Search FAQ

Login | Register


All times are UTC [ DST ]


It is currently 18 Oct 2017




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 38 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Otherside Transitions Theory
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 01 Jun 2009
Notes left: 2868
I didn't see anything resembling my theory in the quicklinks, so here goes.

The idea I'm about to present came to me while I was watching the movie last weekend. I was thinking about why Dark Alessa would plunge Rose into the Otherside when she was needed in order to finalize Alessa's revenge. I carefully considered each Otherside scene and came up the following idea: All Otherside transitions occur in order to assist Rose, not hinder her.
The very first such transition that occured in the alley served as a relatively harmless introduction to the terrors Rose would face while within SH. I say relatively because, while the gray children could undoubtedly have killed Rose, they were pretty slow moving and could be evaded. And, when the children are about to overwhelm Rose despite their slowness, Alessa calls off the Otherside.
In considering the next transition in the school, this theory also holds ground. The transition only occurs when the cultists are attempting to break down the door to the bathroom. As this happens, Rose seems to be begging for help. Dark Alessa, knowing that Rose was a good mother to Sharon, as well as being aware of the very real possibility of the cultists burning Rose, once again triggers an Otherside transition. This once again happens in area with a slow moving, easily evaded enemy, in this case, the janitor. However, when Rose leaves the room, she is in even greater danger from Pyramid Head and his cockroach entourage. Many SH fans have commented on their confusion as to why Dark Alessa would have PH attack her. I believe their are two explanations for PH's attack, neither of which involve any malevolence on Dark Alessa's part. I think that PH is there to punish the cultists, and there are two explanations for why he extended his attack to Rose and then Cybil:

1)The cockroaches killed the cultists before PH could get there, and in his anger he attacked Rose and Cybil.
2)PH has limited intelligence, and therefore had dificulty distinguishing Rose and Cybil from the female cultists, who didn't wear mining outfits like the men did.

Either way, PH gets out of control, and Dark Alessa the calls off the Otherside when Rose is in danger of dying.
Now, the next transition (on the church steps) is a bit more difficult to explain. I think that, once again, Dark Alessa was trying to keep Alessa away from the cultists and Christabella. Dark Alessa began to trigger the transition while Rose, Cybil, and Anna were in the old warehouse adjoining the hotel. After Rose finds Dark Alessa's clue there, Cybil and Anna enter the room. Dark Alessa realizes that they have stumbled upon a cultist and now know that there are more people in the town. The Otherside is manifested in order to keep Rose away from the church at all costs. The final bit with PH is simply a response to Anna's abuse of Dahlia. His throwing of her skin in the direction of Rose was not meant as an insult to her, but was rather an attempt to desecrate the church.
There are only one or two such manifestations left to cover, one of which is slightly contentious. The first is mere speculation, but I believe it is possible that a personal transition occured for Rose in the elevator. This simply assisted her in communicating with Dark Alessa. The wall of nurses was there simply to make sure that Rose could deal with an easily deceived enemy, symbolic of the way in which the cultists deceived themselves by hiding from the truth as the nurses hid from the light. The final transition occured in the church. Rose was not hurt at all because the only monsters there were Dark Alessa and Alessa, who recognized Rose and the assistance she had given.

Thoughts? :)

_________________
It's not that far.

Screenplay Archaeology Podcast - FRIDAY THE 13TH EPISODE IS UP!


Top
   
 

Subway Guard
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 12 May 2008
Notes left: 1684
Last seen at: Houston, Tx.
Most of what you just wrote is spot-on, with a few things off. All of the monsters in Alessa's world attack Rose, so it's not that she sent PH after Rose, she just simply plunged her into the Otherworld and sat back and watched what happened. Alessa triggers the Otherworld in the hotel because she wants Rose to go the church and meet the cultists, which is why Rose says 'All I know is I'm supposed to be here.' Alessa knows Christabella won't burn Rose on sight until she has a reason to and that she will lead Rose to the hospital when Rose demands to find 'the demon'. In short, Alessa's giving Rose a taste of what she's going to see later, and making Rose even more wary of the cult. In meeting the cult and seeing what they're like, Alessa is making her story more believable for when she tells it to Rose later on.


Top
   
 

Moderator
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 15 Apr 2004
Notes left: 11052
Last seen at: In the anals of forum history
I've always assumed that Rose and Cybil were attacked initially because their motives were unclear to Alessa. As in, she assumes you're an enemy until you make her believe otherwise.

_________________
Image


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 01 Jun 2009
Notes left: 2868
That all makes sense, it's just that I assumed that Rose was in the right place, wrong time, when PH showed up. And the school transition happened right as she was about to be caught by the cultists, it just seemed to fit.

_________________
It's not that far.

Screenplay Archaeology Podcast - FRIDAY THE 13TH EPISODE IS UP!


Top
   
 

Subway Guard
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 12 May 2008
Notes left: 1684
Last seen at: Houston, Tx.
alone in the town wrote:
I've always assumed that Rose and Cybil were attacked initially because their motives were unclear to Alessa. As in, she assumes you're an enemy until you make her believe otherwise.

I don't see where Alessa ever seemed to think Rose was an enemy. She was certainly testing her throughout the movie to make sure that Rose would be able to handle the task she had in store for her, but it wasn't because she felt Rose wasn't to be trusted. If Alessa had ever not trusted Rose, she would simply have taken Sharon away from her- not pushed Sharon to bring her into the town. Had Alessa really launched the grey children on Rose because she saw her as an enemy, she wouldn't have lifted the darkness less than 5 minutes later when Rose became overwhelmed.


Top
   
 

Moderator
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 15 Apr 2004
Notes left: 11052
Last seen at: In the anals of forum history
I don't think Alessa is, by that point, consciously attacking. Besides Dahlia, everyone in town is her enemy. It could very well be that the monsters are compelled to attack anyone who breathes and isn't Dahlia Gillespie.

After all, they attack Cybil, too, at first--and she is neither Alessa's enemy nor her prospective ally.

_________________
Image


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
I can't imagine Alessa losing control of her monsters, or not knowing Rose's motives.

She had Pyramid Head attack her in the school for one very simple reason: To make Cybil aware of what the shit is going down, and thus become Rose's bodyguard.

_________________
BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


Top
   
 

Moderator
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 15 Apr 2004
Notes left: 11052
Last seen at: In the anals of forum history
AuraTwilight wrote:
I can't imagine Alessa losing control of her monsters, or not knowing Rose's motives.

She had Pyramid Head attack her in the school for one very simple reason: To make Cybil aware of what the shit is going down, and thus become Rose's bodyguard.


Think less along the lines of "losing control" and more along the lines of "granting autonomy." Alessa doesn't need to manually direct every manifestation. Her enemies can't escape, and they can't replenish their numbers. She has all the time in the world, and her victory is inevitable. The cultists had their holy bunker, but they couldn't stay inside forever. They had to forage for supplies, and this leaves them open to an attack against which there is really no defense. They'd be picked off, one by one, until they were all gone.

Rose was never necessary for Alessa to win. She just helped speed things up by a few decades.

_________________
Image


Top
   
 

Subway Guard
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 12 May 2008
Notes left: 1684
Last seen at: Houston, Tx.
Quote:
I don't think Alessa is, by that point, consciously attacking. Besides Dahlia, everyone in town is her enemy. It could very well be that the monsters are compelled to attack anyone who breathes and isn't Dahlia Gillespie.

After all, they attack Cybil, too, at first--and she is neither Alessa's enemy nor her prospective ally.

The timing of the coming and going of the Otherworld suggests Alessa is actively using it to test Rose and how far she's willing to go for Sharon. We see this same testing throughout the rest of the movie: in forcing Rose to reach into a corpse's mouth, jump across a large hole, willingly descend into the darkness, etc. From Laurie Holden's comments, it's suggested that Cybil was brought into the town by Alessa to protect Rose, which makes a little bit of sense seeing as Cybil had previously been in SH when a boy was dropped down a mine vent. Alessa would have seen that, and would know of her strength and love for children.
Quote:
Think less along the lines of "losing control" and more along the lines of "granting autonomy." Alessa doesn't need to manually direct every manifestation. Her enemies can't escape, and they can't replenish their numbers. She has all the time in the world, and her victory is inevitable. The cultists had their holy bunker, but they couldn't stay inside forever. They had to forage for supplies, and this leaves them open to an attack against which there is really no defense. They'd be picked off, one by one, until they were all gone.

The thing about that is that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for Alessa not to be able to enter their church, seeing as she's not a demon. My idea is that she knows she can enter there any time she likes- but she doesn't want Christabella to die thinking she's some great martyr who did a wonderful thing by burning a child. My guess is that it's more of a 'I don't want to go in there until they know the truth', as compared to a 'I can't go in there until they know the truth'. Which makes Rose's assistance very necessary. Besides that, Alessa has to make sure Rose is a good mother to Sharon because she will be the one to take Alessa home once she's recombined and back in one vulnerable body again.


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 01 Jun 2009
Notes left: 2868
I personally think that the collective will of the cultists, combined with the town's innate power, is what keeps Dark Alessa from entering the church directly. Of course, the movie doesn't mention that the town has any power of it's own, but the idea dovetails nicely with the knowledge we have from the games.

_________________
It's not that far.

Screenplay Archaeology Podcast - FRIDAY THE 13TH EPISODE IS UP!


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
I wouldn't assume Movie Silent Hill has any power of it's own, considering it has a different layout, a different history and religious backround, characters, and even deity.

Ramirez basically said most of what I was going to say, but lemme hit a few things.

Quote:
Think less along the lines of "losing control" and more along the lines of "granting autonomy." Alessa doesn't need to manually direct every manifestation.


Yes, but in any and all cases, the monsters do obey what she wants.

Quote:
Her enemies can't escape, and they can't replenish their numbers.


Tell that to Anna, who was born and raised in the Otherworld, apparently (proven by the original script if we're going to take that for anything).

Quote:
Rose was never necessary for Alessa to win. She just helped speed things up by a few decades.


Without Rose, Alessa wouldn't have her ultimate victory, though. Both the moral victory over Christabella, and also the ability to become complete again and live with a new, better, perfect mother.

_________________
BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


Top
   
 

Moderator
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 15 Apr 2004
Notes left: 11052
Last seen at: In the anals of forum history
AuraTwilight wrote:
Yes, but in any and all cases, the monsters do obey what she wants.


True. What I can't square is that Alessa was just putting Rose and Cybil through orientation class.

Quote:
Tell that to Anna, who was born and raised in the Otherworld, apparently (proven by the original script if we're going to take that for anything).


Anna kind of underscores my point: Twenty years to make her, twenty seconds to unmake her. ;D

Quote:
Without Rose, Alessa wouldn't have her ultimate victory, though. Both the moral victory over Christabella, and also the ability to become complete again and live with a new, better, perfect mother.


But, as far as I can understand, Alessa never operated under the assumption that Super Mom's involvement was a given, or that she had any idea that Rose (or Cybil) were ostensible allies right from the start.

Further, if she has total control over the duration of the Otherworld manifestations, why not just leave them on all day, every day? That'd throw a nice wrench into the cult's plan.

_________________
Image


Top
   
 

Subway Guard
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 12 May 2008
Notes left: 1684
Last seen at: Houston, Tx.
Quote:
I wouldn't assume Movie Silent Hill has any power of it's own, considering it has a different layout, a different history and religious backround, characters, and even deity.

The only thing I could find is that the clocks in both the fog world and the Otherworld are frozen at the same time, suggesting Alessa created both realms at the same time. It also tells us it was 3:46 am when her soul split.
Quote:
True. What I can't square is that Alessa was just putting Rose and Cybil through orientation class.

According to Laurie Holden, Cybil is just there to protect Rose, so the show isn't for Cybil, it's for Rose. Alessa constantly tests Rose throughout the movie, so there's no reason plunging her into the Otherworld would be any different than all the other things Alessa makes her do to find Sharon. Considering that Alessa protects Rose at all points by having the darkness lift as soon as she's in any real danger, she couldn't be actively trying to harm Rose.
Quote:
But, as far as I can understand, Alessa never operated under the assumption that Super Mom's involvement was a given, or that she had any idea that Rose (or Cybil) were ostensible allies right from the start.

Why wouldn't she? Alessa could see the world through Sharon's eyes, so she knew how much Rose loved Sharon, and considering Rose had already defied both her husband and the police for Sharon, she couldn't have not known Rose's intentions. Laurie Holden (and I'm pretty sure Gans uses the same wording too) says Cybil was 'brought in', suggesting that Alessa purposely brought her into her worlds to protect Rose. Alessa manipulated everything that happened right from the beginning.
Quote:
Further, if she has total control over the duration of the Otherworld manifestations, why not just leave them on all day, every day? That'd throw a nice wrench into the cult's plan.

If she did that, then the cultists would just huddle in the church and eventually die of starvation. What's starvation to being able to watch them be disemboweled/eaten/have their skin ripped off/etc., especially when what they did to her was so painful. She seems to use the fog world as a lure to draw out cultists, then she drops the Otherworld before all of them can get back to the church.


Top
   
 

Moderator
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 15 Apr 2004
Notes left: 11052
Last seen at: In the anals of forum history
Quote:
Why wouldn't she? Alessa could see the world through Sharon's eyes, so she knew how much Rose loved Sharon, and considering Rose had already defied both her husband and the police for Sharon, she couldn't have not known Rose's intentions. Laurie Holden (and I'm pretty sure Gans uses the same wording too) says Cybil was 'brought in', suggesting that Alessa purposely brought her into her worlds to protect Rose. Alessa manipulated everything that happened right from the beginning.


So, assuming this is true, what's the point of putting the two ladies through the rigors, then? If Alessa knows their motives and identifies them as allies, then everything between Rose's awakening behind the wheel of her vehicle and Pyramid Head's thwarted attack is basically just scenery porn and shout-outs to the fans.

Quote:
If she did that, then the cultists would just huddle in the church and eventually die of starvation. What's starvation to being able to watch them be disemboweled/eaten/have their skin ripped off/etc., especially when what they did to her was so painful. She seems to use the fog world as a lure to draw out cultists, then she drops the Otherworld before all of them can get back to the church.


I've always viewed Alessa's revenge as her taking advantage of a favorable situation when it presented itself. If it really was some Xanatos Gambit, it's a pretty ridiculous one, and not very clever at all.

_________________
Image


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
So, assuming this is true, what's the point of putting the two ladies through the rigors, then? If Alessa knows their motives and identifies them as allies, then everything between Rose's awakening behind the wheel of her vehicle and Pyramid Head's thwarted attack is basically just scenery porn and shout-outs to the fans.


Because she wants to have a moral victory as well as a physical one. She wants Rose, a perfectly good person, to destroy the self-righteousness of the cult and disillusion them, so that they are truly hopeless and in utter despair in the face of death, instead of "lol were goin 2 hevins nao"

Quote:
I've always viewed Alessa's revenge as her taking advantage of a favorable situation when it presented itself. If it really was some Xanatos Gambit, it's a pretty ridiculous one, and not very clever at all.


The plan is very simple

1) Send out perfect child as b8.
2) Lure in perfect mom candidate + bodyguard-chan.
3) Show former that her daughter is in DANGUR GURL and that the cult is a bunch of assholes.
4) Reveal the truth of everything to her, and make her a Trojan Horse.
5) Disillusion cult by egging Christabella into killing an innocent; prove God's not on their side by having Rose keep living.
6) ???
7) Profit.

Quote:
The only thing I could find is that the clocks in both the fog world and the Otherworld are frozen at the same time, suggesting Alessa created both realms at the same time. It also tells us it was 3:46 am when her soul split.


That's pretty kickass. Though I don't think the fog world and the Otherworld are two different planes in the movie.

_________________
BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


Top
   
 

Subway Guard
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 12 May 2008
Notes left: 1684
Last seen at: Houston, Tx.
Quote:
So, assuming this is true, what's the point of putting the two ladies through the rigors, then? If Alessa knows their motives and identifies them as allies, then everything between Rose's awakening behind the wheel of her vehicle and Pyramid Head's thwarted attack is basically just scenery porn and shout-outs to the fans.

Knowing Rose is a good mother who loves her child =/= knowing Rose will have the strength to stand up to the cult. Alessa didn't know how far Rose would go to help her, but she never thought of Rose as an enemy, nor did she ever use her monsters to try to kill her.

Quote:
That's pretty kickass. Though I don't think the fog world and the Otherworld are two different planes in the movie.

I do believe they're two dimensions because of the way the hospital is split into fog and darkness at the same time, but you're probably right.
And thanks for the kickass comment :D


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
The hospital being split doesn't really mean anything. The hospital's basement is always Dark, no matter what. However, Alessa reshapes the outside world however appropriate.

That, and none of the characters are ever divided along three dimensions at any one time, so Occam's Razor, I guess.

_________________
BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


Top
   
 

Subway Guard
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 12 May 2008
Notes left: 1684
Last seen at: Houston, Tx.
Yeah, I see what you mean. In that case, Alessa keeps the hospital dark all the time because that's the center of her rage, and then expands it outward to shift the rest of the world whenever she senses a hapless cultist too far from the church. That would actually be supported by Gans noting that the farther you get from Alessa, the less bloody the walls and floors get.


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 01 Jun 2009
Notes left: 2868
One thing I still don't understand is why Alessa would put a warning system in place. That siren is a massive red flag to those out scavenging in the town that the bad stuff is going to happen.

_________________
It's not that far.

Screenplay Archaeology Podcast - FRIDAY THE 13TH EPISODE IS UP!


Top
   
 

Gravedigger
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 30 Sep 2009
Notes left: 563
Last seen at: Centennial Building
^i don't think the Fog World is in total control of Alessa, the cultists obviously placed and use it themselves

_________________
"Grown-ups tell kids there's no such thing as monsters, that the Bogeyman is just make-believe, and there's nothing hiding under their beds, but that's a lie. Because I've seen 'em." - Murphy Pendleton


Top
   
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 38 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: