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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: MOVIE ENDING THEORIES!

Missing since: 20 Aug 2009
Notes left: 29
The reason why Rose was trapped at the end is because she made a deal with the devil. In the scene where she meets Dark Alessa ("i have many names") she lets the darkness possess her in order to save Sharon. That is why she wasnt hurt by christabella stabbing her; shes empowered by the darkness.
And at the end of the movie, she can't leave anymore because she is now tainted because she used "evil's" help to save sharon. So she is doomed to spend eternity in limbo, just like the asshole cultists were stuck in limbo (until they were sent to hell).

However its not a totally bad ending because at least rose & sharon are now together & have eachother. and presumably alessas nightmare is over now. she got her revenge against the cultists and left her mother dahlia to wander forever & think about what a bitch she was.

Other thoughts:

The question of whether Rose & Cybil had died in the car crash is intentionally ambiguous & moot. If Rose died in the crash, then at the end of the movie she would have been stuck in limbo for making a deal with the devil, instead of ascending to heaven/passing on to the other side/whatever. If Rose did NOT die in the crash, at the end of the movie she would have been stuck in limbo for the deal with the devil, instead of going back to the real world.
Ultimately it makes no difference to the story. She sacrificed herself for sharon, she had to. Otherwise she wouldve been jumped by the cult & sharon wouldve been roasted.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: MOVIE ENDING THEORIES!
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Dark Alessa isn't the devil.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: MOVIE ENDING THEORIES!

Missing since: 20 Aug 2009
Notes left: 29
AuraTwilight wrote:
Dark Alessa isn't the devil.


i know shes not the actual devil; its just a figure of speech.


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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: MOVIE ENDING THEORIES!
     
         
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Missing since: 15 Oct 2011
Notes left: 524
Last seen at: Phoenix
Born2spill, your's is basically my interpretation as well. By any chance did you see the movie without having played any of the games? I thought that your reading is what a virgin viewer would believe :oops:

Notes.

Quote:
And at the end of the movie, she can't leave anymore because she is now tainted because she used "evil's" help to save sharon.


Exactly, the result of dealing with the devil.

Quote:
However its not a totally bad ending
It's bad for sequel potential though.

Quote:
The question of whether Rose & Cybil had died in the car crash is intentionally ambiguous & moot.


We have to throw some modifiers concerning the creators "intentions" as the SH regulars have found numerous quotes that suggest the director intended something other than what appeared in the final cut of the film. They thought the many hints that the main characters are already dead referred to them being damned, effectively dead because they are never getting out of Silent Hill. My answer is that we need to account for the bodies that; of the cultists, Rose, and Cybil that were never found. (The cultists can be explaind by the fire but Rose's corpse would still be in her suv). We'd have to say that the fog world limbo sucks in both the body and the soul, which is somewhat unprecedented.

Quote:
If Rose died in the crash, then at the end of the movie she would have been stuck in limbo for making a deal with the devil, instead of ascending to heaven/passing on to the other side/whatever. If Rose did NOT die in the crash, at the end of the movie she would have been stuck in limbo for the deal with the devil, instead of going back to the real world.


Not sure I follow you here. Anyway, half of the fun of Silent Hill is debating the uncertainties.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: MOVIE ENDING THEORIES!
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
born2kill wrote:
AuraTwilight wrote:
Dark Alessa isn't the devil.


i know shes not the actual devil; its just a figure of speech.


But if there's no literal Devil figure, why is Rose being morally damned? The more likely reason she's stuck in the Otherworld is that Alessa wants to stay there with her new awesome mom who's way better than Dahlia.

And why go to the real world, where people hurt you, when you can stay in the world where you're basically God?

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: MOVIE ENDING THEORIES!

Missing since: 20 Aug 2009
Notes left: 29
@Aura

Rose conspires with a sadistic, malevolent entity, who enjoys barbwire raping & dancing in blood showers. Its not the actual devil. But its a cruel, horrible force in its own right. Thats why Rose is damned.

In the church massacre scene, the audience is suppose to feel "yes, justice is served!...(violence continues)..okay thats enough, youve made your point....okay thats a little much...oh fuck what have you done Rose!! the horror youve unleashed! Youre no better than they are".
By the end of the church scene you are not suppose to feel satisfaction, youre suppose to feel guilty.

There are moral underpinnings in silent hill, beyond what Alessa wants. Maybe its the universe or God judging. Or maybe its just Alessa's conscience running in the background of her nightmare. But its clear to me that Rose is tainted after the church scene.

You could be right that Alessa wants to keep her mom in silent hill with her. However the way the film is presented, 1) Alessa isnt driven by obsessive mommy issues. None of the Alesssa are (dark, light; old, young, extra crispy, medium rare...which ever version) Shes driven by pain & revenge. So I dont get that reading out of the movie.
and 2) Rose loves Alessa more than anyone. So there wouldnt be a need to trap her. Totally unnecessary.
If it were a boy she liked & she was a crazy in love & trapped him in the town at the end, that'd make sense for a dark ending. But its not. Its her mom who stabs people in the face for her.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: MOVIE ENDING THEORIES!

Missing since: 20 Aug 2009
Notes left: 29
tbonesays wrote:
Born2spill, your's is basically my interpretation as well. By any chance did you see the movie without having played any of the games? I thought that your reading is what a virgin viewer would believe :oops:


glad we agree on this. Thumbs up.

No i played the games way before the film, back in the 90s

tbonesays wrote:
it's bad for sequel potential though.


It depends how faithful you want the sequels to be to the previous movies. Personally i dont care about continuity with previous movies. I view each movie as its own self contained story. If Silent Hill Revelation began with Rose & Sharon in the real world, & no explanation was ever given, I would not care at all.

tbonesays wrote:
We have to throw some modifiers concerning the creators "intentions" as the SH regulars have found numerous quotes that suggest the director intended something other than what appeared in the final cut of the film. They thought the many hints that the main characters are already dead referred to them being damned, effectively dead because they are never getting out of Silent Hill. My answer is that we need to account for the bodies that; of the cultists, Rose, and Cybil that were never found. (The cultists can be explaind by the fire but Rose's corpse would still be in her suv). We'd have to say that the fog world limbo sucks in both the body and the soul, which is somewhat unprecedented.


Theres a simple explanation to that:

In the game, theres one ending where the characters were dead all along.
In an alternate ending, the characters leave the town & were not dead.

The writers put hints of both versions in because theyre both interesting. And didnt fully resolve which version was right, for whatever reason (purposefully or studio editing).
Ultimately it reads as ambiguous & is much better for not having a definitive answer. If we knew exactly how silent hill worked, it wouldnt be scary.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: MOVIE ENDING THEORIES!
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
Rose conspires with a sadistic, malevolent entity, who enjoys barbwire raping & dancing in blood showers. Its not the actual devil. But its a cruel, horrible force in its own right. Thats why Rose is damned.


You're missing the point; Alessa created this world; she's the higher power here who's controlling people's fates according to HER vision of 'justice' and 'right and wrong'. From Alessa's perspective, Rose is a good guy. So who is damning her?

Quote:
In the church massacre scene, the audience is suppose to feel "yes, justice is served!...(violence continues)..okay thats enough, youve made your point....okay thats a little much...oh fuck what have you done Rose!! the horror youve unleashed! Youre no better than they are".
By the end of the church scene you are not suppose to feel satisfaction, youre suppose to feel guilty.


Not according to the guy who made the movie; that scene is supposed to represent that Alessa is a monster; "Alessa...what have you become?" Rose is considered an innocent who did the right thing by Gans, because if she didn't do EXACTLY that, Sharon would be dead. It's not her fault that Alessa went overboard.

Quote:
There are moral underpinnings in silent hill, beyond what Alessa wants. Maybe its the universe or God judging. Or maybe its just Alessa's conscience running in the background of her nightmare. But its clear to me that Rose is tainted after the church scene.


Sharon IS Alessa's conscience, though, and again, she's not going to damn Rose at all.

You're putting blame on Rose for what other characters did. That's not right or just at all. That's like blaming someone for killing a serial killer in self-defense.

Quote:
You could be right that Alessa wants to keep her mom in silent hill with her. However the way the film is presented, 1) Alessa isnt driven by obsessive mommy issues. None of the Alesssa are (dark, light; old, young, extra crispy, medium rare...which ever version) Shes driven by pain & revenge. So I dont get that reading out of the movie.


Er...it's BOTH. The whole reason Rose is there is because Alessa wants to test her and use her, that's the entire point of her adventure. With Alessa's pain and revenge totally satisfied, she has nothing else to motivate her except a desire for happiness and motherhood "Mother is God in the eyes of a child." Rose did what Dahlia couldn't, so when Alessa combined back together in Sharon's body, she decided she was going to enjoy life with her.

There's nothing creepy or obsessive about wanting a mommy who doesn't give you up to a murderous cult; Alessa is still mentally a child and a third of her is still literally so.

Quote:
and 2) Rose loves Alessa more than anyone. So there wouldnt be a need to trap her. Totally unnecessary.


It's not that she's trapping her, from Alessa's perspective. The point is that the real world is fucking terrible from her life experiences. Which would be the bigger trap, from Alessa's perspective? The world that ostracized her, raped her, persecuted her, and put her in a burned coma for 30 years, or a world where all her dreams can come true and she can do absolutely anything she wants without restraint?

And you forget that even if Alessa loves Rose, Alessa is still selfish. She still USED Rose, and she effectively killed Sharon as Rose knows her by absorbing her into herself.

Quote:
If it were a boy she liked & she was a crazy in love & trapped him in the town at the end, that'd make sense for a dark ending. But its not. Its her mom who stabs people in the face for her.


Uhhh...Rose never stabs anyone. Did you even watch the movie? Rose never hurts anyone in any way except in self defense, and even then she never draws blood. The worst she does is push down a ladder a dude's climbing up because he's trying to kill her and her daughter.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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My Bestsellers Clerk
 Post subject: Re: MOVIE ENDING THEORIES!
     
         
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Missing since: 06 Nov 2011
Notes left: 401
Uh...watch the climax again. Rose clearly stabs a cultist after Alessa rises from the ground.


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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: MOVIE ENDING THEORIES!
     
         
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Missing since: 12 May 2008
Notes left: 1684
Last seen at: Houston, Tx.
Alessa absolutely wants Rose to be her new mommy, that's why she smiles happily as Rose runs her fingers through her hair.

Rose is not literally damned, as there is no external entity involved. Symbolically, yes, she's damned, but that's not what's actually going on.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: MOVIE ENDING THEORIES!
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
Uh...watch the climax again. Rose clearly stabs a cultist after Alessa rises from the ground.


Fair enough, it's been the better part of a year. Still, however, self-defense excuses a lot. She doesn't draw blood for self-satisfaction or anything, she does it to protect herself and her child.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: MOVIE ENDING THEORIES!
     
         
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Missing since: 22 Jun 2006
Notes left: 1924
Last seen at: Katz Street
That and she was surprised she even stabbed that cultist. She froze and had an obvious look of shock on her face. She didn't have time to think about it and reacted before realizing what she had done, so it was clearly out of self-defense.

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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: MOVIE ENDING THEORIES!
     
         
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Missing since: 15 Oct 2011
Notes left: 524
Last seen at: Phoenix
AuraTwilight wrote:
Quote:
Rose conspires with a sadistic, malevolent entity, who enjoys barbwire raping & dancing in blood showers. Its not the actual devil. But its a cruel, horrible force in its own right. Thats why Rose is damned.


You're missing the point; Alessa created this world; she's the higher power here who's controlling people's fates according to HER vision of 'justice' and 'right and wrong'. From Alessa's perspective, Rose is a good guy. So who is damning her?


She damned herself when she let Dark Alessa inside of her.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: MOVIE ENDING THEORIES!
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Oct 2009
Notes left: 2523
tbonesays wrote:
AuraTwilight wrote:
Quote:
Rose conspires with a sadistic, malevolent entity, who enjoys barbwire raping & dancing in blood showers. Its not the actual devil. But its a cruel, horrible force in its own right. Thats why Rose is damned.


You're missing the point; Alessa created this world; she's the higher power here who's controlling people's fates according to HER vision of 'justice' and 'right and wrong'. From Alessa's perspective, Rose is a good guy. So who is damning her?


She damned herself when she let Dark Alessa inside of her.


Dark Alessa is still Alessa, who controls the world around her. Letting DA into her makes Rose, in Alessa's eyes, good.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: MOVIE ENDING THEORIES!
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
tbonesays wrote:
AuraTwilight wrote:
Quote:
Rose conspires with a sadistic, malevolent entity, who enjoys barbwire raping & dancing in blood showers. Its not the actual devil. But its a cruel, horrible force in its own right. Thats why Rose is damned.


You're missing the point; Alessa created this world; she's the higher power here who's controlling people's fates according to HER vision of 'justice' and 'right and wrong'. From Alessa's perspective, Rose is a good guy. So who is damning her?


She damned herself when she let Dark Alessa inside of her.


What Yuki said; how is that event even evil, anyway? It's not like Rose knew what was going on. She was giving a nine year old a hug then BAM, Rose is pseudo-pregnant with an Alessa.

Not that it seems to effect her in any meaningful way; the whole thing was just symbolic for Rose being Alessa's herald; her message-bearer. And if you're going to tell me that Rose is damned because she told the cultists that they were monsters, then...well, your sense of moral responsibility is weird.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: MOVIE ENDING THEORIES!
     
         
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Missing since: 15 Oct 2011
Notes left: 524
Last seen at: Phoenix
Quote:
Quote:

She damned herself when she let Dark Alessa inside of her.


Dark Alessa is still Alessa, who controls the world around her. Letting DA into her makes Rose, in Alessa's eyes, good.


And Rose gets her reward from Dark Alessa; trapped in the Fog world forever, alone with the monster at her side.

Quote:
What Yuki said; how is that event even evil, anyway? It's not like Rose knew what was going on. She was giving a nine year old a hug then BAM, Rose is pseudo-pregnant with an Alessa.

Not that it seems to effect her in any meaningful way; the whole thing was just symbolic for Rose being Alessa's herald; her message-bearer. And if you're going to tell me that Rose is damned because she told the cultists that they were monsters, then...well, your sense of moral responsibility is weird.


Moral opinions are always welcome.

Here Rose can't claim that she was a pawn or even a dupe. Dark Alessa told her that she wanted "Revenge." And while DA motivated Rose with fear for Sharon, Rose still willingly accepted the offer.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: MOVIE ENDING THEORIES!
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Oct 2009
Notes left: 2523
tbonesays wrote:
Quote:
Quote:

She damned herself when she let Dark Alessa inside of her.


Dark Alessa is still Alessa, who controls the world around her. Letting DA into her makes Rose, in Alessa's eyes, good.


And Rose gets her reward from Dark Alessa; trapped in the Fog world forever, alone with the monster at her side.


Except again, it's not a punishment from Alessa. You might be putting your own moral judgement on the film, but within the canon and by the movie's morality itself, Rose didn't do anything wrong. She righted the evils of a cult done against an innocent little girl, and as a result said girl clung onto the only person she's known to truly love her.

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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: MOVIE ENDING THEORIES!
     
         
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Missing since: 15 Oct 2011
Notes left: 524
Last seen at: Phoenix
Yuki wrote:
tbonesays wrote:

She damned herself when she let Dark Alessa inside of her.




Except again, it's not a punishment from Alessa. You might be putting your own moral judgement on the film, but within the canon and by the movie's morality itself, Rose didn't do anything wrong. She righted the evils of a cult done against an innocent little girl, and as a result said girl clung onto the only person she's known to truly love her.


But it is a 'punishment' by Alessa. DA tells Rose "your reward is the truth." DA decides who gets in and who does not get out of Fog world.

You seem to be looking at whether or not Alessa is morally condemning Rose for helping Alessa. Of course that's not DA's intention. It's the movie's itself, the world of the film does it to Rose. She's trapped because she made the deal with the devil.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: MOVIE ENDING THEORIES!
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
But no, she's NOT. She's trapped because she loved Sharon.

That's the reason the deal was even OFFERED, and the reason she accepted it. Rose's only fault, the motivation between her entire agency, is "I must protect Sharon", and Alessa is the one who orchestrated that. If Rose is damned, it's because she put Sharon's safety beyond her own.

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I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: MOVIE ENDING THEORIES!
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Oct 2009
Notes left: 2523
tbonesays wrote:
Yuki wrote:
tbonesays wrote:

She damned herself when she let Dark Alessa inside of her.




Except again, it's not a punishment from Alessa. You might be putting your own moral judgement on the film, but within the canon and by the movie's morality itself, Rose didn't do anything wrong. She righted the evils of a cult done against an innocent little girl, and as a result said girl clung onto the only person she's known to truly love her.


But it is a 'punishment' by Alessa. DA tells Rose "your reward is the truth." DA decides who gets in and who does not get out of Fog world.

You seem to be looking at whether or not Alessa is morally condemning Rose for helping Alessa. Of course that's not DA's intention. It's the movie's itself, the world of the film does it to Rose. She's trapped because she made the deal with the devil.


It doesn't matter, though, if she's in or out of the Fog World. That's not the question. It is not a punishment: Rose is safe. The movie isn't passing any moral judgement on Rose, because Alessa has decided she wants to stay with Rose; it's not saying "Rose is bad because she sided with Alessa and thus she's trapped in the fog world," it's saying "Alessa loves Rose because Mother is God in the eyes of a child, and thus she's causing them to remain in the fog world."

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