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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Timeline of Silent Hill's History—UPDATE: DECEMBER//23//

Missing since: 05 Aug 2012
Notes left: 120
AuraTwilight wrote:
Main games SINCE. Games before SH4 don't count, Arcade isn't a main game, and SHO is a prequel. Homecoming and Downpour both follow the rule Adversary described.

Still that doesn't really make it a rule if two games apparently did it. Also the discussion about Downpour is still not fully disclosed if I'm on speed with it, so basically there's only Homecoming which very likely plays in the same timeframe it was released.

And I got new stuff to stir things up. Did anybody here ever get the Kôshiki Guide Complete Edition for Silent Hill 4? It's quite an interesting read but also throws up new problems concerning what the setting imagined by the people involved was.

If anybody's interested I can post a translation of the timeline given in the guide, but to give a first idea, it places Silent Hill 1 at the time when Walter was between 18 and 19, Silent Hill 2 6 years later in the same year as his death, and describes the "era of Silent Hill 3" (I severely hope they mean all the events or communication between the team of part 3 and 4 sucked BAD) as starting around 5 or 6 years after Walter's death.
But well, we could argue that all this was overwritten through the also non-canon information for SH-Homecoming.


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Moderator
 Post subject: Re: Timeline of Silent Hill's History—UPDATE: DECEMBER//23//
     
         
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Missing since: 15 Apr 2004
Notes left: 11052
Last seen at: In the anals of forum history
I'd certainly be interested. I mean, after all, we have to have as much knowledge as possible if we want a comprehensive timeline.

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RESPECT
 Post subject: Re: Timeline of Silent Hill's History—UPDATE: DECEMBER//23//
     
         
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19397
Last seen at: #lfk
By that guide, it'd be:

ORIGINS: 1978
SILENT HILL: 1985
RESTLESS DREAMS: 1991
LOST MEMORIES: 1997
THE ROOM: 2001
HOMECOMING: 2007
DOWNPOUR: 2011

That's really not far from what I originally posited.

I still maintain SILENT HILL 4: THE ROOM makes the most sense taking place in 2001 given the diary. Walter says he's only allowed out of the prison on Sundays, meaning it's the only day on which he could actually visit Ashfield and write in his gothy journal.

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Timeline of Silent Hill's History—UPDATE: DECEMBER//23//

Missing since: 05 Aug 2012
Notes left: 120
Ryantology wrote:
I'd certainly be interested. I mean, after all, we have to have as much knowledge as possible if we want a comprehensive timeline.

Though I'd say it pretty much messes some of the later established events up :lol:
I'm trying to get this into a proper chart that can be used, but so far let's use something that can be quoted...

WALTER'S BIRTH
Walter Sullivan: Walter is abandoned at birth
Going back 34 years from the start of the games events. A baby was abandoned in room #302 of South Ashfield Heights. His life could be saved through the help of the superintendent, his parents were already nowhere to be found and the baby was given to the orphanage "Wish House". The superintendent kept the umbilical cord from back then ever since.

Age 6
Walter Sullivan: Walter, wishing for his mother, commutes to South Ashfield
The Cult: Andrew becomes a guard at the Water Prison
It was this year when Andrew became a guard at the Water Prison. He meets Walter there.

AGE 16
South Ashfield Area: Eileen and Walter meet
It seems like when Eileen met Walter at that time, she gave him a doll

AGE 18
South Ashfield Area: Cynthia and Walter meet
A then 13 year old Cynthia meets Walter, who is going to the apartment by subway

Between 18 and 19
The Cult: The era of Silent Hill 1

AGE 19
Walter Sullivan: Walter moves to Pleasant River
Embracing the wish for revenge in his heart, Walter lead a normal everyday life. At this age he begins living in Pleasant River.

AGE 24 (Walter's Death)
Walter Sullivan: The Walter Sullivan Case
Upon the discovery of the Billy/Miriam incident, Walter is arrested. This case of a young brother and sister being murdered (the fact that he killed 10 people was only later discovered) was covered in the mass media as well. He commited suicide 4 days after his arrest, but actually he did not die and after several days he conducted the Ritual of Liberation in room #302.
The Cult: The era of Silent Hill 2
South Ashfield Area: The son and daughter-in-law of the superintendent vanish
The name of the superintendents son was James Sunderland. He was the protagonist of Silent Hill 2. He vanished together with his wife Mary 10 years ago. It is unknown to which ending of Silent Hill 2 this connects.
South Ashfield Area: A suspicious man is seen at the apartment complex
About the time when news of the Walter Sullivan case were shaking society, a suspicious man was seen at the apartment complex. It is this man who is the true Walter, who turned one part of room #302 into a hidden chamber and performed the Ritual of Liberation.

2 YEARS AFTER DEATH
Walter Sullivan: Walter's 12th murder

3 YEARS AFTER DEATH
Walter Sullivan: Walter's 13th murder
The Cult: Article on the Order gets published
The gossip magazine Concord publishes an article on the Order. The author is Joseph. Also seen in Silent Hill 3.

Inbetween 3 and 7 years after
The Cult: The era of Silent Hill 3

7 YEARS AFTER DEATH
Walter Sullivan: Walter's 14th murder
South Ashfield Area: Joseph starts writing the Crimson Diary
At this point Joseph started to chronicle things he learned about Walter

7 1/2 YEARS AFTER DEATH
South Ashfield Area: Joseph vanishes
While staying in room #302 he is pulled into Walter's world

Inbetween 7 1/2 and 8 years after
Walter Sullivan: Walter's 15th murder (Joseph)

8 YEARS AFTER DEATH
South Ashfield Area: Henry starts living in room #302
This is the time when Henry moved into room #302

10 YEARS AFTER DEATH
The Cult: The era of Silent Hill 4

(x) Christian Dates are unknown

(C)KONAMI MEDIA ENTERTAINMENT
SILENT HILL 4 THE ROOM: OFFICIAL GUIDE COMPLETE EDITION
July 20th 2004


EDIT
The Adversary wrote:
That's really not far from what I originally posited.

I still maintain SILENT HILL 4: THE ROOM makes the most sense taking place in 2001 given the diary. Walter says he's only allowed out of the prison on Sundays, meaning it's the only day on which he could actually visit Ashfield and write in his gothy journal.

I was not trying to imply that the timeline was far from what you suggested, but small things are important as well when trying to built a (arguably shaky) system encompassing all the games. It's impressive what you've managed to collect and I don't want to talk that down in the slightest.
The only thing really afflicted by the events would be Silent Hill 2 anyways, but it would have to be discussed what exactly was implied by placing "the era of Silent Hill 3" where it is...

And regarding that last part...what exactly do you mean with Lost Memories taking place in 1997?


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RESPECT
 Post subject: Re: Timeline of Silent Hill's History—UPDATE: DECEMBER//23//
     
         
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19397
Last seen at: #lfk
>what exactly do you mean with Lost Memories taking place in 1997?<
LOST MEMORIES is what I call SILENT HILL 3.

Anyway. That timeline is, from what I can remember, identical to the timeline offered in the official SILENT HILL 4: THE ROOM strategy guide from BradyGames, a lot of which I initially used to formulate my own. Some of it I found questionable based on in-game material, so while I didn't ignore it I also didn't necessarily take it entirely seriously.

That's the problem with making a comprehensive timeline like I have: A lot of contradicting material is out there, so naturally "mistakes" will be made, both in mine and what's considered official.

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This post is the property of its author and is not to be used elsewhere without explicit permission from the author.

. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Timeline of Silent Hill's History—UPDATE: DECEMBER//23//

Missing since: 05 Aug 2012
Notes left: 120
The Adversary wrote:
>what exactly do you mean with Lost Memories taking place in 1997?<
LOST MEMORIES is what I call SILENT HILL 3.

Ah, okay :o
But...isn't that exactly the problem? No matter how you toss and turn it, SH3 cannot have happened 12, 13 years after SH1. Heather is clearly a baby at the end of SH1 and is established being 17 in SH3...so according to this timeline SH3 should happen in 2002/2003, which would technically work.

The "era of SH3" being at that point in the timeline either means that it is really directly connected to the cult (it is located in that column of the timeline) and implies that from that point on the cult was like presented in SH3...or communication between the SH3 and 4 teams were so messed up that they didn't even get to correct this for a guide.

Or maybe Heather was supposed to be 12 or 13 in SH3 at first...that would have been all sorts of messed up :twisted:


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RESPECT
 Post subject: Re: Timeline of Silent Hill's History—UPDATE: DECEMBER//23//
     
         
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19397
Last seen at: #lfk
That is the problem, which is why I mentioned it. SILENT HILL 3 happening after SILENT HILL 4: THE ROOM doesn't make sense, yet the alleged official material, in this one instance, at least, proposes it does.

When I was originally working on it, and using that timeline, I simply ignored when SILENT HILL supposedly took place. The developers have basically confirmed it takes place in 1983, my initial position, with the inclusion of Alex's diary.

ORIGINS: 1976
SILENT HILL: 1983
RESTLESS DREAMS: 1994
LOST MEMORIES: 2000
THE ROOM: 2001
HOMECOMING: 2007
DOWNPOUR: 2011

The problem with SILENT HILL 2 happening in 1991 is another contradiction between materials. That same guide says it took place a decade before SILENT HILL 4: THE ROOM. However, the in-game Trick or Treat voice claims Walter Sullivan killed the Locane siblings "a few years back"—meaning the murders and the game couldn't have occurred in the same year. As I've stated before, I generally prefer in-game information than supplementary material, especially when dealing with contradictions. And, while I understood you prefer not to use calendars in the games, a calendar in Lakeview Hotel indicates it is for 1994. This suggests, to me, the developers' initial thought was to set the game in '94.

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This post is the property of its author and is not to be used elsewhere without explicit permission from the author.

. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Timeline of Silent Hill's History—UPDATE: DECEMBER//23//

Missing since: 05 Aug 2012
Notes left: 120
The Adversary wrote:
That is the problem, which is why I mentioned it. SILENT HILL 3 happening after SILENT HILL 4: THE ROOM doesn't make sense, yet the alleged official material, in this one instance, at least, proposes it does.

Well actually it doesn't change that much if it happened before or after. From continuity logic they are far enough removed from each other that it doesn't actually tell us how they are connected, the only real problem is that there needs to be a 17 year span between SH1 and 3.

Quote:
The developers have basically confirmed it takes place in 1983, my initial position, with the inclusion of Alex's diary.

Who actually wrote those diaries anyway? That is one problem that we generally have to deal with I'm afraid, that there is not one consistent writer creating the continuity but a bunch of people taking their own spin on continuity. This loose kind of continuity is pretty much comparable to big brand US-comics from DC or Marvel, which highlight their connectivity but stay liberal with actual dates on purpose.

Quote:
As I've stated before, I generally prefer in-game information than supplementary material, especially when dealing with contradictions.

I absolutely understand that, the games are the shared basis for us all and contradicting them wouldn't be beneficial; they are the continuity that is actually told to everybody regardless of how deep the interest goes.
Yet it's hard to ignore what the individual game teams apparently had in mind when creating their games. Especially 3 and 4 might have had a rougher time to connect, being developed at the same time and thus having only limited access to the others continuation of the canon.

Add to that that it's not unlikely that Climax didn't consult every one of those timelines and it creates even more confusion. I remember that back in the days one of the developers of either Origins or Homecoming said, that Konami had allowed them to use collected background information on Silent Hill, which made me happy back then. Today I question whose material they actually used. Toyama, Sato, Owaku and Murakoshi all had pretty different ways to write Silent Hill and as it appears also their own take on the continuity. Now we would need to guess what material Barlow and especially Doody and Valenziano (and their writing team) used to fit into that continuity.

Quote:
And, while I understood you prefer not to use calendars in the games, a calendar in Lakeview Hotel indicates it is for 1994. This suggests, to me, the developers' initial thought was to set the game in '94.

Though wouldn't that actually indicate that the game takes place in 1995/96, because Lakeview burned down in the time between James last visit, so for a calendar to be an actual hint it would have either to be the last date the hotel would actually put up one or it would have to be the year James wishes it to be, which could mean it's actually 1991...

But yes, sometimes the calendars seem to make a lot of sense, like with Walter's diary being written in 1973/74...in other places they could just be random calendars used for atmosphere.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Timeline of Silent Hill's History—UPDATE: DECEMBER//23//

Missing since: 01 Mar 2004
Notes left: 3526
Last seen at: Waco, Texas
I came to the conclusion that the hotel fire was none too recent. Especially, since Mary's death was just as recent as a few days, one can infer that it happened within James' last visit....which was most likely a few days prior........*ahem*.....

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Value your failures more than your successes. Successes only last until someone screws them up. Failures are forever. She left...and...I'm lost.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: Timeline of Silent Hill's History—UPDATE: DECEMBER//23//
     
         
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Missing since: 16 Oct 2012
Notes left: 157
Last seen at: Portland
Off the current topic, but looking at the current timeline and the previous page - I'm curious how it's concluded that Murphy's arrest happened in 2006, February 26. It's a little bit different from how I imagined, since I figured Murphy was in prison for at least a couple years before he was up for parole.

I don't know, I think I might've kind of thought a little bit too much about stuff like that. I do think the events of Downpour took place in October 2011, which make sense to me.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Timeline of Silent Hill's History—UPDATE: DECEMBER//23//
     
         
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Missing since: 26 Dec 2004
Notes left: 2560
Last seen at: Insomnia land, where I am Queen!
I didn't notice the DJ's calendar in Downpour, but it seemed like all the other calendars around town were on August. Also, what is up with all of the gramophones and boomboxes all over the place in 2011, not to mention the older songs playing and the 50s era fridges. Downpour had this weird retro vibe to it while still seeming to be modern. If it wasn't for the shout outs to the prior games, I would say that this one took place before all the others, in a time where protagonists hadn't yet figured out how to carry more than 2 weapons. :D

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Timeline of Silent Hill's History—UPDATE: DECEMBER//23//

Missing since: 18 Aug 2014
Notes left: 3
Thomas, I don't know if anyone else has pointed it out already, but endnote number 43 is incorrect.


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Brookhaven Receptionist
 Post subject: Re: Timeline of Silent Hill's History—UPDATE: AUGUST//19//
     
         
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Missing since: 10 Oct 2008
Notes left: 845
I do hate thread resurrection but I was actually looking at the timeline on the Silent Hill wiki, and I gotta say it's really screwed up.


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