas Ligotti


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 26 Jan 2004
Notes left: 2232
Last seen at: In the tattered recesses of your very mind
LastGunslinger wrote:
The same goes with having a mother but no father. You begin to realise that your family unit, while it may be functional, is not as complete as that of others.


By personal experiance, I believe this to be false. Even when I was younger I never considered my single parent family less complete than someone elses. However, perhaps my lack of general kinship with the rest of my species fascilitates this? Since a lot of people want to be like everyone else, to fit in, then perhaps the lack of a parental figure (male or female) is painful. But not for me.

Walter was a special case, of course. It wasn't as if he lived a relatively normal life, just without a mother. According to the diaries and whatnot, he wasn't raised in a good environment so it's impossible to state that Walter's mental problems stemmed from the simple fact that he didn't have a mother.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 05 Feb 2005
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I think it's important to note that he didn't have a father either.
Although he's never searching for his father at all and it seems that for most children "mother" is who they'll reach to in their primal instinct, the father figure is important in the spine of a family (setting examples of relationships, differences, personalities, another guardian, disciplining..).

Or that's what my friends seem to show. I don't have experience with fathers.

Walter at least has some primal feeling of what the mother figure should be. Some figure who's protecting (of course out of reach in this case). There's no perspective out of him for a father figure at all.

Back to the main main main topic.
There's no answer for that question because there are so many variables to each situation.
It's kind of fruitless to do comparisons like this I think.

Well actually, one of my lesbian friends asked me a while back if it would be bad for her child, if she and her girlfriend were to have one in the future, not to have a father figure.

Eitherhow, in the end you have to gather your own self up as much as you will and can, strive to make yourself emotionally independant and progress in life... at some point.

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...that all my life I've been rushing up and down hills, leaping rivers, crashing over obstacles,
never dreaming that one day that beautiful thing in flight would land on this earth and into my arms


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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Missing since: 15 Oct 2004
Notes left: 917
Last seen at: Hollywood boulevard.......selling socks.
I agree with AP, having no mother at all I feel is a whole lot better than having a worthless drunken bitch yelling at you all the time about her fucking problems and your problems and your never right. It isn't worth it. My mom pretty much drank herself to death and ended up committing suicide because she just didn't want the pressure of not being able to drink for one day. Trust me, I had a mother and I can say now truthfully I'm better off without her because she didn't do anything but drag me down. No matter how much I love her, I could never forgive her for the things she had done to me and my sister. She was so bad with my sister, I have nothing but hatred when I think about my mom. I'm happy that I was raised by my grandpa, he made me a better man. I'd be in prison if my mom were still alive. Everybody needs somebody, but it doesn't neccessarily mean having a mother. Everybody will have a different opinion on this subject because everybody was raised differently. Nobody could possibly fully understand what anybody is saying unless they have lived it themselves.

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SHH Cult Subscriber
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Missing since: 20 Apr 2004
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Last seen at: New York, NY
move to gen discussion.


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Moderator
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Missing since: 21 Jul 2003
Notes left: 11979
Last seen at: Nova Scotia, Canada
O.o

too many moves.....

Anyway, I think that having no mother at all rather than a shitty mother is preferable. You can find another mother figure to fill the void. I have absolutely no contact whatsoever with my mother, and I don't feel the slightest bit deprived of anything.

_________________
"I dreamt last night I saw you
A single spark explosion negotiating with the dead
By the bright lights in some ICU on my chest you put your head
and said "There you are.
There you are.
There's my heart..."


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 Post subject:

Now I'm not speaking for experience here, but from what I can tell, it's better to have no mother than to have a bad one.

A bad mother is capable of so much worse than no mother- someone who ridicules, abuses (mentally or emotionally), and/or insults can cause deep personal scars that will change a person forever. Perhaps even turning them into that type of person, since studies show that often the unloved become the unloving.

For Walter, of course, it's a little different. He had no adoptive mother or family to go to, and was betrayed by the whole world. He had absolutely nothing to fill his void, and that's why his search for a mother- at any costs- turned into such a demented and passionate quest.


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 Post subject:

OFFTOPIC: This is really interesting. I'll keep an eye on this thread.


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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Missing since: 05 Feb 2005
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It is much better to have no mother at all than to have a shitty mother.

This video makes the reason very clear.

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/videos/mean_mom.html

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Subway Guard
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Missing since: 28 Jan 2005
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I think everyone should post their experiences, instead of arguments, so that we may all read them and think for ourselves. There is no right answer. Just understanding.


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robbie-kun666 wrote:
I think everyone should post their experiences, instead of arguments, so that we may all read them and think for ourselves. There is no right answer. Just understanding.


Some would argue that there is a right answer, though...

I think even someone who hasn't had to experience it first-hand can understand it just based on personal life, friends, and knowing about relationships in general.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 15 Jan 2005
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I can't really answer the question because I have a great mom.She is my best friend and the worlds best cook.So I can't really anwser what would be worse.

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Woodside Apartments Janitor
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Missing since: 15 Aug 2003
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Last seen at: The most extreme and utter region of the human mind.
Logically speaking, no one can answer the question even if there is a correct answer. No one has lived two parallel lives--one with a bad mother, one with no mother--to draw a comparison. Yes, there have been people who have had a bad mother that left at some point, but to have existed without ever knowing a mother is a different story.

I would tend to agree that having no mother is better, but I haven't had the experience of a bad one or an absent one. For some people, a mother provides moral context, whether it's from positive or negative reinforcement. Even if you have a bad mother, you have something to compare positive things against; a bad mother can be the impetus of a career in saving battered children. If you have no mother and no suitable mother figure, you may grow up with an essential piece of your psychology missing, possibly becoming a sociopath.

Of course the counterexample is that the child will adopt a bad mother's perspective and behaviour, and become just as bad as it develops, while a child with no mother but a decent parent or guardian may become very responsible and charitable towards others. It can go either way.

_________________
“The sinister, the terrible never deceive: the state in which they leave us is always one of enlightenment. And only this condition of vicious insight allows us a full grasp of the world, all things considered, just as a frigid melancholy grants us full possession of ourselves. We may hide from horror only in the heart of horror."
--Thomas Ligotti


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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Missing since: 15 Oct 2004
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Last seen at: Hollywood boulevard.......selling socks.
WalterSullivanTragedy wrote:
Now I'm not speaking for experience here, but from what I can tell, it's better to have no mother than to have a bad one.

A bad mother is capable of so much worse than no mother- someone who ridicules, abuses (mentally or emotionally), and/or insults can cause deep personal scars that will change a person forever. Perhaps even turning them into that type of person, since studies show that often the unloved become the unloving.


I like this guy, I agree 110%.

Quote:
Anyway, I think that having no mother at all rather than a shitty mother is preferable. You can find another mother figure to fill the void. I have absolutely no contact whatsoever with my mother, and I don't feel the slightest bit deprived of anything.


I also agree with Drew 110%. Like he said, you can always fill the void by getting to know, say one of your friend's mom, and just look up to her. One of my old friends and his mom was pretty much my family for a while and it helps a WHOLE lot because not being able to talk about your problems and bottling them up inside of you your whole life, isn't going to do anything but having more people hate you and end up going to jail again. If you have a shitty mom, you cannot replace her, you just gotta deal with it until she's gone but if you have NO mom, you can always substitute her in a way by getting to know your friends' mom or somebody close to you. Having nobody is horrible, but having only one person in your life that you love and look up to, hate you and not care about the air you breath, is by far the worst feeling in the world.

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The Friday Night Delight


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 15 Jan 2005
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You got a point,LastGunslinger

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I'm like a circle, I'M TOO GOOD FOR CORNERS!!!


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 15 Jul 2003
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Even within the overall story arc of Silent Hill this is a difficult questions to answer. Look at Alessa, Angela, and Walter for example. It's difficult to see how Alessa or Angela not having a parent could be worse than what actually happened to them. I mean Dahlia purposefully set her daughter on fire for god's sake. What you can say in favour of Walter is that at least the void left him the ability to imagine an ideal mother that he just didn't have rather than a bad one which was permanently there. In Walter's case it unfortunately grew into an obsession, but this was to a large degree influenced by those parental figures he DID have. Dahlia and the other members of the cult took on a parental role, and it was their mistreatment wwhich turned him into a psycho, not his initial abandonment. If it weren't for the whole 21 Sacraments indoctrination it's very hard to see how he would have turned out like he did.

Overall I tend to believe that a bad parent is much worse than the lack thereof.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 13 Mar 2006
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It is definatly better to have a bad mother to have no mother.If you have no mother you feel left out.To atleast have a mother even bad is better than nothing


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