Is Siren a spiritual sequel to this game?

[AuraTwilight]

I only remember timeloops in Blood Curse. Or am I missing something really subtle and obvious? (it took me two years to realize Harumi had ESP, for example.)

[Kenji]

In the first game, time loops were only hinted at in the gameplay (namely, the "Continue to Next Loop" bits, combined with secondary objectives that had characters going in the opposite cardinal direction at times) and the presence of 1976 buildings in what should be 2003, along with Hisako turning gray and cradling Datasushi's head (just like Hisako found her earlier, at 18:00 of Day 2). Yeah, it's subtle, but you can figure it out if you look at the Archives and movies obsessively...

Project Siren starts to make the time-looping thing more obvious starting with Siren 2, I hear. I think this was mostly because of fan feedback, along with the depopulation of snipers and multiple difficulty settings.

Aura, you're also in the Chrono Compendium forums, right? I actually discussed the Siren series with Zeality, because of the time travel aspect. He seemed interested enough.

[Lemex]

Isn't Siren Blood Curse just a remake of Siren?

[Kenji]

Isn't Siren Blood Curse just a remake of Siren?

Sort of.

Toyama has described it as "the movie version, based on true events," if that helps. It doesn't displace the original Siren from continuity. If anything, it was probably made just to introduce the first story to more players in a more easily accessible way. That and, from what I've seen, it does a magnificent job of highlighting the cultural differences between the Americans and Japanese.

I haven't played it, just like I haven't played Homecoming (no PS3), so I can't really comment further than that. Anyone who does, please use spoiler tags.

[Lemex]

I've played the first few chapters of Siren Blood Curse, and I thought, based on the tiny bit I played, the two where the same story line so I had to ask. And yes, it does a magnificent job.

[victim21]

They are similair, but not the same.

They have different Gods, theres less characters and certain story elements are missing. It's still pretty awesome though Keeps me squemish!

[AuraTwilight]

In the first game, time loops were only hinted at in the gameplay (namely, the "Continue to Next Loop" bits, combined with secondary objectives that had characters going in the opposite cardinal direction at times) and the presence of 1976 buildings in what should be 2003, along with Hisako turning gray and cradling Datasushi's head (just like Hisako found her earlier, at 18:00 of Day 2). Yeah, it's subtle, but you can figure it out if you look at the Archives and movies obsessively...

Well, the thing with Hisako I actually knew, but she's actually time travelling instead of the timeline really looping. Furthermore, the reappearance of buildings is because Datatsushi meshed the two ages together into a timeless Hanuda. The continue to next loop thing, imo, is more of a "Next level/day" thing, because of a word pun that was lost in translation.

Project Siren starts to make the time-looping thing more obvious starting with Siren 2, I hear. I think this was mostly because of fan feedback, along with the depopulation of snipers and multiple difficulty settings.

Indeed, but in Siren 2's case, it's all rendered moot when the entire universe is apparently rebooted.

Aura, you're also in the Chrono Compendium forums, right? I actually discussed the Siren series with Zeality, because of the time travel aspect. He seemed interested enough.

I used to, but due to stagnation and boring semantics debates, I left. I came back briefly to get the scoop on Chrono Trigger DS, got what I needed, and retired again. Who are you, on there?

Isn't Siren Blood Curse just a remake of Siren?

It's an alternate universe in the same way the American Ring series is an alternate universe to the original Ringu cycle.

I have a lot of nitpicks with Blood Curse, mainly that such resources should've been directed to a "true" Siren 3 instead of watering down and reserving the plot of the original. It does have some significant changes to keep you interested, but not enough to really last like the first two installments. Let's just say if you played Siren 1, you already know the Big Reveal.

[Kenji]

Well, the thing with Hisako I actually knew, but she's actually time travelling instead of the timeline really looping. Furthermore, the reappearance of buildings is because Datatsushi meshed the two ages together into a timeless Hanuda. The continue to next loop thing, imo, is more of a "Next level/day" thing, because of a word pun that was lost in translation.

It seems to be a combination of both. The Hanyuda of the three days (which, I had once calculated to be July 31-August 2, 2003, plus or minus a day) is removed from any normal timeline. When I visualize that timeline, it's like a surreal ball of yarn that periodically has strands leaving and returning to some linear timeline.

Harumi Yomoda, for instance, is the only one who escapes back to 2003, yet because of the nature of the episodes, I would suggest that she's also still in Hanyuda, replaying her journey to various degrees of success. Kyoya, on the other hand, ends up in 1933, though he doesn't seem to stay there. Hisako, as you mentioned, travels through time back to whenever the pertinent document was written (I don't know enough Japanese, but there must be some connection between Janokubi and this event, right?), while still existing in the "ball of yarn" and in her linear progression up to 2003.

Perhaps the fascinating part about this, for me, is that even though I can come to vague understandings of how this seems to work, can note patterns, and can even sense a definite purpose in the minds of the creative team - it's still confusing and really the picture of how mysterious a higher-dimensional event would be to us (hence, why I brought it up to Zeality as a great example of time travel in a videogame).

Indeed, but in Siren 2's case, it's all rendered moot when the entire universe is apparently rebooted.

I'm currently limping my way through Siren 2's Japanese version using Archive translations and surrealgamer's YouTube videos for the cinemas. Really makes the whole experience a lot of work, btw. Anyway, I can't really comment on Siren 2, but don't the endings ultimately spit the surviving characters out in different timelines? I think a "Yes/I think so" or "No/I don't think so" answer will suffice, since I'd like to not spoil myself any more than I already have...

I used to, but due to stagnation and boring semantics debates, I left. I came back briefly to get the scoop on Chrono Trigger DS, got what I needed, and retired again. Who are you, on there?

I'm Kenji, on those boards. I try to keep my username consistent. I don't post there very often, but if you remember where I did post, I'm the writer for "Unofficial Chrono Trigger 2." Or, what's left of it, in any case.

I definitely understand what you're saying. It's like I got into that board after all the interesting discussion had come and gone, and now the new threads really just retread the same ground as all those old discussion threads that the site's so proud of. I've been trying to post more actively, but there's really nothing to post about.

I have a lot of nitpicks with Blood Curse, mainly that such resources should've been directed to a "true" Siren 3 instead of watering down and reserving the plot of the original.

Well, they did go to great pains to say this isn't Siren 3, so I don't think this impacted the status of that game at all, except maybe pushed it back some. On the other hand, feedback from New Translation will likely result in a greatly improved Siren 3, if 2 and NT are any indication.

[AuraTwilight]

It seems to be a combination of both. The Hanyuda of the three days (which, I had once calculated to be July 31-August 2, 2003, plus or minus a day) is removed from any normal timeline. When I visualize that timeline, it's like a surreal ball of yarn that periodically has strands leaving and returning to some linear timeline.

Actually, everyone dissapeared on August 2, and Harumi remanifested the same day. The three "days" are only for their convienence, but they're in a timeless state.

Harumi Yomoda, for instance, is the only one who escapes back to 2003, yet because of the nature of the episodes, I would suggest that she's also still in Hanyuda, replaying her journey to various degrees of success. Kyoya, on the other hand, ends up in 1933, though he doesn't seem to stay there. Hisako, as you mentioned, travels through time back to whenever the pertinent document was written (I don't know enough Japanese, but there must be some connection between Janokubi and this event, right?), while still existing in the "ball of yarn" and in her linear progression up to 2003.

Harumi escapes to the real world, and successfully escapes the entirety of the Hanuda incident without timelooping, as revealed by Siren 2, because she didn't absorb any red water. She's totally free. Kyoya, you mean 1976. 33 is the amount of people he "killed", and he can never return to the real world, but in Siren 2, it's revealed that he apparently travels to other Otherworldly planes fighting the undead and cosmically evil as a protector of humanity, Miyako forever at his side.

Perhaps the fascinating part about this, for me, is that even though I can come to vague understandings of how this seems to work, can note patterns, and can even sense a definite purpose in the minds of the creative team - it's still confusing and really the picture of how mysterious a higher-dimensional event would be to us (hence, why I brought it up to Zeality as a great example of time travel in a videogame).

Yea, it is. Siren is one of those few fictions that present a cosmically distorted reality and make you grasp that, instead of throwing some magic and alternate dimensions and saying, "lol u cannot comprehend"

I'm currently limping my way through Siren 2's Japanese version using Archive translations and surrealgamer's YouTube videos for the cinemas. Really makes the whole experience a lot of work, btw. Anyway, I can't really comment on Siren 2, but don't the endings ultimately spit the surviving characters out in different timelines? I think a "Yes/I think so" or "No/I don't think so" answer will suffice, since I'd like to not spoil myself any more than I already have...

No, everyone comes out the same place-ish.

I'm Kenji, on those boards. I try to keep my username consistent. I don't post there very often, but if you remember where I did post, I'm the writer for "Unofficial Chrono Trigger 2." Or, what's left of it, in any case.

Mmmyiss.

I definitely understand what you're saying. It's like I got into that board after all the interesting discussion had come and gone, and now the new threads really just retread the same ground as all those old discussion threads that the site's so proud of. I've been trying to post more actively, but there's really nothing to post about.

Yea, really. The only discussion I really got into was the thing about Masamune's corruption. Really, until we get Chrono Break, that board is gonna die.

[Burning Man]

So does anyone know which members of Team Silent moved on to do Siren then?
Was it most of Team Silent or just two or three people?

Three people to be exact, although the third person joined Project Siren a bit later:
Keiichiro Toyama, Naoko Sato and Isao Takahashi.

Project Siren starts to make the time-looping thing more obvious starting with Siren 2, I hear.

There are no time loops in Siren 2. It uses a slightly different concept. I won't spoil it for you.

I have a lot of nitpicks with Blood Curse, mainly that such resources should've been directed to a "true" Siren 3 instead of watering down and reserving the plot of the original.

I wholeheartedly agree. Though, to be fair, the developers did state that it was because they wanted to focus on the cinematics instead. It was better for them to reuse old stuff, then to spend time making new ones.

The third entry in shibito.com is still blank, so here's hoping that a proper SIREN 3 is in development.

[AuraTwilight]

It better be, god-fucking-dammit. And they better bring over Siren 2, as well. It's not like it was so UBER MEGA POPULAR in the UK as to deserve special treatment.

[simeonalo]

Siren is a spiritual successor.

[DamienPales]

Siren is a special game for me because it is the only video game in all of recorded history which I have put down after about an hour because of god-awful voice-acting.

To call the voice-acting in this game atrocious would be an understatement.

[AuraTwilight]

Hey, thanks for your spammy flamebait. Switch to the Japanese audio.

[Kenji]

Unfortunately, there is no Japanese audio for the first Siren. That said, some voices (namely, Takeuchi Tamon and Miyata Shirou) really grew on me after ten hours of gameplay. Others (Anno Yoriko), not so much.

[AuraTwilight]

Really? I could've sworn there was. That's what I get for never playing the English version, I guess.

Either way, needless negativity.

[DamienPales]

Hey, thanks for your spammy flamebait. Switch to the Japanese audio.

I'm sorry, am I not allowed to say bad things about your favorite video game?

I guess now that Bishop Sasarai isn't playing the part anymore, someone has to be the VG Police around here...

[simeonalo]

The original RE's voice acting was horrible. As well as SH1's, bits of SH2's, and a lot of Fatal Frame 1. The point is, bad voice acting shouldn't take you out of the game.

There's a slot for a VG policeman? Sign me up

[Kenji]

Really? I could've sworn there was. That's what I get for never playing the English version, I guess.

Yup. It's actually the central reason why I convinced myself to buy the Japanese version, when it got on The Best lineup. Even though it still gives off that amateur DV vibe, the Japanese voice acting is so head and shoulders above the English effort.

Yoriko's still whiny, though.

As for bad voice acting in horror... yeah... at least RE's was hilarious. I actually prefer that kind of banter (or RE4's) to the way the series sometimes takes itself so damn serious while feeding me the cheesiest lines ever (Darkside Chronicles). Really, the only voice acting I found objectionable was the original Fatal Frame. There's really no excuse for delivery that bad (and unfunny).

[AuraTwilight]

I'm sorry, am I not allowed to say bad things about your favorite video game?

No, but since we weren't talking about the quality of the game itself but it's merits as a spiritual successor to Silent Hill, your post was pretty much off-topic negativity that serves no real purpose except to bait an argument.