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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: 2004 Silent Hill Script
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Jun 2009
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^Thank you, so much. Reminds me that I'm not one against a million here. That goes to the heart of the whole street names thing, I think.

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 Post subject: Re: 2004 Silent Hill Script

Missing since: 26 Apr 2009
Notes left: 3219
JKristine35 wrote:
We barely even know anything about this movie, other than that it's obviously not supposed to be part of the game canon, yet it seems certain people are bitching about everything. I'm actually amazed at the negativity on this board, over a movie that's never claimed to be canon and that isn't even finished filming yet. I come here to discuss the sequel to my favorite movie, but it seems a lot of others are only hanging around this board to see what they can complain about next... :(


Certain people are bitching about everything because certain writers and directors are changing everything. It's nice that some of you prefer to look at the movie as a "different canon" and feel that they should be able to change everything about the source material. But a lot of people don't look at it like that. We look at it as an adaptation and generally a fanbase wants an adaptation to be as faithful as possible while only changing what needs to be changed to make logically sense and stay interesting as a movie. It's NOT the same thing as a different video game being set in a different canon, because that different video game would not be an adaptation. If they wanted to make their own SH story then they should have made their own SH story. Some people would much have preferred that then seeing characters and a story they loved being turned into a watered-down boring story with annoying versions of the characters.

So, yeah, we are going to have to learn to deal with the fact that some people are able to look past that and enjoy the SH movie. But you guys are going to have to learn to deal with the fact that some of us can't.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: 2004 Silent Hill Script
     
         
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Missing since: 10 May 2006
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Last seen at: My Slinky! My cuddly little pet Slinky! *sobs*
Like how some people lose their shit over SH:SM? There was never a disclaimer that the movie wouldn't be faithful to the games (I only joined the forum after the first movie came out, so I wasn't keeping tabs on the development), so it was surprising to me when it wasn't.* SH:SM, however, was always publicized as AU, but half the forum beats on it like a red-headed child for being just that.

The world is full of funny contradictions, innit?

JKristine35 wrote:
I've been feeling the same way about the movie board, but for a very different reason: the whining. We barely even know anything about this movie, other than that it's obviously not supposed to be part of the game canon, yet it seems certain people are bitching about everything.
Go visit the early threads under Homecoming, Origins, SM and now Downpour, from before they were published. It's the same all over with the negativity. Again, I'm absolutely convinced that it's the medium that's the only difference between the acceptability of the "whining" about games and the movies.
...Now that I think about it, when I'm in the game threads pre-publishing, I'm making posts arguing for optimism over whining, like yours here, JKristine- it's like Through the Looking Glass in here.


*I really liked it, actually. I think my first post on here was a review describing how much I liked it. In fact, having finally gotten some sleep, I change my mind back from what I said last night and conclude that I'll still probably go out and see this one, and probably enjoy it like the first one.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: 2004 Silent Hill Script
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Jun 2009
Notes left: 2868
^Sorry if I kind of blew my top earlier, but Adversary's insult really pissed me off. I'm a lot calmer now.

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 Post subject: Re: 2004 Silent Hill Script

Missing since: 26 Apr 2009
Notes left: 3219
lain of the wired wrote:
...Now that I think about it, when I'm in the game threads pre-publishing, I'm making posts arguing for optimism over whining, like yours here, JKristine- it's like Through the Looking Glass in here.


So am I, but there is a distinct difference. When a new game is being made, it has a new story, and things are mostly kept hushhush. You can't really TELL if you are going to like the game yet or if it will disappoint you, so most of the people who were bashing the newer games the moment they were released were just, in my opinion, being silly. Whereas with an adaptation, once it gets revealed that they are drastically changing the story and characters, you know if that sort of thing is going to piss you off or not, so you can tell if you'll like it a lot sooner.

A new game and an adaptation of an old game just have very different purposes and expectations.

Although I have said many times that I personally will give the movie a chance. I knew I was going to see if Day 1 the moment it was announced because it's Silent Hill. I just expect to have it give me something new to bitch about as opposed to gush over now.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: 2004 Silent Hill Script
     
         
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Missing since: 10 May 2006
Notes left: 4658
Last seen at: My Slinky! My cuddly little pet Slinky! *sobs*
^That's pretty much how I feel. Maybe I've been bitching because I've got cognitive dissonance over knowing that, for all the morals I want to say I hold about series integrity and "being the change I want to see in the world" in changing the shitty Hollywood process... I'm still gonna go see it when it premiers just because it's Silent Hill. :oops:

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Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: 2004 Silent Hill Script
     
         
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Missing since: 30 Mar 2011
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I'm beginning to look at it like this: there's a sort of web of qualities that make Silent Hill enjoyable to experience. Some things about Silent Hill are near the center of that web, so changing them makes everything fall apart. Others are just fringes on the edge of the web. Costumes, street names and protagonist genitalia are in this latter category, which is why Rose's presence in the first movie didn't bother me (and I wasn't even looking for street names, to be honest). Unfortunately, some central-web aspects of Silent Hill, like the Order and Pyramid Head proper--"jibatsuishiki" according to the developers, were pretty much jettisoned for more Hollywood appeal, which I did not like.

The sequel cannot patch up parts of the web that were poked out by Gans and Avery, since it's a sequel. They're not working from the original design to begin with, so there need to be changes, and so far, none of them have struck me as being too close to the core. Vincent needed to be changed; arguably he was changed in the first movie when they altered the cult's purpose with Alessa. That took away their ability to faithfully represent most of the characters we'll be seeing, and even some of the monsters, notably Valtiel. It's disappointing, but nothing anybody could have averted, so I'm not wasting any breath complaining about it.


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 Post subject: Re: 2004 Silent Hill Script

Missing since: 26 Apr 2009
Notes left: 3219
Vincent had to be changed, but not into a completely different character. His personality and as much of his intentions as possible could very much have remained.

And it's also not impossible for them to make The Order in the new movie either. They'd have to make stuff up, sure, but it could have been done. Say a few members of the "BURN THE WITCH" cult secretly belonged to a different religion and were using their witch burnings to attempt to carry out their own rituals in secret without the others knowing. Boom. You got The Order established as mysterious and manipulative and you've set the stage for SH3's story AND characters in the movie world. And that's just one possible way they can go at it. I'm sure professional writers can do much better jobs as well.

Just because it's a sequel to the first SH movie does not mean they have to change Vincent's entire personality and role simply for the sake of being different from the game, which is more or less why he is doing it, according to his blog.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: 2004 Silent Hill Script
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Jun 2009
Notes left: 2868
What helps matters the most is the fact that Gans confirmed that the Order does exist in the movies in opposition to the Manichean cult seen in the first movie. Regarding Vincent, all that's actually been confirmed is that MJB is doing something different with him, so I think there's a good chance that movie Vincent will be at least recognizable.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: 2004 Silent Hill Script
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Oct 2009
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KiramidHead wrote:
What helps matters the most is the fact that Gans confirmed that the Order does exist in the movies in opposition to the Manichean cult seen in the first movie. Regarding Vincent, all that's actually been confirmed is that MJB is doing something different with him, so I think there's a good chance that movie Vincent will be at least recognizable.


This. Bassett has said that he wants to keep aspects of Vincent's character but change him to be more fitting to be on-screen in film.

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 Post subject: Re: 2004 Silent Hill Script

Missing since: 26 Apr 2009
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Working under the assumptions that the spoilers that were leaked are true, that's far too much of a change for me.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: 2004 Silent Hill Script
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Jun 2009
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That's the problem, you're working under an assumption. My advice is to ignore potential spoilers and let the movie reveal itself to you when it comes out.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: 2004 Silent Hill Script
     
         
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Missing since: 10 May 2006
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Last seen at: My Slinky! My cuddly little pet Slinky! *sobs*
^True, that's the best thing to do, but SH fans tend to be curious info-hunters by nature: it's haaaaaaard not to peek!
KingCrimson wrote:
Costumes, street names and protagonist genitalia are in this latter category, which is why Rose's presence in the first movie didn't bother me (and I wasn't even looking for street names, to be honest). Unfortunately, some central-web aspects of Silent Hill, like the Order and Pyramid Head proper--"jibatsuishiki" according to the developers, were pretty much jettisoned for more Hollywood appeal, which I did not like.
Part of the complaining about little things is the feeling of sorta being kicked while down: after the important stuff has been thrown out so unceremoniously for marketing purposes, all that's really left of the games are nods to the imagery and the accuracy of town itself, and then that's chucked too, or used in ways that make people who've written researched, 10 page long theories about the meaning of the games cry. It's somewhat irrational thinking, true, but it is what it is.
KingCrimson wrote:
That took away their ability to faithfully represent most of the characters we'll be seeing, and even some of the monsters, notably Valtiel.
Aww man, you had to remind me he's at risk... he's my goddamn favorite monster of any video game ever. :( But you do make a good point about them having lost that ability.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: 2004 Silent Hill Script
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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Hell for all we know Vincent is blind and Heather's holding his hand to help him walk. Chill the fuck out guys.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: 2004 Silent Hill Script
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Jun 2009
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^Or they come to view each other in a brother-sister way. Really, relationship is the worst case scenario, and even that could be handled well.

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 Post subject: Re: 2004 Silent Hill Script

Missing since: 26 Apr 2009
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When it comes to the "little things" like names and streets or whatever, I again direct to Phelous, as he puts it well enough, I feel.
http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videol ... hill-again

"[...] the audience going to see this movie who know the series will wonder 'why?' and the rest of the audience will be oblivious either way. So all it does is serve to annoy fans."

Yeah, the little stuff doesn't really matter that much in the long run, but part of the fun of seeing an adaptation of something you love is enjoying all the little stuff meant directly for you. It'd take NO change in effort for them to name the streets after streets in the games, or not change the character's names, or other little details like that. There is no point in changing them, so why change them?

Does it matter in the long run? No, of course something like this would never be a "deal breaker". It's just mildly annoying and a bit disappointing. But as Lain said, after the stuff in the movie that WAS a deal breaker for many, they became like small bits of salt in the wound. There is no logical reason to change it, so it's just annoying that they did.


And as for us reacting to the leaked spoilers, yeah, maybe we are being rash. Personally, I'm more annoyed [edit: I accidentally originally said "I'm more annoying" here, which I thought was funny, so I thought I'd break the flow of my paragraph by sharing it...] at the OTHER person with them and what that means won't be happening in the film. But it's not just the spoilers we are reacting to. The director pretty much came right out and said that he is changing stuff simply for the sake of being different from the game. So, that's what is really motivating the annoyance over it. But of course I'm going to give it a chance and if I like it then I'll be the first to glowingly admit I had wrongly prejudged it. But I simply don't expect that to happen.


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 Post subject: Re: 2004 Silent Hill Script
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Jun 2009
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Basset isn't changing tings just for the lolz, he has his own vision that he wants to express on the screen. That's part of what an adaptation is, i.e. the filmmaker's take on the source material. Whether his vision will translate into a good movie has yet to be seen, although I doubt it will be as big of a clusterfuck as the upcoming Dark Tower adaptation is shaping up to be..

Regarding the ending thing, Chris Da Silva is one of like three Sean Bean characters that doesn't die. I'm all for throwing him a bone. Live or die, it looks like Harry's role has been expanded from the game, which should prove interesting.

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 Post subject: Re: 2004 Silent Hill Script

Missing since: 26 Apr 2009
Notes left: 3219
KiramidHead wrote:
That's part of what an adaptation is, i.e. the filmmaker's take on the source material.


If they want to do that, then make an original story set in SH based on the source material of "the SH series overall". When you take a specific story and adapt it, most fans expect it to remain as faithful as possible. Because if you wanted and original story with original characters and original themes that have little to nothing to do with the specific source material you picked, then what is the point of even "basing" it on a specific game? Again, my Lord of the Rings comparison. A good deal of fans complain about the already rather tame (imo) changes Peter Jackson made. I'd love to see them react to a LotR movie that got the same treatment as the SH movie...


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: 2004 Silent Hill Script
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Jun 2009
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He has a lot more hurdles to jump over than that, though. He has to stay as faithful as he can to the game while respecting the first movie at the same time. That's a tall order.

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Screenplay Archaeology Podcast - PUNISHER EPISODE IS UP!


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 Post subject: Re: 2004 Silent Hill Script

Missing since: 26 Apr 2009
Notes left: 3219
KiramidHead wrote:
He has a lot more hurdles to jump over than that, though. He has to stay as faithful as he can to the game while respecting the first movie at the same time. That's a tall order.


Well, my Lord of the Rings comparison is more directed to the first movie, sure. But I'm aware of that, which is part of the reason why I think it'd be better for them to make an original story set in SH than a SH3 adaptation. You are kinda just adding to my point.

Although, I said earlier that it's not nearly as hard as it seems to have a SH3 movie as a sequel to the first SH movie. All you have to do is wiggle something similar to the game's Order in the first movie's backstory and say they were doing things to Alessa in secret, and you've got perfect grounds to remain as faithful as possible to both SH3 and the first movie.


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