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 Post subject: Dahlia = the true evil of the story!

It's not Alessa's fault that she is fatherless. It is Dahlia fault, because she gives birth to a fatherless child, making her the main evil. So why did "The Order" burn Alessa instead?


It should be Dahlia in that barbed wire bed ripping everyone apart!!!!


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Well they said they fight the sin not the sinner..and they considered Alessa the sin. And we really don't know how Alessa came to be. be spontanious or a fun night of partying. Hell she could have been raped for all we know..I doubt it but hey. The people of the cult were just burn happy.

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 Post subject:

I don't understand how Alessa is "the sin," she is just a result of the sin. Hmm, thanks made me think a little.


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 Post subject:

someone555 wrote:
I don't understand how Alessa is "the sin," she is just a result of the sin. Hmm, thanks made me think a little.


Yeah, that's why its called a "cult". They did stuff that defied logic and reasoning. Alessa was not "the sin", but the cult's Puritanesque values led them to believe that burning her was a way of cleansing Dhalia and the town. They were fanatics.


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 Post subject: Re: Dahlia = the true evil of the story!

someone555 wrote:
It's not Alessa's fault that she is fatherless. It is Dahlia fault, because she gives birth to a fatherless child, making her the main evil. So why did "The Order" burn Alessa instead?


It should be Dahlia in that barbed wire bed ripping everyone apart!!!!


The Order burned Alessa because they wish to "punish the sin, not the sinner" (it is obvious that either Dahlia had a one night stand and Alessa is the result or she had a Virginal Birth and the Order didn't believe her). The Order also believed Alessa to be a witch and that killing a witch would stop the end of the world (of course that didn't work out).

But to answer your other question, after the cultists are killed and Dahlia is left on the church steps she askes Rose why Alessa didn't kill her, Rose tells her that "To a girl, a Mother is God" and then leaves just after Sharon/Alessa glances at Dahlia and then leaves.

Hope this helped. :D


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 Post subject:

I don't see how Dahlia could be viewed as the villain of the movie, unless you blame her for being stupid enough to hand Alessa over to Christabella. I got the impression that Alessa was immaculately concieved, but I think that Gans intentionally left that detail vague. It has been debate as to whether or not Alessa had powers prior to being burned. I agree that she did, which would explain why she is considered to be the sin. Christabella couldn't get a straight answer out of Dahlia about the father, and I believe that she concluded that it was immaculate conception. I don't think that Dahlia knew this. She probably thought that Christabella thought that the ritual was to cleanse her of the sin of being born out of wedlock. This is why she didn't expect for Alessa to be burned.


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 Post subject:

Steohawk wrote:
I don't think that Dahlia knew this. She probably thought that Christabella thought that the ritual was to cleanse her of the sin of being born out of wedlock. This is why she didn't expect for Alessa to be burned.


What are you talking about? Dahlia willingly handed over Alessa to the cult to be "cleansed". I don't think she thought they were going to wash her with soap or anything. She was a *member* of the cult when it happened. Although she did feel remorse for cooperating with Christabella and the rest of the cultists, which resulted in Alessa's burning, she still went along with it.

That being said, I don't think that she is the villian in the movie. She was more like a gullible, mindless sheep until she realized what she (and the rest of the cultists) had done. I think the "villian" role is played by either (obviously) the cultists and Christabella, or dark Alessa, depending on your perspective.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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I just feel bad for movie Dahlia..and whats more I am kindda assuming she is kindda stuck there in the end.

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 Post subject:

Quote:
What are you talking about? Dahlia willingly handed over Alessa to the cult to be "cleansed". I don't think she thought they were going to wash her with soap or anything. She was a *member* of the cult when it happened. Although she did feel remorse for cooperating with Christabella and the rest of the cultists, which resulted in Alessa's burning, she still went along with it.

That being said, I don't think that she is the villian in the movie. She was more like a gullible, mindless sheep until she realized what she (and the rest of the cultists) had done. I think the "villian" role is played by either (obviously) the cultists and Christabella, or dark Alessa, depending on your perspective.


Oh! I see, so Dahlia doesn't get attacked because she was a mindless sheep. And the reason she doesn't get burned is because she thought that she was doing the right thing and because she regrets and feels remorse for her actions, unlike the other cultists.


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Gravedigger
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Gideon, so quick to pounce on another's theory...
Hold back a bit.

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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Thats what we do here..joke spam and pounce. Besides he wasn't being overly insulting or anything just showing he clearly didn't believe that was what the woman was thinking.

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 Post subject:

overachiever547 wrote:
Gideon, so quick to pounce on another's theory...
Hold back a bit.


Sorry overachiever, didn’t realize I was "pouncing". How about this, you try not to be so sensitive on the public message board, and I will try to more carefully relay my thoughts so that it doesn’t seem like pouncing. Feel better? Group Hug.

Some of it might have been subconscious pent up frustration about Steohawk’s “2 movies” theory.
:wink:


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Woodside Apartments Janitor
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There was no indication in the film that there was an immaculate conception, or that Alessa had power before she was burned. In fact, the movie explicitly states that the demon that visited Alessa was the source of the darkness, and that we only actually see Alessa at the end.

Dahlia was not aware that Alessa was the one to be punsished; otherwise there would not have been the scene where Christabella explains it at the last moment. In a way, the punishment was still aimed at Dahlia, as she would have to live with the knowledge of what happened to Alessa. That's not to say that there was absolutely no consideration of Alessa's innocence in the matter.

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“The sinister, the terrible never deceive: the state in which they leave us is always one of enlightenment. And only this condition of vicious insight allows us a full grasp of the world, all things considered, just as a frigid melancholy grants us full possession of ourselves. We may hide from horror only in the heart of horror."
--Thomas Ligotti


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 Post subject:

LastGunslinger wrote:
There was no indication in the film that there was an immaculate conception, or that Alessa had power before she was burned. In fact, the movie explicitly states that the demon that visited Alessa was the source of the darkness, and that we only actually see Alessa at the end.


I think I am one of the only ones here who agree with you on this. The movie (not the game) gives us no reason to believe Alessa had any powers or evil nature before the burning. I don't think the alter tipping is evidence of this - perhaps just the result of clumsy cult preperation.

Someone was arguing that the children calling her a "witch" was evidence. I think they only called Alessa a witch because the cult hated her because she was a bastard child. Maybe Christabella thought Dhalia was ruining her family name (if she was in fact her literal "sister") with her promiscuousness, so she started the rumors about the child. But take a look at the history of Puritan witch burnings and trials in early new England, and you'll see that the majority of time women were labeled a "witch" and made to pay for their "sins", the reason was rediculoius and unfounded. Just a result of paranoia and prejudice.

Besides, the cult never mentions anything about her being a witch. The cult (which displays much more Puritan-like qualities than the cult in the game) talks about atonement and "cleansing" the girl. "We punish the sin, not the sinner": they looked at Alessa as a "sin" incarnate of Dhalia's immoral lifestyle.

[EDIT]By the way, I don't think Dhalia had an "immoral" lifestyle. I think that was the perception of the cult and the town because of their fanatic beliefs. She has a child and no husband. So she either had a child out of wedlock, was divorced, or conceived the child through the powers of some supernatural nature (demon). Probably all three of these would be considered pretty bad in the eyes of the cult.[/EDIT]

I think if Gans had wanted us to believe that Alessa had powers before the burning, he would have used an additional scene in the flashback to show her getting angry at her classmates or the townspeople... something breaking or flying across the room or something.

LastGunslinger wrote:
Dahlia was not aware that Alessa was the one to be punsished; otherwise there would not have been the scene where Christabella explains it at the last moment. In a way, the punishment was still aimed at Dahlia, as she would have to live with the knowledge of what happened to Alessa. That's not to say that there was absolutely no consideration of Alessa's innocence in the matter.


I am not sure I agree whith this. Didn't the flashback show a scene where they were standing in a hallway or something and Dhalia reluctantly handed over Alessa to Christabella? Maybe I am making this all up in my head...


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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alessa was the victim of evil.. Dahlia was shown in the film as been a worried mother but then she realised what she done when she gave alesse to the cult.. Has you can see in the film.. Alessa gave her soul to the demon to seek revenge.. all the people in the church were actually the true evil ones though..thats why they were thrown in to the evil of silent hill.. And anyone who enters can never leave as we can see by the ending.. mad story.. But a god one at that

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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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I think Dahlia might have known something bad was going to happen but maybe not how bad. Maybe it was only when Christabella refered to her baby as a sin and not a person (Dahlia might have believed the girl would go through flogging or that kind of thing) that she finally realized what was going to happen and by then it was too late.

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 Post subject:

theshaman wrote:
alessa was the victim of evil.. Dahlia was shown in the film as been a worried mother but then she realised what she done when she gave alesse to the cult.. Has you can see in the film.. Alessa gave her soul to the demon to seek revenge.. all the people in the church were actually the true evil ones though..thats why they were thrown in to the evil of silent hill.. And anyone who enters can never leave as we can see by the ending.. mad story.. But a god one at that


I agree with this. That's why the origin of Alessa's powers (and also whether she was conceived by a demon or not) is important to the movie. If Alessa had some evil nature before the burning, it would support the Cultists as the "good" force and Alessa as an "evil" force.

If she was only a little girl before the burning, then the Hell created was only brought out by the Cultists overzealousness and arrogance of their believed purity. This would support the idea that the Cultists are the "evil" force and Alessa is the "good" force. Or at least a just force.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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gideon wrote:
theshaman wrote:
alessa was the victim of evil.. Dahlia was shown in the film as been a worried mother but then she realised what she done when she gave alesse to the cult.. Has you can see in the film.. Alessa gave her soul to the demon to seek revenge.. all the people in the church were actually the true evil ones though..thats why they were thrown in to the evil of silent hill.. And anyone who enters can never leave as we can see by the ending.. mad story.. But a god one at that


I agree with this. That's why the origin of Alessa's powers (and also whether she was conceived by a demon or not) is important to the movie. If Alessa had some evil nature before the burning, it would support the Cultists as the "good" force and Alessa as an "evil" force.

If she was only a little girl before the burning, then the Hell created was only brought out by the Cultists overzealousness and arrogance of their believed purity. This would support the idea that the Cultists are the "evil" force and Alessa is the "good" force. Or at least a just force.


yea exactly... alessa was different to the other children in the orfanage.. everyone called her a witch.. But she was an innocent young girl and the evil believes and false doing of the cult (burning her) unleashed her powers to evil.. She is now apart of the demon.. But she also has that side of innocence in her.. The demon simply helped her not take her whole soul over

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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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TessannaDelone wrote:
or a fun night of partying.


...Do you really think that The Cult had "fun nights of partying"?!
*Snort.*
Perhaps, after they burnt some witches, they'd go have a holy orgy in praise of their clarity.

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See, that's what Silent Hill's been missing: scantily clad bitches. Silent Hill 5 will feature an all-female cast of hyper-sexualized lifeguards and camp counselors stranded at Toluca lake. One of the puzzles will require that the player swap the characters' bathing suits, and you will be able to pursue a lesbian love story side-plot on Next Fear.


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Historical Society Historian
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....was reviving a year-old thread for that comment really needed? Really.

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I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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