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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19397
Last seen at: #lfk
Ad ignorantium doesn't make something so.

And, again, you can't use information from Silent Hill: Origins to prove its canonicity w/ the rest of the series. You have to use information from the previous Silent Hill games that proves nothing from the story was bungled in the development of the new game. That said, there are so many inconsistencies in SH:O, I believe the game should be considered non-canon.

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11371
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
Cause it’s Silent Hill, it wouldn’t be the first time that inner, subconscious thoughts manifest themselves as writing.


But why doesn't anyone else do so? Doesn't James have a survival instinct? Heather?

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Yes, but last time Dahlia saw Alessa was seven years a go. Again I ask, why is Dahlia so confident Alessa will protect her?


You're questioning the confidence of a woman who considers herself the grandmother of God. Come on, now, she's cocky to the point of crazy.

Quote:
Scary Cop Lady Who Will Stop The Ritual Which Will Cause Mass Destruction you mean?

Besides, how do you know how Flauros works in the game? Amy official explanation, or in-game-evidence?

From the in-game evidence, one can come to the conclusion that it gave Dahlia a small piece of Alessa’s powers, or at least some control over them.


Before 0rigins, all the Flauros did was "break boundaries", and in 0rigins, it also serves as a cage.

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Are you insinuating that Alessa is controlling every single monster?


Pretty much, yea.

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For all we know, the attack happened because Cybil became aware of the Otherworld, and therefore its monsters. Finally, with her belief she could interact with the creations of the said otherworld.


Or Alessa attacked Cybil because she became aware of her presence.

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As for Lisa, I just figured that was her cowardliness and weakness which she demonstrated before her death.

Even if she does manipulate her, I doubt that she is controlling everything Lisa says like you seem to insinuate she does.


Lisa wrote:
I just...Have this feeling that I shouldn't leave this room.


Not only that, but she also divulges information that benefits Alessa's side at the perfect moment.

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I always figured that the corpses were just manifestation like in the rest of Silent Hill games.


Apparently, they're supposed to be other Order members that got pulled in.

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Or maybe Lisa turned into a monster because she realized she’s a manifestation just like other monsters, and because of that, she strongly believed that she will turn into one? It wouldn’t be the first time that the Otherworld makes beliefs real.


You keep pulling that excuse, and fail to recognize that this is Alessa's world. Only she has power over reality, here. If she began degenerating, it's because Alessa's power was weakening. Alessa's abberant power is also what created Nowhere.

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As for PN, it also indicates that Dahlia is good, Lisa is evil, Cybil is dead, that her parents are alive, that her parents are dead, that Harry is a serial killer and that Cheryl and Alessa want to unite back into one.


Lol, that last one is true for SH1 too.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 20 Nov 2008
Notes left: 132
Quote:
Yeah, but, doesn’t it kind of contradict itself sometimes.

That's when you follow paths that clearly derail from the SH1 story. Stuff like seeing who is behind Cybil's possession are just confirming pretty obvious things.

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I always figured that the corpses were just manifestation like in the rest of Silent Hill games.

According to Lost Memories, they're cult members wearing ceremonial robes.

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Minutes before the fire, yes.

How do you figure that it's minutes and not, say, days?

Quote:
Yeah, but intro isn’t a very good source of information either. In it, we see the burnt Alessa getting up and smiling.

Where's the problem with that? btw The scenes in the intro are actual events that occurred before and during the game.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11371
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
Yeah, but intro isn’t a very good source of information either. In it, we see the burnt Alessa getting up and smiling.


She only smiles in the "Blooper" credit reel. In the intro, she just gets up, feels her forehead as if a migraine, and looks at the camera, and/or some sort of vision. Cheryl's arrival caused Alessa to wake up for her coma and thus cause the events of SH1.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Hope House Careworker
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Missing since: 12 Jan 2009
Notes left: 648
Quote:
But why doesn't anyone else do so? Doesn't James have a survival instinct? Heather?


They do leave messages for themselves, sort of. It’s just that their Thanathos beats their Eros.

Quote:
If you really want to see Mary, you should just die. But you might be heading to a different place than Mary, James.


Quote:
It would be better for "myself" to die.
After all, it's nothing
to be afraid of.
That child... that demon.
When I think of the endless pain
it will bring when it is birthed.
I decided that, instead of
the suffering and cruelty I endured in that sick room...

That I would like to bestow a
more gentle and peaceful death on "myself".
Why do "I" resist?
I never thought of "myself"
as such a fool..


Quote:
You're questioning the confidence of a woman who considers herself the grandmother of God. Come on, now, she's cocky to the point of crazy.


Very good point. I always felt that Dahlia’s Narcissism is one of her main motivation.

This is more or less what I always figured she believed:

SHE will be the one who will cause god’s birth.
HER daughter will be the vessel to do it with.
Screw the rest of the Order, they’re not needed, seeing as how SHE can do it in her own basement all one her own.
SHE will be the one who will save the world, and God will be grateful to HER, no one else, SHE is the one who is soley responsible for the creation of paradise, and EVERYONE will know it.

Quote:
Before 0rigins, all the Flauros did was "break boundaries", and in 0rigins, it also serves as a cage.


Fair enough. You still haven’t given a valid explanation on why does Dahlia posses the same powers Alessa does after they’re encounter at the Lake Side… You say that Alessa protected her, but we know that Alessa wanted god to be stopped no matter what, and if she really did possessed Cybil and killed a shitload of cultists, surely she would have let Cybil stop Dahlia before the god is born. Especially considering how little time was leaft.

Still, I have no energy to argue anymore, and we’re running in circles, so, you win.

Quote:
Pretty much, yea.


If she has the power to control hundreds of monsters, then why doesn’t she kill Harry herself, then and there?

However, I can totally see her consciously creating those monsters. Mainly, because they are created out of very shallow fears.

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Lol, that last one is true for SH1 too.


Hah! I was actually referring to the way Cheryl and Alessa scheme together and what not. They out right communicate with one-another and plan on how they’re gonna do it.

Besides, I doubt that Cheryl would want to die.

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How do you figure that it's minutes and not, say, days?


Quote:
she impulsively carried out the ritual


Look at that flash-back. You can totally picture a light-bulb over Dahlia’s head.
Doing something impulsively, usually means doing it out of… well, impulse! No planning, no thinking through it, just doing it then and there.

To be fair, it’s probably hours though.

Quote:
Where's the problem with that? btw The scenes in the intro are actual events that occurred before and during the game.


Game Intro < In-game-Evidence

Quote:
She only smiles in the "Blooper" credit reel. In the intro, she just gets up, feels her forehead as if a migraine, and looks at the camera, and/or some sort of vision. Cheryl's arrival caused Alessa to wake up for her coma and thus cause the events of SH1.


Now that I look at it again, I think you’re right… Strange, I thought she had a small, subtle smile for the longest time.

I feel very stupid, but, how do we know she awoke? We only see her astral-self, but not her body up until the very end of the game. And, I gotta say, her body seemed plenty comatosed to me.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11371
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
They do leave messages for themselves, sort of. It’s just that their Thanathos beats their Eros.


Heather's Eros won, though.

Quote:
Very good point. I always felt that Dahlia’s Narcissism is one of her main motivation.


Narcissism isn't the word I'd use, but yea.

Quote:
Fair enough. You still haven’t given a valid explanation on why does Dahlia posses the same powers Alessa does after they’re encounter at the Lake Side… You say that Alessa protected her, but we know that Alessa wanted god to be stopped no matter what, and if she really did possessed Cybil and killed a shitload of cultists, surely she would have let Cybil stop Dahlia before the god is born. Especially considering how little time was leaft.

Still, I have no energy to argue anymore, and we’re running in circles, so, you win.


Love For Mommy > Everything else, imo.

Quote:
If she has the power to control hundreds of monsters, then why doesn’t she kill Harry herself, then and there?

However, I can totally see her consciously creating those monsters. Mainly, because they are created out of very shallow fears.


She was probably trying to kill Harry, since monsters attack him, but he kicks their asses. There's also the Cheryl aspect of Alessa, which might be actively protecting him to some degree.

Quote:
Hah! I was actually referring to the way Cheryl and Alessa scheme together and what not. They out right communicate with one-another and plan on how they’re gonna do it.

Besides, I doubt that Cheryl would want to die.


Scheming together doesn't equate to the "wanting to merge" thing, which is kind've true in SH1 too. Though Cheryl doesn't want to die, she has the inescapable subconscious need to be with her "sister."

Quote:
Game Intro = In-game-Evidence


Fixed.

Quote:
Now that I look at it again, I think you’re right… Strange, I thought she had a small, subtle smile for the longest time.

I feel very stupid, but, how do we know she awoke? We only see her astral-self, but not her body up until the very end of the game. And, I gotta say, her body seemed plenty comatosed to me.


Because we see her do it. Her ass rises out of bed and she looks around, then not much later we, see Harry's truck crash into Alessa's astral projection. As for why her body was comatose in the end scene? IMO, Cheryl's presence woke her up, she realized what was going on, then she projected her soul and merged with Cheryl, then created the Otherworld. So the two girls are the end are the pregnant, burned body with no soul, and the completed soul of Alessa, probably astral now as Cheryl's body was probably a manifestation.

_________________
BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 20 Nov 2008
Notes left: 132
AuraTwilight wrote:
She was probably trying to kill Harry, since monsters attack him, but he kicks their asses. There's also the Cheryl aspect of Alessa, which might be actively protecting him to some degree.

Agreed, I think she was torn. Part of her resolved to stop everyone who'd get in her way at any cost, even if it meant to kill her real mother and foster father, but part of her (Cheryl) wanted help and we see it manifested through phone calls, hints and tv screens.
Harry's memo in SH3: "Why do I feel like she's looking for someone to help?"


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Hope House Careworker
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Missing since: 12 Jan 2009
Notes left: 648
Quote:
Heather's Eros won, though.


At that particular moment of time I meant.

Regardless, you can’t say that the protagonists never left notes or writing to themselves.

Quote:
Narcissism isn't the word I'd use, but yea.


What word would you use?

The point is that Dahlia is an arrogant, power hungry attention whore who craves to be worshiped and admired.

Makes you wonder what her childhood was like.

Quote:
She was probably trying to kill Harry, since monsters attack him, but he kicks their asses. There's also the Cheryl aspect of Alessa, which might be actively protecting him to some degree.


You’re kind of contradicting yourself.

AuraTwilight wrote:
How can Harry be Alessa's hero if he's not fighting her nightmares?


So, which one is it? Is Alessa controlling her nightmares and is actively trying to kill Harry, or does she have no control of them and is grateful to him for killing them?

Is he her victim or her hero?

Is she the villain or the damsel in distress?

Quote:
Fixed.


Not when the intro directly contradicts the in-game evidence. Either they lived in the middle of nowhere, or they had neighbors who were close enough for the fire to spread to there houses as well. You cannot have it both ways.

Quote:
Because we see her do it. Her ass rises out of bed and she looks around, then not much later we, see Harry's truck crash into Alessa's astral projection. As for why her body was comatose in the end scene? IMO, Cheryl's presence woke her up, she realized what was going on, then she projected her soul and merged with Cheryl, then created the Otherworld. So the two girls are the end are the pregnant, burned body with no soul, and the completed soul of Alessa, probably astral now as Cheryl's body was probably a manifestation.


Possibly. Granted, it was in Dahlia’s interest that they merge as well. Alessa needed Cheryl so that she can kill herself, Dahlia needed Cheryl so that she could make Alessa birth god.

You’re probably right though.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11371
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
At that particular moment of time I meant.

Regardless, you can’t say that the protagonists never left notes or writing to themselves.


Heather and James are the only real examples, James with the letter from Mary thing, and Heather pretty much had split personalities, and thus isn't typical. The message she got was from "Alessa".

Quote:
So, which one is it? Is Alessa controlling her nightmares and is actively trying to kill Harry, or does she have no control of them and is grateful to him for killing them?

Is he her victim or her hero?

Is she the villain or the damsel in distress?


She's obviously both. Alessa at this point is a merge of two contradictory girls: One who seeks death, and one who wants to be rescued. One that wants Harry to leave her alone, another that keeps on calling him closer and egging him on.

Quote:
Not when the intro directly contradicts the in-game evidence. Either they lived in the middle of nowhere, or they had neighbors who were close enough for the fire to spread to there houses as well. You cannot have it both ways.


I see no contradiction. Fire can spread across grass, you know, even in rain.

_________________
BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Hope House Careworker
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Missing since: 12 Jan 2009
Notes left: 648
*claps* You win.

I'll give you some moneys.


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Hope House Careworker
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Missing since: 18 Dec 2006
Notes left: 708
Mockingbird wrote:
And, again, you can't use information from Silent Hill: Origins to prove its canonicity w/ the rest of the series. You have to use information from the previous Silent Hill games that proves nothing from the story was bungled in the development of the new game. That said, there are so many inconsistencies in SH:O, I believe the game should be considered non-canon.


But that's a very flawed path of thinking.

I could easily say that SH2 isn't canon, since it isn't supported by the first game, and the only game to mention it since has been SH4, and I can just pretend that it's unconnected because there could be more than one Sunderland, much like you dismissed the truck driver in Homecoming from being Travis because it isn't said out-right in game (whether or not you actually believe that is something else entirely; I can't remember the context it was used under.)

I can say that SH3 didn't happen because Claudia wasn't at all mentioned in Silent Hill 1 or 2.

Eh, I'm just arguing for the sake of arguing, but I felt like putting that out there.

When you get this essay up, please tell me. Or don't considering I check out the board at least once every three days. xP I'm actually really interested in these inconcistencies, since I'm sure they're there and I'm just an idiot; wouldn't be the first time.

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I once was lost, but am now profound.


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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19397
Last seen at: #lfk
>But that's a very flawed path of thinking.
Only when you misinterpret the reasoning.

_________________
This post is the property of its author and is not to be used elsewhere without explicit permission from the author.

. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 03 Oct 2012
Notes left: 254
Last seen at: Isle of Man
I know this is a really old thread, but I spotted something in it that I've not seen mentioned elsewhere and I didn't want to make a new thread if it isn't necessary. I'd always thought that the game somewhat implied that Alessa had been made to use her power to kill the mayor and police officer, but the Guidebook appears to state that this was not the case, and that in fact their deaths took place after she had been burned:

Quote:
However, being a firsthand witness to the deaths of the mayor and a narcotics officer, both of which were brought about by means of the magic drawn from the embryonic malevolent god's power, it seems he came to the decision that if the magic was something he could use, he would take advantage of it.

Silent Hill Official Guidebook Complete Edition. Tokyo: Konami Computer Entertainment, 1999.


I also found this part interesting, though it's (I suspect deliberately) rather vague and open to interpretation:
Quote:
After uniting, Alessa had acquired psychic powers such as teleportation--
powers that she had always possessed. If she had been living under normal circumstances, these powers would almost never manifest themselves. Alessa naturally possessed a certain amount of spiritual intuition and at that point in time her "sixth sense" was powerful enough that she was having premonitions, but these were more like hunches than supernatural powers. Her mother Dahlia may have performed magic and the like, but this does not mean she had special powers. Could it be that having the malevolent deity dwelling within her body and uniting with Cheryl were what led Alessa to acquire supernatural powers?


It seems to suggest that pre-burning her powers may not have been as great as I'd originally thought., which makes me wonder what it was that she was reluctant to do for Dahlia. Of course it also seems to strongly contradict Heather's declaration that she could kill someone with her thoughts.

ETA
This is interesting too:
Quote:
-In the car on the way to Silent Hill, Heather tells Douglas that Alessa had
"a power that wasn't normal and could not be explained." Jeremy Blaustein
reworded this sentence as "she could make things happen with her mind."

_________________
For anyone that might be interested in such things, some links to my music, of the alternative rock kind -
http://postcode.bandcamp.com/
http://soundcloud.com/zebracore
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Postcode/99794277098

And my Post-Rock band Nanaki -
https://nanaki.bandcamp.com


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Who did Alessa kill?
     
         
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Missing since: 19 Sep 2014
Notes left: 22
Last seen at: Toluca Lake
I believe she always had powers, the "powers would almost never manifest themselves" bit I think means that she just chose never to use them, and wouldn't choose to use them if she hadn't been burned.
Being pregnant with god just amplified them and made her immortal.


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