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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: STOP MAKING UP SHIT AS YOU GO ALONG. HERE'S THE FACTS:
     
         
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2003
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My recent trips through here have lead me to write up this explanation based on what I've been reading and seeing passed around in threads. Mostly it's to help me make sense of the film and its plot, and hopefully it can assist someone else.

Movie timeline and other distinctions: Sharon’s birth, the creation of Alessa’s nightmare world, the cult members' alleged Apocalypse, and so forth.


Thirty years ago: [2006 - 30 = 1976] the cult members of Silent Hill under the charge of Christabella immolates Alessa Gillespie in a ritual to “cleanse” their town of sin. An accident occurs and a fire breaks out in their auditorium. Police officer Thomas Gucci carries a severely burned Alessa from the ruins, and she is then taken to Brookhaven Hospital for treatment. Gucci was told she did not survive through the night.

--When the Dark One promises to extract revenge on those who have hurt Alessa the burned hand that reaches up to press against the side of the sterile container is small, a child’s sized hand. Alessa also seems to be in the same state as she was when she had been retrieved from the auditorium, no considerable physical changes – healing or anything of the sort – have happened to her. Here’s where things get a bit confusing for some people. Because Alessa’s hand is small and because she doesn’t look the least bit healed, the logical explanation is that the Dark One makes Its promise to her some time shortly after the botched ritual. This, however, is NOT when Sharon is born.

Sharon could not have been born immediately after the pact between Alessa and the Dark One. She is nine-years-old, or thereabouts, at the time of the film. Alessa’s immolation happened 30 years ago. A nine-year-old can’t wait at an orphanage for 30 years and not age accordingly. There’s no logic in that. Therefore, nine years before the film – twenty-one years after The Order burned Alessa – Sharon, Alessa’s goodness, is created, and given to Toluca County Orphanage.

These twenty-one years did not idle on by: The cult members were pulled into Alessa’s nightmare and some of the townspeople were transfigured into monsters (confirmed by Gans, who’s said that the monsters were all people at one point in time). Within this time Alessa’s nightmare has time to flourish and grow – as does Alessa herself. The Alessa in room B151 and in the finale in the church is much different than the child we first saw in the hospital. It’s a grown woman, taller, with breasts and with skin as healed as best as it’ll ever hope to get.

The cult members believe The Apocalypse happened, thus explaining their separation from the real world and being trapped in a fluctuating nightmare. This we learn to be false. The world did not end, rather their actions and sycophancy lead to their imprisonment in the nightmare. Throughout the years they learn that as long as they are inside the church no harm can come to them – thus the belief that their faith “keeps the darkness at bay,” and why the siren is installed on the roof of the church. They’ve also learned to detect the falling darkness by paying attention to the birds. This is not something that would come to them instantly, rather, by having to spend a good amount of time observing and adapting to the nightmare.

Furthermore The cult members and Dahlia have clearly aged over the years. Dahlia’s hair is longer and gray, her nails untrimmed and her face lined. The cult members seem gaunt and haggard, covered in ash and shabby clothing. There is only one seemingly young person among them – Anna, whom we can assume was just a small child at the time of Alessa's immolation and was pulled into the nightmare with her family. Everyone else seems middle aged, at best.

The belief that The cult members are dead and trapped in limbo is puzzling, since nowhere is it said that The cult members die. Rose and Cybil say that they're in Hell, but there is also a figurative connotation behind these words – they’re the ones who are responsible for being stuck in the nightmare. They’ve damned themselves with what they’ve done in the past, and, trapped in Alessa’s nightmare, they’re merely waiting for their punishment. The Dark One admits to being incapable of touching them – “their blind faith repels me” – or doing harm unto them while they’re inside the church, which is why It must merge with Rose in order to get passed the church’s threshold. This "truth" that Rose has to share with The Order is what they’ve done to Alessa, that they’re nothing more than blind sheep to Christabella’s whims, and that the Apocalypse they believe occurred never happened. “I come from a world outside this place. A world full of life.” Rose was asked to “reveal the truth” to The Order but, really, would the truth make the Dark One any more capable of killing them? Not likely, no. In fact since none of The Order are convinced by her words I’d say it was just a ruse in order to get what the Dark One really wanted. All It needed was to get inside of the church – and It did, once Christabella stabbed Rose. In summation: the Dark One used Rose to infiltrate the church and exact Alessa's revenge.

Also: If they were already dead, why would Alessa kill them again? That just seems silly to me – Alessa kept them alive, tormented and trapped them in a world at her mercy until she could kill them by her own hand.



Oh. The subject line is a joke, by the way.

*Updated for clarity.

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Last edited by Mis Krist. on 03 Aug 2006, edited 2 times in total.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 15 Jan 2005
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Wow,I am impressed.That is very indepth and definatly needed.
Thank you for laying it out so well.

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 Post subject:

she doesn't intend to just kill them, but to torture their souls. Hence, Hell.
Also, that's a pretty good detail of it, I hadn't the muscle to write it all down, but I agree with your points.
Except, at the time of which Alessa was tortured, Christabella must have been fairly old herself. For her to be the same thirty years later... it's kind of remarkable. I guess she's had excursions to the outside world herself just to get some lotions and etc.. why would she come back? for the power of course, she is the medium inwhich the people in town recieve their god.

And their god protects them.

Politics, Religion, and Power.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2003
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Last seen at: The Wand'ring Wood
Christabella didn't seem too old in the flashback - I'd say early thirties, at most? Maybe I'm not seeing what others did when they argue that Christabella still looks young - the woman seemed old to me, or at least aged; Sometimes people just age well, inexplicably. :P

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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 06 May 2005
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I have to agree on Krist.


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thanks you cleared up alot :D


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 Post subject:

Good post. I have a couple of thoughts.

Krist. wrote:
The Order believes The Apocalypse happened, thus explaining their separation from the real world and being trapped in a fluctuating nightmare. This we learn to be false. The world did not end, rather their actions and sycophancy lead to their imprisonment in the nightmare.


Of course they believed they had survived the apocalypse. They woke up one morning to see ash forever raining from the sky, a number of their friends transformed into hideous creatures imprisoned in torment, and the world literally ended (as a “cliff” in the street) when they tried to leave the town. They met in the church, and must have believed that their faith had spared them from this Apocalypse (unlike the rest of the world, obviously suffering in hell). In knowing that they had been spared, this faith was (to them) confirmed.

That is what made the church holy… because they believed it to be. But, it was obviously a “blind” and false faith, as they hadn’t been spared because of their righteousness. On the contrary, they had in fact been chosen specifically for this judgment because of their sins. But, just because a believed “truth” is false, doesn’t make sincere faith in that truth any less powerful.

Krist. wrote:
Sharon could not have been born immediately after the pact. She is nine-years-old, or thereabouts, at the time of the film. Alessa’s immolation happened 30 years ago. A nine-year-old can’t wait at an orphanage for 30 years and not age accordingly. There’s no logic in that. Therefore, nine years before the film – twenty-one years after The Order burned Alessa – Sharon, Alessa’s goodness, is created, and given to Toluca County Orphanage.


Agreed. I believe Alessa had exacted her judgment on many of those that she trapped in her realm (janitor/classmates/nurses/etc.), but she was deadlocked in a struggle with the cultists because of their aforementioned faith in the church and the Order. Every once in a while, Alessa was able to catch a straggler as they gathered at the church when the sirens rang (such as Anna or the disemboweled cultist in the courtyard), but for the most part, they had all adapted to her world and had found a way to survive in it. Therefore she needed something or someone that could enter the church as a “Trojan horse,” and show the cultists the truth. Once they know the truth, their faith has no foundation. Once their faith has been broken, Alessa can judge them.

Cue Sharon. Alessa used the good, pure qualities that she had possessed to create a child, which was sent out into the world; all the while knowing that she would find a determined, worthy person that would appeal to the unsuspecting cultists. Alessa and Silent Hill continued to call to Sharon until it brought her, and her target Rose, to her for her original purpose.

The demon (or dark side of Alessa) did enter the church through Rose’s stab wound. But I think the only reason the darkness was able to enter is because Christabella’s followers questioned the truth. Ultimately, they saw that Christabella was emotionally shaken by what Rose had told them, and when she finally snapped and stabbed her in the chest, they knew something was wrong. I think Rose’s argument to the cultists, and their leader’s reaction to it, was enough to shake their faith in what the real truth was. This ultimately led to their demise.

Krist. wrote:
Also: If they were already dead, why would Alessa kill them again? That just seems silly to me – Alessa kept them alive, tormented and trapped them in a world at her mercy until she could exact her revenge.


I’m not touching this one. There are strong arguments and evidence for both, but no actual proof. I think this was completely intentional so the audience will continue to talk about what the hell really happened until the next movie comes out. I’ve seen every possible argument both ways on this forum and have decided to let Gans deal with it in the next movie before I decide either way. But whether they are dead or not doesn’t really have any impact on the main plot. They are trapped in Alessas world either way.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: STOP MAKING UP SHIT AS YOU GO ALONG. HERE'S THE FACTS:

Missing since: 24 Apr 2006
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Krist. wrote:
Also: If they were already dead, why would Alessa kill them again? That just seems silly to me – Alessa kept them alive, tormented and trapped them in a world at her mercy until she could exact her revenge.


Agreed. Also, when Rose and Cybil find Anna she tells them her mother needs food, she is collecting food. If they ere all dead, why do they need food? Just something that no one has mentioned.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 24 Apr 2006
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Mmmm FACTS. I would just like to say dear god thank you Krist.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: STOP MAKING UP SHIT AS YOU GO ALONG. HERE'S THE FACTS:
     
         
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Missing since: 20 Mar 2006
Notes left: 267
Last seen at: Brookhaven Hospital
archer_raido wrote:
Krist. wrote:
Also: If they were already dead, why would Alessa kill them again? That just seems silly to me – Alessa kept them alive, tormented and trapped them in a world at her mercy until she could exact her revenge.


Agreed. Also, when Rose and Cybil find Anna she tells them her mother needs food, she is collecting food. If they ere all dead, why do they need food? Just something that no one has mentioned.



if they dont know they are dead, they continue on about their lives as if they are still alive, needing food, etc.

that being said, Krist has evidence to back up her theories, and her facts are super dooper correct. I'm not about to rag on them. Cause they are correct.

but I'm still holding onto my death theory. Haha. but I acknowledge the correctness of your thoughts and contend mine could be as well. ^_^

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Brookhaven Receptionist
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I'd like to say that the movie just may have some unexplainable plotholes or errors.

If you look closely enough, in the flashback, you'll see that the burned Alessa has breasts from the first moment that you see them rolling her down a hallway in a hospital bed. A 9 year old girl with breasts?

And anyhow. Perhaps it was not only the cult's faith that protected them from alessa. Remember the "holy light" that shined into the room when they were saying their prayer? The symbol of the church is one that we have not seen before. The world of Silent Hill has many gods. Perhaps they were being protected by their faith in another god.

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 02 May 2006
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Seems that the getting them to see the truth wasn't to do with convincing them their faith was hallow, as much as showing them they wouldn't live, by enabling Alessias revenge. The whole speech looked like more of an effort to provoke them into attacking her, so the demon could taint the holy symbol and the athame. Not certain if Rose knew this, but her saying "for Sharon" leads me to think that maybe she did.

It's difficult to prove, seems a lot though like the demon was pulling the strings, and the cult was misguided, but actually trying to stop the "apocolypse" After all, Ghab was correct when she warned that Sharon would be the new vessel of the demon. They may have known a lot about it, just way out of touch and a bit burn happy.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 01 May 2006
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A nice summery of thoughts on incidents in the movie, and some exposition on some the 'murky' areas of the movies. A little clarity to unexplained parts. I only really question the cult members being previously dead.

I find it's not so much she was killing them again, but more so torturing their uh, "soulselves". Not unlike how one might experience eternal suffering in hell, if such a place existed.

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 03 May 2006
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Quote:
I find it's not so much she was killing them again, but more so torturing their uh, "soulselves". Not unlike how one might experience eternal suffering in hell, if such a place existed.


The Inferno by Dante. good read, gives some ideas for the torturing dead stuff


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The people in the town are not dead.

I don't see how anyone can call themselves a fan of Silent Hill and resort to that sort of Shyamalonian plot twist nonsense.

After four games, you guys are going to question that people can vanish into the foggy world and still be alive? We've seen it for about 7 years in Silent Hill storytelling. No one is dead until Alessa kills them.

THEY ARE TRAPPED WITHIN THE FOGGY WORLD BECAUSE THEY WERE PULLED INTO IT.

Gucci says when he got there, he found NO BODIES.

Dead people leave bodies behind. They were pulled into the fog world, body and soul together, just like they've always done in the Silent Hill stories.

One thing I'm not sure I agree with on Krist's theory relates to their aging. I don't believe the cursed members of the Order are aging. It felt more like they were just there, unaging, with no concept of time anymore. I believe Dahlia aged because she wasn't cursed, and technically wasn't meant to be there with them. I believe Dahlia could probably leave if she could let go of her personal guilt. Alessa had no judgement for her mother.


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SHH Cult Subscriber
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Missing since: 22 Apr 2006
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Wow, that's great stuff. That actually cleared up some things that hadn't quite clicked yet. Gideon, you also did a fantastic job of supplementing the theories.

On the dead/undead theory...
I think they were alive, just trapped in Alessa's world. She just toyed with them and tortured them with her own little version of Hell on earth. Evidence of this, to me, is Anna getting food, Anna being torn apart by PH, basically, their ability to die or be killed.

On a side note, I would have opted for a better title, Krist. :lol: :P

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Last edited by jthomp1286 on 04 May 2006, edited 1 time in total.

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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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GameMaster wrote:
The people in the town are not dead.

I don't see how anyone can call themselves a fan of Silent Hill and resort to that sort of Shyamalonian plot twist nonsense.

After four games, you guys are going to question that people can vanish into the foggy world and still be alive? We've seen it for about 7 years in Silent Hill storytelling. No one is dead until Alessa kills them.

THEY ARE TRAPPED WITHIN THE FOGGY WORLD BECAUSE THEY WERE PULLED INTO IT.

Gucci says when he got there, he found NO BODIES.

Dead people leave bodies behind. They were pulled into the fog world, body and soul together, just like they've always done in the Silent Hill stories.

One thing I'm not sure I agree with on Krist's theory relates to their aging. I don't believe the cursed members of the Order are aging. It felt more like they were just there, unaging, with no concept of time anymore. I believe Dahlia aged because she wasn't cursed, and technically wasn't meant to be there with them. I believe Dahlia could probably leave if she could let go of her personal guilt. Alessa had no judgement for her mother.



The movie is not the games. They could have changed things. So don't say that we can't be fans of silent hill and think they are dead.
the movie do not = games.

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 Post subject: Re: STOP MAKING UP SHIT AS YOU GO ALONG. HERE'S THE FACTS:

archer_raido wrote:
Krist. wrote:
Also: If they were already dead, why would Alessa kill them again? That just seems silly to me – Alessa kept them alive, tormented and trapped them in a world at her mercy until she could exact her revenge.


Agreed. Also, when Rose and Cybil find Anna she tells them her mother needs food, she is collecting food. If they ere all dead, why do they need food? Just something that no one has mentioned.


I happen to agree with Krist on the lame taste that the death angle would leave in the SH purist's mouth. I am leaning more towards the idea that this is an alternate reality, where the inhabitants are still very much alive. But, I can also easily see it from the other viewpoint as well…

There are common beliefs (see Dante’s Inferno reference above) that those in a Limbo or Purgatory are lost and do not realize they are dead. This idea suggests that their soul lingers in Purgatory, until they are ready to be judged, and pass on to Heaven or Hell. In this place, because of their ignorance, they continue to be driven by their inherent human interests, appetites, and compulsions. This could explain the Cultists’ need for food.

IF the fog Silent Hill was a personal Purgatory for Alessa, her act of “killing” the already dead cultists, could be viewed as judgment. But in her realm, instead of ascending to heaven, their souls are always condemned to Alessa’s hell. Instead of descending to Hell for the devil to deal with, they are eternally trapped in the dark version of Silent Hill, forever enslaved in an imprisonment of torture and torment, for Alessa to use as she wishes. That would suck.

Anyway, I am not saying that this is FACT, but I can definitely see the argument for it.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 24 Sep 2003
Notes left: 267
Finally someone who thinks like me!!!


THIS IS NOT A M NIGHT SHYAMALAN MOVIE!

I mean come on..


They're all deeeaaad...

First both rose and Sharon had they safety belt when they crashed ..

and while slamming your head against the wheel can knock you out the shock was probably not all that bad since the airbags did'nt deploy..

so no reason for dying there..

and if they were dead , there would be bodies..

and people aged ..

it's clear..

Christabella aged and it's obvious .. she's thiner and has a lot of wrinkles..

most of the people in the church look old ..

Dahlia looks old ..

Alessa looks older..

Gucci too.. tho' not enough..



So stop it with your "they're all dead" thing.. it's actually annoying..

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 Post subject: Re: STOP MAKING UP SHIT AS YOU GO ALONG. HERE'S THE FACTS:

gideon wrote:
There are common beliefs (see Dante’s Inferno reference above) that those in a Limbo or Purgatory are lost and do not realize they are dead. This idea suggests that their soul lingers in Purgatory, until they are ready to be judged, and pass on to Heaven or Hell. In this place, because of their ignorance, they continue to be driven by their inherent human interests, appetites, and compulsions. This could explain the Cultists’ need for food.


In addition to this, notice you never see Cybil or Rose seek out or request food or water from the cultists. That could have been because the time they spent there was relatively short, or it could have been because their goal in Silent Hill was to find Sharon. The cultists' goal was survival - that is why scavenging for food would be a priority.

If you want to debunk the "dead" theory, I think the missing bodies is the best argument.


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