Ending too ambiguous?

Discuss the original 2006 movie.

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volpe3fuego
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Post by volpe3fuego »

rm2kking wrote:Plus (not meaning to disobey your request) theres a whole bunch of evil entities in the Silent Hill mythos to choose from! Xuchilbara, Lobsel Vith, the God, Valtiel, etc. It would not be unrealistic to assume it was one of those entities. I believe Valtiel was once working through Walter, so that shows it's possible, you know?
I agree about Valtiel possibly working through Walter in SH4. I realize that idea, but when I mention the notion about Dark Alessa being a form of the devil, I'm referring to the movie's storyline alone and putting her representation in the game aside. Speaking about the movie as a separate entity from the games, I'm solely referring to what the director's intentions were.
rm2kking wrote:Alright, I've said my piece. Now we can agree to disagree :)
LoL Yes, and now that I've said mine, let's ;)
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Post by rm2kking »

I see where you are coming from. I have this tendency to explain the movie with the scenarios of the game. Sometimes it does not work because the Director's intentions were so different in certain cases.
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Post by volpe3fuego »

rm2kking wrote:I see where you are coming from. I have this tendency to explain the movie with the scenarios of the game. Sometimes it does not work because the Director's intentions were so different in certain cases.
Yeah, I completely understand, too. It is a bit hard to look @ them as separate entities because the movie is after all adapted from the game. But then I have to remember that a movie is a movie and a game is a game; different mediums and directors involved. Like with Pyramid Head, in the game he represents James' guilt but in the movie, he was probably used to represent the guilt of the townspeople. But that's a whole other topic ;)
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rm2kking
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Post by rm2kking »

Indeed. The movie is so much like the games it's hard to think it runs on a different set of rules. The rules aren't that much different, but they are different enough to screw with any game-based reasoning.
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I dreamed I lay in a dark valley and all around me were the titanic forms of archangels. I heard distant voices and I knew these supernatural warriors were chanting a litany...
"We are the Warriors at the End of Time. We are the lost, the last, the unkind. We are the Warriors on the Edge of Time and we're tired, we're tired... We're tired of making love..."
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Post by JKristine35 »

volpe3fuego, the only thing Gans says in that interview is that he told Jodelle that she would be playing the devil, he was probably thinking that this would make her more likely to accept. We know the character's not the devil because he says elsewhere he hired Jodelle to play 'multiple incarnations of a same character' and he has stated in multiple interviews that she's not the devil. We also know he told Jodelle what her character really was later, because she also says she's not the devil.
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Post by AuraTwilight »

And furthermore, according to Jodelle and Gans, Dark Alessa and Sharon represent Alessa's potential, like all people, to be her own God or Devil.
[quote="BlackFire2"]I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.[/quote]
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Post by JKristine35 »

We really need to make an FAQ thread on this board and sticky it.
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rm2kking
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Post by rm2kking »

I agree. The whole Dark Alessa thing seems to breed much confusion in people.
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I dreamed I lay in a dark valley and all around me were the titanic forms of archangels. I heard distant voices and I knew these supernatural warriors were chanting a litany...
"We are the Warriors at the End of Time. We are the lost, the last, the unkind. We are the Warriors on the Edge of Time and we're tired, we're tired... We're tired of making love..."
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Post by Squarehead »

I disagree. We already have topics, quicklinks and moderators. If there was supposed to be a definitive answer to everything the whole goddamn movie wouldn't have been so ambiguous. I don't want someone's opinions to be forced as the definitive answer to the movie. It would go against everything this forum stands for.

Who is it really that needs this FAQ, i wonder?
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Post by rm2kking »

Not when many people assume Alessa channels Satan, something that the director himself has said is not true.

Also, not when many people assume they were dead the whole movie, something the director also has debunked.
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I dreamed I lay in a dark valley and all around me were the titanic forms of archangels. I heard distant voices and I knew these supernatural warriors were chanting a litany...
"We are the Warriors at the End of Time. We are the lost, the last, the unkind. We are the Warriors on the Edge of Time and we're tired, we're tired... We're tired of making love..."
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Post by AuraTwilight »

What's the point in speculation if the speculation is objectively wrong? That would be like someone claiming that the President of America isn't a born citizen of the United States.
[quote="BlackFire2"]I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.[/quote]
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Post by rm2kking »

Quite indeedly to the doodely.
The movie breeds much confusion in the realm of afterlife and hellishness, both of which are false.
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I dreamed I lay in a dark valley and all around me were the titanic forms of archangels. I heard distant voices and I knew these supernatural warriors were chanting a litany...
"We are the Warriors at the End of Time. We are the lost, the last, the unkind. We are the Warriors on the Edge of Time and we're tired, we're tired... We're tired of making love..."
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Post by JKristine35 »

Squarehead wrote:If there was supposed to be a definitive answer to everything the whole goddamn movie wouldn't have been so ambiguous. I don't want someone's opinions to be forced as the definitive answer to the movie.
Are you saying that things like Sharon, Dark Alessa, whether the townspeople are dead or not, and the meaning of the alternate realms are 'someone's opinions'?
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Post by volpe3fuego »

JRamirez35 wrote:volpe3fuego, the only thing Gans says in that interview is that he told Jodelle that she would be playing the devil, he was probably thinking that this would make her more likely to accept. We know the character's not the devil because he says elsewhere he hired Jodelle to play 'multiple incarnations of a same character' and he has stated in multiple interviews that she's not the devil. We also know he told Jodelle what her character really was later, because she also says she's not the devil.
Hey there. Well, I hope I don't come off as rude or anything like that, but here goes. No offense, but unless you read Gans' mind, I don't think he was just telling Jodelle that so that she could accept the part. If you don't mind, I'd like to know where these other sources are because all I found are interviews w/ Gans that have been posted online and of course, the DvD's Behind-the-Scenes featurette and none of those have any evidence of Gans or Jodelle confirming or denying that Dark Alessa isn't the devil. Not saying that what you're saying isn't probably true, I just like proof ^^ I read this interview IGN had with him and it states something very interesting towards the end:

Gans says that his favorite scene involves a view into Heaven. "In the film, I have to transcribe Hell and Purgatory. The darkness is Hell and of course the foggy dimension is Purgatory. At one moment, I have to shoot something which looked like Heaven. I think it's my favorite sequence in the film…"

*sigh* Back to the Dark Alessa is/isn't the devil thing, I think I should be free to guess and interpret the ambiguity of a movie's ending. I don't mean to bring religion in my interpretation, but when the movie has elements that delve into fanatical religious ideals and beliefs, it's a little hard not to. Yes, Dark Alessa is the evil of Alessa but I strongly feel that the devil manifested itself into this form ("I have many names....right now, I'm the dark part of Alessa."). I'm not trying to shove my opinion down people's throats or claim that it is the official "right" one because quite honestly, I don't think that's something that fans can do. Only the directors can confirm any of this.
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Post by volpe3fuego »

Squarehead wrote:I disagree. We already have topics, quicklinks and moderators. If there was supposed to be a definitive answer to everything the whole goddamn movie wouldn't have been so ambiguous. I don't want someone's opinions to be forced as the definitive answer to the movie. It would go against everything this forum stands for.
I also disagree about the whole FAQs thing. I mean, who are we to say which one way is right and which one way is wrong? I mean, okay, I get if someone were to say something weird like, "Red Pyramid is the manifestation of cheese", then yeah, that'd be something to argue about. But I don't think we should have an FAQ that says that "this is the right answer because this fan says so". Who's anyone to judge? Isn't the whole point of a forum and discussion board to talk and discuss these topics openly with everyone? There are many ways to interpret things that may seem unclear or undefined ; that's what "ambiguity" means...and as far as I'm concerned, anything that's ambiguous and cryptic is anyone's ballgame
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Post by JKristine35 »

No offense, but unless you read Gans' mind, I don't think he was just telling Jodelle that so that she could accept the part. If you don't mind, I'd like to know where these other sources are because all I found are interviews w/ Gans that have been posted online and of course, the DvD's Behind-the-Scenes featurette and none of those have any evidence of Gans or Jodelle confirming or denying that Dark Alessa isn't the devil.
These exact quotes are located in at least six different threads on this same board.

(Jodelle Ferland)

I also play Dark Alessa who is the bad part of Alessa.
Source: http://www.jodelle-ferland.net/media/re ... hill02.php

(Jodelle Ferland)

Dark Alessa is sort of the bad part of Alessa, so that's why she's so scary and strange.
Source: http://www.jodelle-ferland.net/media/tr ... rans01.php

(Christophe Gans)

If we want to explain what happened with Alessa, we are dealing with the theme of doppelgangers. For every fan that has read the synopsis of the first game's story in the strategy guide of Silent Hill 3, they all know that we are dealing with doppelgangers--and it's a very cross-cultural concept, both Japan and Europe have this myth. But in Japan, it means that every character has aspects of a God and aspects of a devil inside them. It's a very shocking concept if we attempt to transpose that into a North American, traditionally Christian perspective. The line between good and evil is much more clearly in North America, especially today. And here we are dealing with a character who has the capacity to split, and when you realize that Alessa is no longer one character, but many, it explains the story of the town. It's interesting because the town itself mirrors this fractured psychology--different dimensions, different doubles of the same person.
Source: http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=660 ... Id=1002415

(Christophe Gans)

Perhaps the common link between all the stories of the Silent Hill world is the concept that this is a place where both reality and personality can be split. I like the fact that this is where many dimensions intersect, and where you can exist on many planes. This fracturing between realities is reflected as a fracturing within a character. Characters can become multiple, like Mary and Maria in Silent Hill 2, and Alessa in SH1. Because this is such an abstract concept, this was the most challenging aspect of trying to adapt the game. The first game tells the amazing story of an adult woman who also exists as two little girls, good and bad doubles representing who she was when she was hurt.
We are forced to realize in Silent Hill that we can be our own devil, our own God. This very Asian perception is so completely different to the Anglo/Christian concept of God and the Devil as separate beings.

Source: http://www.sonypictures.com/movies/sile ... ng_sil.php

(Christophe Gans)

When I was writing the script, I was wondering how I could find a little girl who would be able to act different incarnations of a same character. To play them, I needed a remarkably mature child.
Source: http://www.silenthill-lefilm.com/

So basically, not only is he confirming that Alessa is split into three parts in these interviews (Sharon, Alessa, Dark Alessa), he's also saying that there's nothing Christian about the storyline of the film and outright defining 'the devil' as the dark side of the soul.
I read this interview IGN had with him and it states something very interesting towards the end:

Gans says that his favorite scene involves a view into Heaven. "In the film, I have to transcribe Hell and Purgatory. The darkness is Hell and of course the foggy dimension is Purgatory. At one moment, I have to shoot something which looked like Heaven. I think it's my favorite sequence in the film…"
Unless you are seriously claiming that our world is literally Heaven, he's being metaphorical in that statement, as he is referring to our dimension as Heaven.
He gives a direct interpretation of what the dark world really is in this interview:
It's a town of people trapped in dark dreams, and she inflicts onto the town what those people did to her body. That is, to me, the meaning of the darkness. The appearance of the town is corrupted in the way that her own flesh was wounded.
Source: http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=660 ... Id=1002415
How is it literally hell if he's saying it's controlled by Alessa? Why would hell be composed of a single little girl's dark dreams? Do you realize that the concept of purgatory presented in the film is the opposite of that seen in the Bible, meaning that it's not meant to be literally Purgatory?
*sigh* Back to the Dark Alessa is/isn't the devil thing, I think I should be free to guess and interpret the ambiguity of a movie's ending.
The director has stated that it is a fact that there are no Christian beings in the film, making the film not ambiguous on that count.
I don't mean to bring religion in my interpretation, but when the movie has elements that delve into fanatical religious ideals and beliefs, it's a little hard not to. Yes, Dark Alessa is the evil of Alessa but I strongly feel that the devil manifested itself into this form ("I have many names....right now, I'm the dark part of Alessa."). I'm not trying to shove my opinion down people's throats or claim that it is the official "right" one because quite honestly, I don't think that's something that fans can do. Only the directors can confirm any of this.
As I just showed you, he has proven it. And he has also stated that the base religion of the film is one in which the concept of 'devil' is the dark side of the soul. In other words, there is no literal devil seen anywhere in the film.
I also disagree about the whole FAQs thing. I mean, who are we to say which one way is right and which one way is wrong? I mean, okay, I get if someone were to say something weird like, "Red Pyramid is the manifestation of cheese", then yeah, that'd be something to argue about. But I don't think we should have an FAQ that says that "this is the right answer because this fan says so". Who's anyone to judge? Isn't the whole point of a forum and discussion board to talk and discuss these topics openly with everyone? There are many ways to interpret things that may seem unclear or undefined ; that's what "ambiguity" means...and as far as I'm concerned, anything that's ambiguous and cryptic is anyone's ballgame
All of the things people are confused about that would warrant an FAQ (Sharon's identity, Dark Alessa's identity, the meaning of the alternate dimensions, whether the townspeople are dead or not) has been directly confirmed by the director. There is no ambiguity on any of these subjects. You yourself have proven why an FAQ is needed, as I have now had to post the exact same quotes yet again because someone didn't see them in the myriad of other threads they appear in.

One last thing, double posting is against the rules here.
Last edited by JKristine35 on 29 Jul 2009, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by rm2kking »

This whole debate is stupid and illogical. Facts and non-facts =/= opinions. Period. End of discussion.

See everything in the above post for why, if you want exact details.
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Post by neonblack »

It's funny because in those interviews Gans mentions that the western, Christianized perception of good and evil, god and devil would be hard to get around. Seems you guys have fallen for it.

Aspects in Shinto and Buddhism are very similar to Alessa/Alessa/Sharon, not only in duality, but also in trinity, which is what Gans was trying to portray, according to Gans.

I'm all for open interpretation but a FAQ would be nice. There are some things which are blatantly wrong, according to the creators, and getting through these things will help to produce more valid interpretations.
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Post by Squarehead »

Look, people - including the makers - have been arguing over that unicorn in Blade Runner for 27 years even though the director has stated what the true interpretation was, and that case was much less ambiguous than anything in Silent Hill IMHO. If there's gonna be a FAQ, it shouldn't be restricted to having just one interpretation of things.
You yourself have proven why an FAQ is needed, as I have now had to post the exact same quotes yet again because someone didn't see them in the myriad of other threads they appear in.
I don't think you had to do anything.
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Post by alone in the town »

>I also play Dark Alessa who is the bad part of Alessa.
>Dark Alessa is sort of the bad part of Alessa, so that's why she's so scary and strange.

I'm interested to know: Does this mean that Dark Alessa is truly an evil being, because Jodelle Ferland says she is, or is she calling Dark Alessa 'bad' because, in her youth, she interprets the characters' actions as 'evil' due to her not understanding the concept of moral ambiguity?

For point of reference, Terminator's SkyNet. It certainly perpetrates a lot of evils, but the system itself is not evil. It does not kill for pleasure. It kills simply because it considers humanity a threat to its existence. The Terminators it sends to do its killing are not evil, because they act according to their programming. We might think of them as an evil because of their acts and threat, but SkyNet might consider humans evil for precisely the same reason.

In that same sense, the cult in this movie isn't 'evil'. They simply use very unpleasant methods to deal with perceived threats, and are blinded by their own doctrine. They are not rampaging marauders who kill for thrills.

I, for one, never considered Dark Alessa to be 'bad' or 'evil', either. Assuming that she truly is the manifestation of Alessa's darkest emotions, well, Alessa had every reason in the world to have those darkest emotions. By that virtue alone, Dark Alessa's existence is justified.

Silent Hill is not about good and evil, which is noted in the contrast to Christianity (in which God and the Devil personify absolute good and absolute evil). It is, in essence, a clash of conflicting motives.
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