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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2003
Notes left: 12943
Last seen at: The Wand'ring Wood
Small correction: [spoiler]Alessa's power were never evil. Merely being manipulated.[/spoiler]

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 24 Apr 2006
Notes left: 28
Last seen at: Liverpool, England
I think you've got a pretty big problem of interpretation and personal belief here.

Like it's been said. Satan doesn't equal Lucifer. Mark 5:9 and 'legion'. There's nothing to suggest that any of the entities possessing the man in Mark are actually Satan himself. And there is a difference between a demon and a fallen angel.

That said, I really don’t think the people making the film thought about it with this much depth.

People hear the "I have many names" quote and naturally assume it's a nod to the fact that the creature is Satan. See, this is down to personal belief and interpretation. A huge majority of people think that way, the filmmakers know it, so they knew what message it would convey.

But even if you don't buy into that Hollywood treatment of Satan, you at least know about it. I can think of one film off the top of my head that's used almost exactly the same line The Devil’s Advocate. But I bet there's a hell of a lot more. :roll:

So the theology and mythology doesn't matter so much as what the filmmakers intended. And I'm guessing they intended to try and make things easier on the non-SH fan.

In the game, the evil or otherwise nature of the town and the people in it, is put across in a pretty complicated, layered, open ended sort of way. There are still plenty of things I’m not sure of, though I could make theories. The whole 'Satan' thing is pretty much a life belt, a familiar concept that the bewildered and confused can latch on to.

…

So. Abused little tortured soul wltm clichéd satanic entity for vengeance, blood sports, and maybe more. GSOH vital.

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In my opinion, it is a devil, in a game and in the movie. He just show in the way the people imagine him.

There's a VERY important quote in movie, which in fact, make that case more clearer, and I mean:

Demon wrote:
I have... many names.


Oh, come on, don't ring a bell? Anything?

What you think about that:

Holy Bible wrote:
27And when He stepped out on the land, there met Him a certain man from the city who had demons for a long time. And he wore no clothes, nor did he live in a house but in the tombs. 28When he saw Jesus, he cried out, fell down before Him, and with a loud voice said, "What have I to do with You, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg You, do not torment me!" 29For He had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For it had often seized him, and he was kept under guard, bound with chains and shackles; and he broke the bonds and was driven by the demon into the wilderness. 30Jesus asked him, saying, "What is your name?" And he said, "Legion," because many demons had entered him.


Sound very similar to me, don't you have the same feelings?


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Solid Snake wrote:
Holy Bible wrote:
And he said, "Legion," because many demons had entered him.


Sound very similar to me, don't you have the same feelings?


Well, L_Syllabub and others already mentioned the "legion" reference from Mark. The reason they called themselves "legion" is because many demons had entered him, not because it was Satan. The word "legion" was used here in reference to the military units that were used by the Roman empire, which typically consisted of 5000-6000 soldiers. The legion reference is not a reference to Satan, it is a reference to some of his demons.

However, the bible does use many different names for Satan, just as it also uses many different names for Jesus and God... Adversary, Serpent, Antichrist, Angel of light, Tempter, Dark one, Wicked one, etc. This also goes with the fact that he also appeared differently to many in the bible as well. As the great tempter, he didn't appear as a red devil with horns and a tail. He appeared as angelic and beautiful.

Anyway, I think it could just as easily be some other demonic force. According to some of these beliefs, I don't think demons are ever "born" or created. I think they all existed in the heavenly realms but were cast out of heaven during a great fallout between God and Satan. Thats what I would think anyway.

So, it could be some other demon that has been around since the dawn of creation, and has appeared to man throught history. I think someone mentioned it earlier, but the "many names" could just be a reference to how long he has been around. I would think that Satan has more to do than play around with a little girl's emotions and rage. He has bigger fish to fry than the hillbilly town of Silent Hill.

Rather, I think it's just some lesser demon's proverbial wet dream.


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ivs wrote:
I think the only Satan was Christabella, she was there to be punished, as well as the rest of the people, only Alessa could not do so because they did not believe they did anything wrong, as Dahlia said "blind faith keeps them safe." Just like in SH2, James thinks he is innocent until the end when he realizes his actions, only then does he have to actually fight the 2 PHs to end it all. Up until then, he is faced with the darkness, and stalked by PH, just like in the SH movie, yet only until Rose came in and told the people the truth and Christabella, was the darkness able to enter the church to enact revenge!


So when the people get the epiphany of "Oh my god, I did do something wrong!" Is it their fault that they chose to believe Christabella?

The people represent the mindless sheep controlled by Christabella. Christabella manipulates the people by making them feel comfortable in an environment that isn't. So since they cannot think for themselves, is it their fault because they couldn't control it? I don't understand why the other people die when Christabella is the true evil.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2003
Notes left: 12943
Last seen at: The Wand'ring Wood
They're the cult members who stood idly by as she, Christabella, burned Alessa. They're being punished for their blind sycophancy.

_________________
I'm not dead yet, dammit.


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Quote:
There was no hint in the movie that she had any powers or evil intentions before the burning incident. Some people point to the alter fire tipping over during the incident as Alessa imposing her powers, but i dont buy that at all.


If it were the only indication that Alessa had powers, I could buy that it was an accident. Here are some other clues:

Alessa was called a witch by her classmates. If they were picking on her because she had no known father, they would call her a bastard, not a witch.
If Alessa was burned because she was considered a bastard, the whole town would go up in flames! Having kids out of wedlock isn't exactly rare, even in the 70's.
If Alessa was concieved without a father at all.....well, you fill in the rest. :)
Alessa survived the impossible. No normal human could survive being burned like my grandmother's overcooked steak.
If it's a demon, why couldn't it do this on it's own? It clearly needed Alessa's powers.
If it's just a manifestation of Alessa's subconsciense, it would seem that there is something supernatural about her.

Whether it's a demon or not, it seems dependent on Alessa. I believe that it's a manifestation of Alessa's subconscionse, but it doesn't know that. It's possible that Gans drew inspiration from SH2 to create Dark Alessa:

[spoiler]
Maria was a manifestation of James' subconsciense, but she thought she was a normal person.
[/spoiler]

I believe that Gans used the "Many Names" line for people that wouldn't know what a subconscience mind is. I think it was a reference to her being part of both Alessa and Sharon.


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 Post subject:

Hi there. This is my first post.

This subject is of a great importance to me so I thought I would mention something about it.

The whole thing is like a giant huge spoiler to those who haven't played the games. So spoiler tags for you!

[spoiler]

I didn't interpret Alessa's evil self as being the devil. Why? Because good and evil don't exist outside of human interpretation. In nature every day horrific awful things happen; mothers eath their children, parasitic beasts rip out the guts of other living things, it's a cumulative circle of terror and death. And that's without any interference by humans at all. Silent Hill was never evil and neither are any of the things that happen there. They're a natural occurance just like all the things we find 'horrible' in the natural world.

Well, how the hell does that work you might ask. Here's another real life example. There are places all over the world that seem to have 'strange powers'. Now the nature of these strange powers can be contested but even the most hardened cynics have reported feeling unusual in these 'sacred' or 'hellish' places. Strange areas that awful things have happened or spots in the Earth where unnatural phenomenon take place. Mary mentioned Silent Hill being a 'sacred place' and we see in Silent Hill 4 that there was a rock that was worshipped by the ancient people that inhabited the land. It's not improbable to imagine some vague deific entity to exist in this place to start with, perhaps even some kind of 'spirit' or 'demon' but I don't like to used the word demon. It conflicts with the next point.

Now, the human mind upon seeing a 'god' wouldn't know what the heck to make of it. And I think the simple explanation is that whatever we carry deep in our hearts is what this god becomes. It's also safe to say that most people harbour horrible tumultous emotions without ever dealing with them. (Like James, who's bottled emotions essentially cause him to murder his wife.) In essence, our modern lives have taken us away from nature, we don't see that violence everyday anymore. We've given ourselves a conscience and if this deity transcends all time and good and evil, it wouldn't make sense to a human being at all. Therefore, like a giant filter it would become whatever we needed it to become in order to fulfill our own secret wishes.

In the instance of Alessa and the 'Reaper' of the movie, if you were a small girl and all this pseudo Christian doctrin was shoved down your throat day in and day out, I think that you're 'dark self' would very much seem like a devil. The notion of sinning and sinners suddenly becomes paramount. Punishment and retribution were very important to this religion, therefore since Alessa is using this 'god' to reach her own ends it would become whatever it needed to be to serve this action. It appears as a temptation, a demon, something evil and twisted. And the town (in the movie) is the seat of it's manifestation and Alessa's revenge. Her pain and agony creates the destitution of the town and this 'demon' that voices her subconscious wish.

[/spoiler]

But that's just what I think and the whole ordeal is very much up for interpretation. That's what makes it so fun.


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 Post subject:

I agree, AW. When I saw the movie, I found it interesting that the puritans passed judgement on Alessa, only to later be judged by her. Is Dark Alessa good or evil? I guess it depends on your point of view.


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 Post subject:

I think you can go even farther with the puritans to say that 'God' definately has no sides. Were they protected by their faith? Maybe. The motive and purpose would be inscrutable, since a god wouldn't work on the same levels. However, I think Alessa had a stronger type of faith born from a stronger kind of emotion. Remember, she's been tortured and picked on for years, this wasn't something that happened overnight. The cruelty she experienced at the moment of her burning was intense enough to grant her a direct contact with this entity. Therefore though they were protected via their puny form of faith for a while, there was a way for her to enter their sanctum. It reminds me of the scene in the Aenid when Aeneus sees his Gods tearing up Troy. That same destruction of sanctuary to further the unintelligable (to the characters) cause.

It's also pretty well known that a lot of faiths used various forms of torture/starvation/exhaustion to bring them closer to their gods. Maybe she was simply closer to this god because she suffered more in its name. The same with all the Silent Hill characters. They became closer to the source of their souls through their abject suffering.

So back to the source topic...I don't think it was good or evil or anything. It was an abstract 'god' invoking an already present subconscious notion.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 03 May 2006
Notes left: 22
I see the Reaper of Silent Hill being one of the gods of Silent Hill. There may be more than three, rather than just Valtiel, Samael and God.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2003
Notes left: 12943
Last seen at: The Wand'ring Wood
There is no Samael at all in Silent Hill.

SH3 comes out and says Samael doesn't exist, and SH1 pretty much spells it out, too. SH3 only makes it more plain. Also in SH3 is the revelation that God, The Order's God, had many gods and angels who "would lead people in obediance to Her." So, yeah. More than three gods are possible. What isn't possible is that one of them is Samael.

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I'm not dead yet, dammit.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 03 May 2006
Notes left: 22
Not necessarily. Samael might not be a "Demon" or a "god". Samael may very well be just a figment of someone's imagination, like the monsters are.

Even if that is true, I don't know who Samael is, so I just mean one of the three gods.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2003
Notes left: 12943
Last seen at: The Wand'ring Wood
Regardless, using the name Samael isn't totally advised considering it doesn't exist in the Silent Hill mythos. Dahlia only used it to trick Harry and the players, and using the name only gives that ruse credit.

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I'm not dead yet, dammit.


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 Post subject:

hmm...Well...When I started playing the games (The first one I played was Silent Hill 3.)
It seemed pretty clear to me that the Cult was worshipping Satan as God, liek they got them mixed up or something.

As I started playing the others, I wasnt sure about whether or not their female God was Satan.

And now I'm so not sure that I just dont even think about it really. o-o

-Has decided-
+God in Silent Hill is a pretty lady in red, and like...makes a bunch of people have her babies.
+She has minions, monsters, and cultists to do her bidding.
+Likes the color of rust and blood


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Could it be.... SATAN???

Missing since: 03 Nov 2006
Notes left: 19
LinzerDinzer wrote:
I really feel that Gans tried to simplify this story for the screen by bringing in some obviously Satanic elements. In the film rendition, Alessa clearly calls upon the power of Satan to bring revenge to the cultists her burned her alive for no good reason. Clean and simple.

SH1 possible spoiler...
[spoiler]However, in comparison the games... this was not so clear. Alessa seemed like a deity in her own right, calling upon no other evil but her own power... at least that's how it seemed to me.. correct me if you feel that I am wrong. Many fans say that Samael is not real at all... and I'm too confused about that to make a claim myself. (SOMEONE EXPLAIN THAT TO ME!!) My point is... the true power that Alessa weilds (sp) that creates the horrible hells of Silent Hill is, well, hard to explain. [/spoiler]

That being said... the movie, though pretty clear, is not SPECIFIC that the image of Alessa that has 'many names' is in fact the devil incarnate... so do you think, as I do, that newcomers to the world of silent hill are to think that the devil is directly involved? -- though we, the old skool fans, can read in what we learned from playing the game? Since the specifics of the movie can go either way, can the people watching come to either conclusion and still be "correct?"

Phew... what a mind f**k... I hope I articulated this well...


Maybe she has more in common with a wraith perhaps?

An entity seeking just revenge on those who have wronged her in a previous life. It is reasonable to assume there is some dark power powering Alessa's revenge.


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