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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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I agree with Emptimass entirely.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Rosewater Park Attendant
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Upon re-reading it, I think it's a valid theory.
I'm seeing the movie tonight, so I'll pay careful attention to the points you mentioned. :wink:

EDIT: Yeah, that theory is the only thing that makes sense for me...


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Missing since: 22 Apr 2006
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emptimass wrote:
Their faith blinds them to the point in which they do not see that they died, nor do they see the obvious signs. Christabella seems to do a good job of pulling the wool over the sheeps eyes with righteous banter and dogmatic babel.


It seems to me that they aren't actually dead per-se. That seems a little too simplistic. Remember Gucci said they "couldn't find half the bodies." Of course, this is somewhat of an exaggeration I'm sure. But I gathered he was referring to the very people who reside in the church. Furthermore, if they were dead, how could Alessa kill them again? Its almost as if they were being held there until she could either catch them outside the church (i.e, Anna and the miners killed in the school) or until she could enter the church (i.e, Rose).


emptimass wrote:
I think that Anna is the same age that she was when she first came to the Otherside. Look at everybody. They did not really age. Christabella's hair was a bit nicer before the event but not much else is different.

Dahlia aged and became grey. I believe that is because she came to the otherside just like Rose. She is a guest. She lives for real, while the cult members eternally hide from the wrath of Alessa and the Demon. I do not believe that Dahlia ever died in the fires. She is exepted and can live amongst the darkness.


Exactly.

emptimass wrote:
One more thing. I believe that Rose was alive, up until Christabella stabbed her. At this time Rose falls, and spites forth the demon into the sanctuary. Her wound heals up. She is now living a second life in the Otherworld.


I'm not sure about that. I think she was "protected" in essence by the demon. Besides, her getting stabbed was the whole point. The demon knew this would happen because she knew of Christabella's lies. She would do anything to quash any objection to her rule over the people of the church. This allowed the demon and Alessa to enter the church. Rose and Sharon continue to live on there, with apparently no way to return to the real world. However, I still do not believe that's grounds to say they are dead. Dahlia continued to live there as well. That being said, at this point I fully believe the people of the church are dead and Alessa is dead.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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It seems to me that they aren't actually dead per-se. That seems a little too simplistic. Remember Gucci said they "couldn't find half the bodies." Of course, this is somewhat of an exaggeration I'm sure. But I gathered he was referring to the very people who reside in the church. Furthermore, if they were dead, how could Alessa kill them again? Its almost as if they were being held there until she could either catch them outside the church (i.e, Anna and the miners killed in the school) or until she could enter the church (i.e, Rose).


Death and Life become pretty meaningless in the Otherworld, just like in the games.

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That being said, at this point I fully believe the people of the church are dead and Alessa is dead.


Alessa is perfectly alive, or she wouldn't be in so much unbearable pain.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Missing since: 22 Apr 2006
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AuraTwilight wrote:
Death and Life become pretty meaningless in the Otherworld, just like in the games.


Not true. If that was the case, why would she work so hard to kill them for what they'd done to her?

AuraTwilight wrote:
Alessa is perfectly alive, or she wouldn't be in so much unbearable pain.


Perhaps you misunderstood me. I believe she and the others in the church are dead after she exacts her revenge on them. The part where Dahlia, Rose and Sharon are left in the church.

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Historical Society Historian
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Not true. If that was the case, why would she work so hard to kill them for what they'd done to her?


Considering how painful those deaths were, I'm of the mind that now that they're in her clutches, she probably either destroyed their souls, or they're in a hellish plane being painfully murdered over, and over, and over.

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Perhaps you misunderstood me. I believe she and the others in the church are dead after she exacts her revenge on them. The part where Dahlia, Rose and Sharon are left in the church.


Alessa merged with Sharon. I wouldn't call that dead by a long shot.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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AuraTwilight wrote:
Alessa merged with Sharon. I wouldn't call that dead by a long shot.


I assume you're referring to the part where Rose was telling Sharon to shut her eyes. If anyone, that was not Alessa. That was quite obviously the Demon. Alessa was the one killing everyone. Supported by, (A) She was lying in a hospital bed. And if that wasn't compelling enough, (B) Dahlia looks up at her (remember the Demon was down below playing in the blood) and asks "Alessa, what have you become?" and lastly, (C) Dahlia asks Rose "Why did she not take me with the others?". Notice Sharon said nothing to her as they walked out of the church. Alessa wouldn't just leave her mother there alone to grieve more.

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Historical Society Historian
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I thought it was quite obvious that all three of them merged together. And besides, with her powers, the new conglomerate Sharon entity can probably see her any time, not that she would because she betrayed her daughter.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Missing since: 25 Mar 2008
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not that she would because she betrayed her daughter.


she didn't purposely betray her daughter because at that time she just went along with the religious rituals, but then she realized her mistake and left to get some help. I know alessa wasn't stupid enough to know that her mother never meant for it to happen when dahlia was powerless to stop it. That's why she never took her witht the others

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AuraTwilight wrote:
I thought it was quite obvious that all three of them merged together. And besides, with her powers, the new conglomerate Sharon entity can probably see her any time, not that she would because she betrayed her daughter.


You say they merged, yet you also say:

AuraTwilight wrote:
I'm of the mind that now that they're in her clutches, she probably either destroyed their souls, or they're in a hellish plane being painfully murdered over, and over, and over.


So the 3 of them merged, yet Alessa is still able to carry out their murders over and over? Somehow that doesn't fly. Alessa is not an omnipresent entity.

SilentMadness wrote:
she didn't purposely betray her daughter because at that time she just went along with the religious rituals, but then she realized her mistake and left to get some help. I know alessa wasn't stupid enough to know that her mother never meant for it to happen when dahlia was powerless to stop it. That's why she never took her witht the others


Exactly. Dahlia thought she was doing the right thing at first, but the moment Alessa left her arms and they told Dahlia to leave, she knew it was wrong. If you watch the part where the Demon shows Rose all those events from Alessa's life, it becomes very obvious Alessa had no malice towards her mother.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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she didn't purposely betray her daughter because at that time she just went along with the religious rituals, but then she realized her mistake and left to get some help. I know alessa wasn't stupid enough to know that her mother never meant for it to happen when dahlia was powerless to stop it. That's why she never took her witht the others


Regardless, her mother didn't stick up for her, even when she learned the error of her ways. She chose her own safety over her daughter's, and that must've been emotionally devastating. I know I'D choose Rose too.

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So the 3 of them merged, yet Alessa is still able to carry out their murders over and over? Somehow that doesn't fly. Alessa is not an omnipresent entity.


I agree she's not omnipresent, but she can control hundreds of monsters simultaneously. If not omnipresent, she's very near-omnipotent, having created an entire alternate dimension. She could very easily "program" monsters to keep torturing her victims while she enjoys a life with Rose, couldn't she?

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Exactly. Dahlia thought she was doing the right thing at first, but the moment Alessa left her arms and they told Dahlia to leave, she knew it was wrong. If you watch the part where the Demon shows Rose all those events from Alessa's life, it becomes very obvious Alessa had no malice towards her mother.


I agree entirely. Alessa has no malice to her mother, and that why she's alive. But she's found a better mother whom she trusts more. Just because she feels no malice doesn't mean she doesn't feel betrayed or hurt by Dahlia's actions.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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AuraTwilight wrote:
Regardless, her mother didn't stick up for her, even when she learned the error of her ways. She chose her own safety over her daughter's, and that must've been emotionally devastating.


False. Dahlia immediately ran to get help, remember Gucci and the other officers? In this act, she did "stick up for her."

AuraTwilight wrote:
I agree she's not omnipresent, but she can control hundreds of monsters simultaneously. If not omnipresent, she's very near-omnipotent, having created an entire alternate dimension. She could very easily "program" monsters to keep torturing her victims while she enjoys a life with Rose, couldn't she?


Doubtful. That also relies on the notion that Alessa/Sharon/the Demon are one in the same. And we have no evidence proving they are. If anything, only Sharon and the Demon became one. I once again point to Dahlia's quote "Why did she not take me with the others?" Rose and Sharon didn't watch the entirety of Alessa's revenge, but I imagine Dahlia saw the whole thing. I gather she dragged them all down with her after she was finished with them.

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Historical Society Historian
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False. Dahlia immediately ran to get help, remember Gucci and the other officers? In this act, she did "stick up for her."


She was the one who turned her to the fire in the first place, and at the time, all Alessa saw was her mother running off. She can't read her mind.

Quote:
Doubtful. That also relies on the notion that Alessa/Sharon/the Demon are one in the same. And we have no evidence proving they are. If anything, only Sharon and the Demon became one. I once again point to Dahlia's quote "Why did she not take me with the others?" Rose and Sharon didn't watch the entirety of Alessa's revenge, but I imagine Dahlia saw the whole thing. I gather she dragged them all down with her after she was finished with them.


I don't see why only two thirds of Alessa would merge together, so for my personal theories, I take the epilogue Sharon to be the full composite of all three girls. It doesn't really matter though, because either way she can still give the cultists eternal punishment. Sharon is probably apathetic and silent to show she was possessed. If she were the ordinary Sharon, she'd probably have said something realistically innocent and human, but Alessa has become something inhuman now. "Take me" probably refers to how Alessa was taking their lives.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Missing since: 25 Mar 2008
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She was the one who turned her to the fire in the first place, and at the time, all Alessa saw was her mother running off. She can't read her mind.


Dahlia was raised to follow the order all her life and was taught that was how to get rid of the demon. Plus, she probably didn't want to be disowned by the family if she never followed through. As far for alessa, of course she couldn't read minds but you don't need to. She knew how much her mother loved her and understood why she did it in the first place. the fact that dahlia came to help at the ends must have proven to alessa that she didn't want this for her child but just went along with it from her teachings of that religion. Indeed she snappped out of it and tried to save her.

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Missing since: 22 Apr 2006
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I agree with SilentMadness.

Also,

AuraTwilight wrote:
I don't see why only two thirds of Alessa would merge together, so for my personal theories, I take the epilogue Sharon to be the full composite of all three girls. It doesn't really matter though, because either way she can still give the cultists eternal punishment. Sharon is probably apathetic and silent to show she was possessed. If she were the ordinary Sharon, she'd probably have said something realistically innocent and human, but Alessa has become something inhuman now. "Take me" probably refers to how Alessa was taking their lives.


The Demon is a separate entity. During the flashback sequence the Demon says,

Quote:
Alessa's hate grew and grew, burning inside her. Her hate got so strong, she even hurt someone who was only curious. That's when I came. I told her it was their turn. I promised they would all fall into her darkest dream.


When Rose inquires about its indentity it says, "I have many names. Right now I'm the dark part of Alessa." Meaning it took on her persona, but was in fact not Alessa. Personally, I still believe Alessa to be dead at the end of the revenge sequence along with the others. Dahlia still lives on, but alone apparently.

However, I do agree that the reason she said nothing was that she was possessed. Her personality has clearly changed. She doesn't even speak to Rose as they're getting ready to leave or when they come home. And after all that time being separated from her mother, she leaves her in the living room of the house and walks off on her own. Any child that had been through that would be clinging to their parents for dear life.

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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Missing since: 25 Mar 2008
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However, I do agree that the reason she said nothing was that she was possessed. Her personality has clearly changed. She doesn't even speak to Rose as they're getting ready to leave or when they come home. And after all that time being separated from her mother, she leaves her in the living room of the house and walks off on her own. Any child that had been through that would be clinging to their parents for dear life.


I absolutely agree, those are most of the points that show that she was posessed at least by the demon "dark alessa". I don't know about the actual alessa, but I assumed she eiher went back to her basement with avange in her mind accomplished or my new other possibility (thanks for jthomp1286 for pointiong that out) that she died right after she did what she needed to do.

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Historical Society Historian
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Dahlia was raised to follow the order all her life and was taught that was how to get rid of the demon. Plus, she probably didn't want to be disowned by the family if she never followed through. As far for alessa, of course she couldn't read minds but you don't need to. She knew how much her mother loved her and understood why she did it in the first place. the fact that dahlia came to help at the ends must have proven to alessa that she didn't want this for her child but just went along with it from her teachings of that religion. Indeed she snappped out of it and tried to save her.


Technically, Alessa never learned that Dahlia came to help, as she was about unconscious at the time. The theme they seemed to be driving home is that a child could never hate their mother, no matter how much of a shitbag they can be. But whatever. Let's just agree that Alessa loved her mother, but loved Rose more.

Quote:
The Demon is a separate entity. During the flashback sequence the Demon says,
Quote:
Alessa's hate grew and grew, burning inside her. Her hate got so strong, she even hurt someone who was only curious. That's when I came. I told her it was their turn. I promised they would all fall into her darkest dream.

When Rose inquires about its indentity it says, "I have many names. Right now I'm the dark part of Alessa." Meaning it took on her persona, but was in fact not Alessa. Personally, I still believe Alessa to be dead at the end of the revenge sequence along with the others. Dahlia still lives on, but alone apparently.


See, I interpreted that differently. I saw Dark Alessa as a manifestation of Alessa's that grew to represent the Demon the cult feared, along with similar entities, so that it had "gained" many names, but at the time it spoke to Rose, it was speaking to her as Alessa's Dark Side, it's true self.

Regardless of Dark Alessa's nature, though, I still think all three Alessas became one.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Missing since: 22 Apr 2006
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AuraTwilight wrote:
Let's just agree that Alessa loved her mother, but loved Rose more.


That I cannot agree to. Alessa was not fully unconscious, I'm sure she could hear her mother's screams when Gucci and the officers came. She grasped Gucci's shoulder as he was carrying her off. That seemed to indicate consciousness to me. Not to mention that technically Alessa didn't meet Rose until near the end.

AuraTwilight wrote:
I still think all three Alessas became one.


You are inclined to do so. However, I am disinclined to agree.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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That I cannot agree to. Alessa was not fully unconscious, I'm sure she could hear her mother's screams when Gucci and the officers came. She grasped Gucci's shoulder as he was carrying her off. That seemed to indicate consciousness to me. Not to mention that technically Alessa didn't meet Rose until near the end.


Well enough points, but Alessa and Sharon are in truth one identity, and the bond between one parent and one half is stronger than the other. If they merged together, more power to the theory. Regardless, the Composite Sharon in the epilogue chose to go with Rose instead of Dahlia, and since Rose served her purpose, there can be no other motivation but love and attachment.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Just Passing Through
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The way I took the ending, was that the demon merged with Sharon. Keeping Rose around for some further purpose, perhaps as a guardian. Or possibly as a way to get out through her mind. Part two may go a different way, but it's my expectation that the next part of Dark Alessa's plan will involve her husband, possibly trying to open a door into the regular world.

Course it's speculation useing the games as a loose guide, but we don't have anything else to use. Not without a good explanation from Gans himself. :|


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