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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Kojima wants to reboot Silent Hill
     
         
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Missing since: 12 May 2008
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Still nothing is confirmed, but it sounds like Hideo Kojima is very interested in Silent Hill.

http://www.relyonhorror.com/latest-news ... ightmares/


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 Post subject: Re: Kojima wants to reboot Silent Hill
     
         
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Missing since: 06 Jul 2003
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Meh. Not a lot more info here than what he hinted at at EGX last year.

I'd love to see a Kojima SH, if only just because it means the series isn't dead!

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Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: Kojima wants to reboot Silent Hill
     
         
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Missing since: 03 Oct 2012
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I don't think it needs rebooting, but I'm not against the idea of him being involved in a new game.

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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Kojima wants to reboot Silent Hill
     
         
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Missing since: 30 Sep 2009
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For some reason, i'm so extremely hyped for Silent Hill to be directed by Kojima. The series doesn't need a reboot however. The formula is good enough and there so much more possible story-wise than what has been done.

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My Bestsellers Clerk
 Post subject: Re: Kojima wants to reboot Silent Hill
     
         
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Missing since: 06 Nov 2011
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Reboot it. The "formula" hasn't attracted any newcomers, and a name-brand Kojima SH would sure reel in a lot of new fans. The series needs to be revitalized. With the way Konami is, I don't see that happening unless this does first.


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Woodside Apartments Janitor
 Post subject: Re: Kojima wants to reboot Silent Hill
     
         
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Missing since: 21 May 2010
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Meh...i'd like to have kojima just let konami use the fox engine. At least the SH series will have a solid AAA engine that will be able to put a out a quality product. Not that the other games wasn't solid, but there has been a drop in quality of the SH games since their transistion to the ps3/360 era.

I also wouldn't want kojima writing or directing the next SH,...as much as i like the MGS series, kojima can be full of himself at times with his writing..the ending of MGS2 was a mess and i thought there was a huge missed opportunity in regards to the storyline of the "patriots". I truly thought it would be something alot more sinister and dark in MGS4, but it was dissappointingly lackluster.

And the series doesn't need a reboot. there's a ton of potential for new characters and storylines for each outing to keep the series fresh. All that is needed is a very strong showing from the ps4/xbox1 systems.


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 Post subject: Re: Kojima wants to reboot Silent Hill

Missing since: 26 Apr 2009
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Seems like nothing has changed since this conversation was started in 2012. It's still "Kojima would be interested in doing it but isn't sure he's the right person given his own weakness to horror". The fact that he keeps bringing it up and is still thinking about it two years later really does make it sound like he's retained interesting in doing it. Perhaps it isn't so ridiculously improbable now and we'll all be playing a Kojima Silent Hill game in a few years. Personally, my feelings on both the subject of a Kojima Silent Hill and a reboot haven't changed since the last time we talked about this.

NanayaShiki wrote:
I think Kojima is a decent enough writer when he's doing his own thing within the genre that he works best in. Even he admits he's not the right person for the job. I mean, I love Doctor Who, but I don't exactly want Steven Moffat writing the story for Persona 5. Nor would I want Team Persona writing Doctor Who. Good at one thing doesn't make you good at every thing.

I'd be willing to entertain a Kojima Silent Hill if it included the people who have been working on the series in the past few years. If they worked together and played off of each other's strengths, maybe something interesting could come from it. But I'd rather we just continue as we have been, given that Shattered Memories and Downpour were both fantastic.

NanayaShiki wrote:
I really don't see the point in rebooting the series. All they need to do is, like, make a new game that doesn't rely on the old games. Which I sort of feel like they've been doing. The recent games haven't been afraid to add to the series mythology (Downpour and Book of Memories) and imply new things, and the story of the first game has only come back into focus in SH3 and Origins. I mean, Silent Hill 2 was a great sequel to the first game and it had nothing to do with it. The series didn't need a reboot after SH1, just a new game that brought new ideas to the table and kept us interested. The only thing a reboot could do for the series that just another new game couldn't is creating new rules and betraying our expectations. Which they've also already done with Shattered Memories. If they wanted to do something like that again, I'm down with it, but I seriously doubt it will be as effective as the first time.

I think a lot of the people who say they think the series needs a reboot are honestly just tired of the series but can't figure out what it can do to become relevant to them again. I mean, we've all had this conversation several times on here before, and it's pretty much agreed that the core ideas behind the Silent Hill series and it's mythology weren't really intended to maintain player interest for over 8 games, and the fact that the fanbase throws a fit when anything is changed doesn't help at all. But I don't personally believe it needs to reboot anything to become fresh again.

But, again, this is coming from someone who loves the newer games as much as the older games (Silent Hill 2 being a special nothing-is-this-good exception). So I'm sure this isn't going to ring true for anyone who feels differently.



Of course the only difference now is that Tomm Hulett is no longer on the series, so we don't have the person that would be guaranteed to keep him in check and make sure things don't get too ridiculous or non-SH-y (ala the original plans for Homecoming). If Kojima is given free reign to do whatever he wants, I'd be a bit worried. I'd certainly give it a try, but I would go in with expectations of playing a Kojima horror game and not a Silent Hill game.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Kojima wants to reboot Silent Hill
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Feb 2009
Notes left: 7988
This again? Go home Kojima. You should stay with MGS and the obscure games like Snatcher and Zone of the Enders.

Or perhaps spend your time with movies and robot games. Go work on an Armored Core game or something like Gundam and you'll have more fun (and said series will become better and the gamers will have more fun).

I like him but he ruined Castlevania just by being an advisor, imagine actually being the producer... Just no.

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Woodside Apartments Janitor
 Post subject: Re: Kojima wants to reboot Silent Hill
     
         
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Missing since: 29 Jun 2008
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I still feel like Kojima would make a pretty bizarre Silent Hill game. Whether that's good or bad would have to be seen but I think he could make something memorable at least.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Kojima wants to reboot Silent Hill
     
         
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Missing since: 26 Mar 2010
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Last seen at: Los Angeles
Read as: For the love of God, please let me do something other than Metal Gear.


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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Kojima wants to reboot Silent Hill
     
         
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Missing since: 31 Aug 2010
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As long as he doesn' t write it I' d really like to see that. As others pointed out it would guarantee the game would look like an AAA title, which would be about damn time. Origins and SM looked good for their respective platforms, but the PS3 games not so much.

Also, I think survival horror and infiltration are genres that could blend really well, the Last of Us is proof of it. At least Kojima already masters one of those.

I guess it could go south big time, but worst case scenario it would at least bring the series back into the spotlight. It' s not as if I still had high hopes for the series anyway, so that' s a bet I would risk.

As for whether it should be rebooted or not, depends what they mean by reboot. If it' s yet another spin on Alessa then nope. Otherwise I don' t care either way.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Kojima wants to reboot Silent Hill

Missing since: 20 Oct 2012
Notes left: 140
HELL. FUCKING. NO.

First off, Silent Hill doesn't need a reboot when most of the entries are standalone anyway. All you need to do is make a new game with fresh ideas that does its own thing. You don't need a reboot of the entire SH universe to do that.

Second off, I'm getting sick and tired of the Kojima fanboys wanting this overrated shmuck to work on Silent Hill. Just because you love his ridiculously overrated "Tactical Espionage Action" games and because he's Japanese does not mean he should be crammed into any IP you like.

Kojima is to stealth games what Call of Duty is to FPS games. He spends too much time on fifth grade level political minutia, pretentious, bloated cutscenes, and spoonfeeding you every detail of the story to make sure you get the way he wants you to view the story and characters without any of those pesky ideas of letting the player fill in the gaps themselves getting in the way. And with all the subtlety of a rock. Can't have our players running around drawing their own conclusions now can we? He lowered the standards of the stealth genre with his linear level design and focus on shitty storytelling and Hollywood cinematics while infinitely superior stealth IPs like Thief, Tenchu, Splinter Cell, and Hitman get shoved out of the spotlight.

And people want this guy working on Silent Hill? Really? Look, I'm all for giving fresh blood new chances. But there's always going to be people you can recognize right off the bat who incompatible with certain franchises. Kojima being one of them. Throwing Kojima at the situation should not be the attempt to solve any of the company's problems. He's already been working on MGS for over two decades. And people want him constrained to another already established IP? No, he needs to work on something new. If we absolutely need to have that idiot involved in any way, it should be funding and lending the FOX engine out. Keep him the fuck away from the game's development process altogether.

On another note, Kojima's advisor role on Lords of Shadow merely involved some suggestions on character design and aiding in localization of the game. He wasn't the director. He was too preoccupied with his own projects. If you didn't like the game, blame MercurySteam because they were the main people working on it. Now I haven't played Lords of Shadow 2, but the first game was great even though it had its flaws. I liked how it went back to basics and more to a gothic style similar to the Classicvania titles. I'm tired of the Metroidvania style, and I'm tired of the fanboys trying to push it as the definitive gameplay design of the series. And before anybody even starts, I don't want to hear any complaints about Lords of Shadow being a God of War ripoff. Castlevania had already went the hack and slash route before God of War was even a thing. We know that game as Lament of Innocence.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Kojima wants to reboot Silent Hill
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Feb 2009
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Patman wrote:
As for whether it should be rebooted or not, depends what they mean by reboot. If it' s yet another spin on Alessa then nope. Otherwise I don' t care either way.

Yeah, that IS a problem. I don't want another Alessa/Dahlia/Kaufmann cult thing as well.

If they could reboot the series by expanding it's mythologies, by taking the indians and colonists stuff into account, (not a game set in the fucking past because they wouldn't want to take the risks and many would complain without a doubt) then it would be damn interesting and would attract new players. Because that's what they want, I believe. New blood to fuel the machine.

The story is confusing and abstract enough to to keep the common rabble in the dark and even those who search for the light tend to be confused about everything else and must read a lot and participate in the discussions. A sacrifice many don't want to commit.

So, in others words, give an easy backstory regarding the damn city goddammit. How and why that particular place, above all others, became a holy ground? Why the damn wars started in the first place? It was just a misunderstanding? Lust for power? Or the spirits had a hand on everything? What happened to the indians after everything was destroyed? Why there are God-like beings and manifestations acting through pure will, not connected to anyone in particular? What makes Toluca Lake a source to the spiritual world and why it affects the minds of people not connected to the city at all? How someone considered normal can alter the matter and switch through dimensions? This happens in the mind of the person or it's a physical thing? Or both?

Some of these questions are answered through the game albeit with little effort. You can find better explanations by fellow players but seriously... Such things makes me eager to learn more but the same can't be said about everyone nowadays. Those who work for the industry... Sometimes they need to chew and spew most of the things because if a person fails to understand the subject it is automatically trash and that could have an impact on the sales.

Add a fucking library to the game. It would be damn interesting to read some notes of the past. Sculptures like the Mother Stone from SH4, old paintings made by ancinet tribes... Silent Hill is a resort town but it had that "unspoiled by men" part, too. What about it's scholars? Joseph Schreiber is the perfect example of a modern scholar. Plenty of things to use, plenty of potential and nobody sees it! Gah, this kind of shit makes my blood boil...

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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Kojima wants to reboot Silent Hill
     
         
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Missing since: 15 Oct 2011
Notes left: 552
Last seen at: Phoenix
Now tell us how you really feel.


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Woodside Apartments Janitor
 Post subject: Re: Kojima wants to reboot Silent Hill
     
         
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Missing since: 21 May 2010
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I see what you're saying Mephisto, but i'm not sure if explaining how SH works will actually work in it's favor. If you start explaining how everything works with spirits and ghosts and everything in bewteen, it tends to get a bit hokey in terms of the overall theme and characterization of the town.

I've said a thousand times already that this series is set up like the old twighlight zone series, where weird and crazy stuff happens in those episodes, but nobody really questions why these incidents happen. I think it's better to keep folks engulfed in the mystery, because once you confirm how a mysterious power works like in SH, then you have a somewhat linear path you have to follow and guidelines.

The way SH is setup now is a way in which that nobody really knows the source of it's supernatural powers and really that is the way it should be, in that sense you can accept all of the weird occurences and transistions that happen within the game and it gives the dev's a chance to get really creative with their imaginations without being restricted.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Kojima wants to reboot Silent Hill

Missing since: 04 Mar 2007
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Postcode wrote:
I don't think it needs rebooting, but I'm not against the idea of him being involved in a new game.


I'm not liking the 'reboot' feeling either. But it sounds as though Konami corporate as a whole wants this and he'd like to accommodate the general company decision.

I'd like them to follow SH3 and 4's example and branch out into other cities/areas, where only the connection to Silent Hill is maintained in terms of lore or involving particular characters that came from there.


clips wrote:
I also wouldn't want kojima writing or directing the next SH,...as much as i like the MGS series, kojima can be full of himself at times with his writing..the ending of MGS2 was a mess and i thought there was a huge missed opportunity in regards to the storyline of the "patriots". I truly thought it would be something alot more sinister and dark in MGS4, but it was dissappointingly lackluster


It's unfair to completely paint Kojima with this brush, as I and other fans typically like and demand that sort of approach from the MGS games. The games are preachy, yes, but I like it as an insight into Kojima's insights as an 'auteur' and the series being a reflection of his personal insights and beliefs accommodated within an entertaining anime-style driven action vehicle. Whether Kojima can approach Silent Hill differently is yet to be seen, though understandably I'm also reluctant to say that he's the right guy to conceive the story for it, but I don't believe he will.

MGS4's problems are a result of unfortunate and imo unwarranted criticism of MGS2. Thus easy patch-work explanations were concocted for things that were never meant to be explained in the first place, which was the point of MGS2. The ending of MGS2 is precisely what it was intended to be, a reflection of the conspiracy-driven world where confusion and societal information overload without context is running amok, many themes that are HIGHLY relevant today in light of the NSA spying and BS propaganda politics from world governments, control and distortion of media etc. MGS2 was VERY forward-thinking. The 'mess' you describe at the end was the very point. And why it was deemed necessary to the Patriot AI to control information and memetic memory to direct the world according to its pre-conceived evolutionary path. It was brilliant. But sadly went over the heads of many. Or was simply dismissed because it broke up gameplay with lengthy codec sequences that is rather inefficient in terms of structure with gameplay>cutscene ratio.

If there were missed opportunities with MGS4 I regard this as due to critical and fan backlash of MGS2's very ambitious ideas. It's easy to see MGS4 as the game-design-by-committee-fan-service game it is. But Kojima has managed to show that he understands the criticisms and tries to accomodate both his passionate ideas and allow player freedom with regards to how he handled the high-brow subject matter in Peace Walker by segregating things to audio tapes and with how he's approaching Ground Zeroes.

MGS2 and 3 were made for an era where public demand for cutscenes and story presentation was very much in demand, especially in Japan, where story and characterization and philosophy is more important than gameplay. Even business discussions and company agreements are usually begun by corporate heads espousing company ethic and philosophy. And this sort of thing is prevalent in pop culture entertainment and anime. This is the Japanese way. Kojima tries to balance that with a Western ethic in MGS. Despite various flaws, I still manage to be impressed and interested in how he continues to rework the series with each subsequent entry, something many other franchises don't share by sticking to formula and the yearly release blockbuster model.


Mephisto wrote:
I like him but he ruined Castlevania just by being an advisor, imagine actually being the producer... Just no.


Kojima had next to nothing to do with the recent Castlevanias other than Konami making him attach his name to the first one just for marketing purposes, where in reality the most he contributed to was some comments about character design. Everything else was entirely Mercury Steam. This is pretty much admitted to in post-release interviews, and even Kojima himself who always insisted positively that all the credit belongs to Mecury Steam.


stonecoldsteveurkel wrote:
Second off, I'm getting sick and tired of the Kojima fanboys wanting this overrated shmuck to work on Silent Hill. Just because you love his ridiculously overrated "Tactical Espionage Action" games and because he's Japanese does not mean he should be crammed into any IP you like.


Well, I personally just want him to produce and lend the FOX Engine tech to the project and as best try to regroup the talent still left within Konami that made the games what they are. I also don't feel he's the right guy to write Silent Hill, but then again we have no idea if he can given he's been barred from doing anything else. I read his enthusiasm as that he has some very cool ideas in terms of gameplay and scary moments that he wants to do, he's generally been a game-play first guy and then wraps narrative around the gameplay. Even early cutscene-heavy games were because Kojima felt the market was asking for more of it right up to MGS4. And indeed many developers chased the cinematic style cutscene story-driven approach because such games were selling very well in the PS2 era. It has only been recently over the course of the PS3/360 cycle that demand and feedback is reflecting a reduction of cutscenes by making story more interactive and within the context of gameplay, and thus Kojima is accommodating this in MGSV.


stonecoldsteveurkel wrote:
Kojima is to stealth games what Call of Duty is to FPS games. He spends too much time on fifth grade level political minutia, pretentious, bloated cutscenes, and spoonfeeding you every detail of the story to make sure you get the way he wants you to view the story and characters without any of those pesky ideas of letting the player fill in the gaps themselves getting in the way. And with all the subtlety of a rock. Can't have our players running around drawing their own conclusions now can we? He lowered the standards of the stealth genre with his linear level design and focus on shitty storytelling and Hollywood cinematics while infinitely superior stealth IPs like Thief, Tenchu, Splinter Cell, and Hitman get shoved out of the spotlight.


Oh wow... As I explained above, the MGS games made their name precisely for what they always were and delivered in terms of what audiences at the time expected from the PS2 era. And considering that many were left so thoroughly confused by MGS2, 'spoonfeeding' is precisely not the sort of word anyone would use to describe the games. The MGS series does have characters who are ideologues, but also presents its fair share of delimmas between them that result in conflict. Philosophizing in the midst of battle has always been a traditional Japanese trophe as well as a general incorporation of good storytelling where internal conflicts are represented with outward physical expression which is what drives the conflict. In the case of the MGS games, the topics have always been about global affairs and world politics, the characters personalities and personal histories take second stage except where they tie directly into the main themes and meta-narrative. Towards the end we usually get Snake's decisions on the matter which represent Kojima's personal insights. The core story of MGS2 however is that the precise truths amongst the confusing world of distortions is entirely in the player's own hands to decide reality for himself.

But generally MGS has always been about the greater scope, and the characters are the vehicles. And Kojima balances these overly serious high brow topics by their polar opposites: humor and self-depreciation, to bring levity and give the series its ebb and flow. But make no mistake, that when you're signing up for a metal gear game, it's always going to be about those affairs, and Kojima is indeed making it such that it is more palatable for general audiences, especially given that he does much of it as an attempt to reach a younger generation that is by and large uninstructed in it and isolated from worldly affairs by Japanese politics, societal upbringing and the Japanese educational system. Things he tackles even more directly in Peace Walker's briefings. Maybe you don't like it, but comparing it to Call of Duty is laughable. Are you really going to suggest to us that Thief or Splinter Cell are handling any of this sort of subject matter in better ways?

Also all MGS games prior to MGS4 were fun little sandboxes to play around in and approach in multiple ways. Even Boss battles. Criticising MGS games in the gameplay department is extraordinarily laughable. And MGS has never hidden its arcadey style of play. True it's not a realistic stealth simulator like other games and has never sold itself as being that. It has always balanced itself out with its own style of fun gameplay that allows both puzzle-styled stealth and arcadey action set pieces. So it's disingenuous to compare it with other games that place the emphasis on realistic stealth. Metal Gear has succeeded beyond those titles precisely because its style of play appeals to hardcore stealth enthusiasts just as much as action fans.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Kojima wants to reboot Silent Hill

Missing since: 20 Oct 2012
Notes left: 140
On the contrary, people being confused with MGS2's plot further proves my point. The reason MGS2 confused a lot of people is because Kojima not only breaks the pacing of the gameplay by boring you with ten minute or so cutscenes, this practice overwhelms the player with too much pointless information and too many plot twists. He could have gotten a lot of the points across with half the dialogue and number of cutscenes. A plot being confusing doesn't automatically means it's deep, well constructed, or thought provoking.

If you want to play a stealth game that manages to have a cogent, well thought out story without the condescension, go play the original Deus Ex. It's twenty times the game the MGS series could ever dream of. And unlike the MGS series, it not only has multiple endings but multiple pathway branches along the journey to reach said endings.

The things you list as positives of the series such as how it quote unquote balances arcadey gameplay that appeals to hardcore are what sink it as a stealth game. A stealth game shouldn't be trying to appeal to both parties using arcadey gameplay. It should be primarily appealing to stealth fans. You can't have it both ways. You can't be both a full fledged stealth game and an action game. It doesn't work. Hell, even the once great Splinter Cell, Hitman, and Thief franchises have fallen victim to the same tripe development processes we see in MGS such as arcadey, cinematic gameplay and half baked story emphasis with their latest entries (Thief 4, Hitman: Absolution, and the last two Splinter Cell games). But unlike MGS, those games were at one point at a higher pedigree than the former. Majority of your hardcore stealth fans typically recognize MGS as overrated and not as deep as the other games I listed. MGS gets by on name brand value and its alleged "uber deep narrative".

And sandbox? Really? Games like Thief 2: The Metal Age exemplify sandbox style gameplay within a stealth game and unlike the MGS games has levels designed where you don't even need to kill or knock out anyone. MGS's levels are laughably linear. Linearity itself isn't inherently a bad thing. But stealth games hinge on exploring the levels and using the environment and whatever tools you can to your advantage. Linearity kills that type of gameplay. That wouldn't be a problem if Kojima himself didn't consistently bill the games as stealth games and its success leading to the lobotemization of the stealth genre. Go play some Thief, Splinter Cell, Hitman, etc. and tell me again with a straight face that MGS's levels aren't linear.


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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Kojima wants to reboot Silent Hill
     
         
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Missing since: 15 Oct 2011
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What I remember of watching my roommate play MGS is it was very wordy.

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Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject: Re: Kojima wants to reboot Silent Hill
     
         
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Missing since: 06 Mar 2008
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If Kojima made a Silent Hill game, it would most likely resemble SH3 the most. Gory, bizarre with an arrogant sarcastic lead.

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Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject: Re: Kojima wants to reboot Silent Hill
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Oct 2010
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Vixx wrote:
I'd love to see a Kojima SH, if only just because it means the series isn't dead!


I agree with this!

Who knows if he could actually make a good Silent Hill game, but this is probably the only real chance we have to get a new game in the series that's actually decent. Plus there's the fact that having him work on it would bring attention to the series again, which should be good for sales, and good for keeping the series alive.

I love what he does with the Metal Gear Solid series. They are the best AAA games being made currently. Still, I'm sure he would do something totally different for a Silent Hill game. Kojima is a creative guy.

There's also the chance that having him on the project could attract some old members of Team Silent, which would be great. I'd like to see Akira Yamaoka come back and actually be motivated to make a decent soundtrack again!

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