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Hope House Careworker
 Post subject: Who did Alessa kill?

Missing since: 12 Jan 2009
Notes left: 648
Weird, yet simple question.

In SH3 Heather points out that Alessa could kill people just by wishing for it. But, for her to know that, she, as Alessa, had to have done it, at least once.

Or maybe she didn’t, in the original Silent Hill, we see that Dahlia, who isn’t born with any (or at least with not very strong) powers, calmly using telekinesis and psychic shields, powers which belong to Alessa. However, she hasn’t demonstrated any of those powers before the Flauros was used. So, from that we can assume that Dahlia drains Alessa’s powers with Flauros and uses it to temporarily give herself her daughter’s powers.

We see something to that effect happening in the flash-back.

Quote:
C’mon! C’mon! I just want you to lend me a teeny bit of your power, that’s all.

...

It will make everyone happy, and it’s for your own good too


And...

Quote:
But the power we could draw from her now would be weak. Almost nothing


The point is we see the in-game evidence that Dahlia and her partners in crime used Alessa’s powers for something. We also know that people involved with the development of the town started mysteriously dying, and that the anti-drugs mayor died from the heart attack, as did the narcotics detective Gucci.

Alessa had no reason to want those people dead, but Dahlia and Kauffman did.

However, we never see any in-game evidence that Alessa never consciously killed anyone.


Or maybe we do? I don’t really know. My theory is that Dahlia, using Flauros and Alessa’s powers, went around killing people, not Alessa. However, if there are any evidence that Alessa did in fact kill someone, feel free to share.



Man, I seem to have a real talent for writing a lot, and yet saying so little... Sorry about that :x .


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Brookhaven Receptionist
 Post subject:

Missing since: 30 Nov 2003
Notes left: 837
Last seen at: Pennsylvania
I don't know of any evidence that Alessa actually used that power against anyone. However, I don't think the exercise of the power would have been necessary for Heather to have been aware of it; after all:

[spoiler]Heather is Alessa.[/spoiler]


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 06 Jan 2009
Notes left: 5
Last seen at: Toluca Lake
She could just simply know the limits of Alessa's powers...

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The only dependable thing about the future is uncertainty...


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
I figured that Dahlia simply forced Alessa to use her powers to kill Gucci and the mayor, until at which point Alessa started refusing, and Dahlia decided to use her to birth God. There's no actual evidence that Dahlia could steal Alessa's power, as she was casting spells even before the Flauros incident.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Hope House Careworker
 Post subject:

Missing since: 12 Jan 2009
Notes left: 648
Thank you Aura. I was about to embarrassingly say "lock plz" and walk out with a tail between my legs. :lol:

Yes, Rob and Rune, that is a very good point... Which for some reason never occurred to me. I just figured Alessa didn’t have much of an understanding about her powers before the burning. Mainly, because when ever we saw her in the flash-backs, she’s either crying, or cowering, or running around playfully... I know that if I was a seven-year-old with god like powers of which I’m well aware of, I’d be busting some serious heads, and be summoning giant spider robots... But, I’m not Alessa, am I?... -__-

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I figured that Dahlia simply forced Alessa to use her powers to kill Gucci and the mayor, until at which point Alessa started refusing, and Dahlia decided to use her to birth God. There's no actual evidence that Dahlia could steal Alessa's power, as she was casting spells even before the Flauros incident.



But we don’t. Not really. We know she did, but we had never witnessed it. We know she used a spell to draw Cheryl to Silent Hill, but even with that she used Alessa’s pain. She also preformed gyromancy, but that actually takes some effort and preparation.

What we witnessed after the Flauros incident, was nothing like that. I didn’t hear her chanting any spells as she was teleporting herself and Alessa. Nor did I see her holding any talismans when she created that bullet proof shield, or when she telekinetically pushed Cybil away. She did it with a mere thought. That and the fact that she was unable to do any of it before the Flauros incident led me to believe that she had borrowed some of the Alessa’s powers.

Besides, she said it herself... "I just need you to lend me a teeny bit of your power"

She didn’t ask her to do a little something for her, she asked her to lend her some power... But of course, that could just as well be a bad translation.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
Yes, Rob and Rune, that is a very good point... Which for some reason never occurred to me. I just figured Alessa didn’t have much of an understanding about her powers before the burning. Mainly, because when ever we saw her in the flash-backs, she’s either crying, or cowering, or running around playfully... I know that if I was a seven-year-old with god like powers of which I’m well aware of, I’d be busting some serious heads, and be summoning giant spider robots... But, I’m not Alessa, am I?... -__-


All Alessa ever wanted was her mother's love. Thus, her behavior.

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But we don’t. Not really. We know she did, but we had never witnessed it. We know she used a spell to draw Cheryl to Silent Hill, but even with that she used Alessa’s pain. She also preformed gyromancy, but that actually takes some effort and preparation.


One could make a case that Dahlia was in the Otherworld of her own free will and forced her way in, since Alessa created it to hide from her; she apparently left messages for Travis too. She probably just had spells already prepared in SH1, or was using the Flauros' natural powers.

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Besides, she said it herself... "I just need you to lend me a teeny bit of your power"


yea, like she had Alessa lend her power to kill Gucci. The phrase probably has the same meaning as, "lend me a hand" or "lend me your assistance." I doubt that Alessa can literally break off a piece of her psychic powers and go "LOL HEER U GO"

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Hope House Careworker
 Post subject:

Missing since: 28 Feb 2006
Notes left: 731
Last seen at: Australia
When I hear about the wishing people dead thing I thought she may have done it with one of her classmates who teased her alot.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
That's certainly possible, though if she did, we never learned about it.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Hope House Careworker
 Post subject:

Missing since: 12 Jan 2009
Notes left: 648
Quote:
All Alessa ever wanted was her mother's love. Thus, her behavior.


True. But I don't see how intimidating her cruel class mates, or pulling childish pranks would stop her mother from loving her... Granted, this is Dahlia we're talking about, but even still...

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One could make a case that Dahlia was in the Otherworld of her own free will and forced her way in, since Alessa created it to hide from her; she apparently left messages for Travis too. She probably just had spells already prepared in SH1, or was using the Flauros' natural powers.


Messages? You meet the "you saw what happened to that nurse, blah, blah, blah... GTFO, ya redneck!" – I always figured that message came from Travis's subconscious, since no one except Travis and the Butcher saw the nurse's demise.

Just look at the first part of the Good+ ending, she is timing it just right. And if she gains those powers just by having the Flauros in her possession, then why did she even need Alessa to kill anyone when she could have easily just teleported to the Gucci's house, and then telekinetically pushed him/her(?) out of the window? Seems like less of an effort then manipulating her daughter in to doing it for her.

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yea, like she had Alessa lend her power to kill Gucci. The phrase probably has the same meaning as, "lend me a hand" or "lend me your assistance." I doubt that Alessa can literally break off a piece of her psychic powers and go "LOL HEER U GO"


Good point. But I never said that Alessa could do that on her own, Flauros on the other hand... Well, we already saw the effect that thing has on her powers.



Still, you're probably right. We see Dahlia as a person who is constantly manipulating and/or corrupting innocent children to achieve her goals (Claudia, Walter, Cheryl and of course Alessa), I wouldn't put it pass her to use her daughters desire to please in order to manipulate her into killing people.

But it honestly seems like less of a trouble to do it herself using the Flauros to draw Alessa's powers. Besides, you are conveniently ignoring the cultist doctor guy’s statement:

Quote:
but the power we could draw from her now...


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Hope House Careworker
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Missing since: 18 Dec 2006
Notes left: 708
Quote:
And if she gains those powers just by having the Flauros in her possession, then why did she even need Alessa to kill anyone when she could have easily just teleported to the Gucci's house, and then telekinetically pushed him/her(?) out of the window? Seems like less of an effort then manipulating her daughter in to doing it for her.


She didn't have any powers thanks to the Flauros. Her magic is based around spells and artifacts (and not the Flauros). If that were true, a lot of things wouldn't make very much sense.

And technically, since we're never shown any of her powers outside of the Otherworld, I sort of assumed her powers that she exhibits there exist because she believes them to be real. So she needed Alessa because in the real world, she was powerless.

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I once was lost, but am now profound.


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Hope House Careworker
 Post subject:

Missing since: 12 Jan 2009
Notes left: 648
Nillin wrote:
She didn't have any powers thanks to the Flauros. Her magic is based around spells and artifacts (and not the Flauros). If that were true, a lot of things wouldn't make very much sense.


I know. But I think Aura was insinuating she did, or rather, that she was controling Flauros's power.

My theory, however, is that she used the Flauros to "lend" powers from miss Alessa and use them for her own selfish gain.

Nillin wrote:
And technically, since we're never shown any of her powers outside of the Otherworld, I sort of assumed her powers that she exhibits there exist because she believes them to be real. So she needed Alessa because in the real world, she was powerless.


Another interesting theory. But, I'm not sure if that's possible, since she's in Alessa's otherworld, not her own.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
True. But I don't see how intimidating her cruel class mates, or pulling childish pranks would stop her mother from loving her... Granted, this is Dahlia we're talking about, but even still...


Because in all media, Alessa is depicted as a kind, sweet, good little girl before the burning, who by no means did anything to deserve being hurt by anyone. She was basically Cheryl.

Quote:
Messages? You meet the "you saw what happened to that nurse, blah, blah, blah... GTFO, ya redneck!" – I always figured that message came from Travis's subconscious, since no one except Travis and the Butcher saw the nurse's demise.


Implied to be Dahlia; Travis' subconscious is what's pushing him forward.

Quote:
Just look at the first part of the Good+ ending, she is timing it just right. And if she gains those powers just by having the Flauros in her possession, then why did she even need Alessa to kill anyone when she could have easily just teleported to the Gucci's house, and then telekinetically pushed him/her(?) out of the window? Seems like less of an effort then manipulating her daughter in to doing it for her.


The Flauros, if it does grant powers, seems like it can only do so in the Otherworld. But it doesn't matter, we already know tht Dahlia is basically a witch.

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Good point. But I never said that Alessa could do that on her own, Flauros on the other hand... Well, we already saw the effect that thing has on her powers.


Yea, but there's no proof the Flauros lets someone else use that power, that's something else entirely.

Quote:
Still, you're probably right. We see Dahlia as a person who is constantly manipulating and/or corrupting innocent children to achieve her goals (Claudia, Walter, Cheryl and of course Alessa), I wouldn't put it pass her to use her daughters desire to please in order to manipulate her into killing people.

But it honestly seems like less of a trouble to do it herself using the Flauros to draw Alessa's powers. Besides, you are conveniently ignoring the cultist doctor guy’s statement:


Less of a trouble? Using occult rituals which apparently take a while to complete is more of a hassle than "Hey, Alessa, do this and Mommy will give you a special treat" or whatever.

Quote:
but the power we could draw from her now...


Way to leave out context. They're discussing the God birthing ritual, which draws on Alessa's power as a mother.

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I know. But I think Aura was insinuating she did, or rather, that she was controling Flauros's power.


I was only suggesting it because although baseless and silly, it holds more weight than Dahlia actually stealing Alessa's powers.

Quote:
Another interesting theory. But, I'm not sure if that's possible, since she's in Alessa's otherworld, not her own.


I know it's from the movie, but...

Dark Alessa wrote:
Their blind faith keeps me out.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Hope House Careworker
 Post subject:

Missing since: 12 Jan 2009
Notes left: 648
Quote:
Because in all media, Alessa is depicted as a kind, sweet, good little girl before the burning, who by no means did anything to deserve being hurt by anyone. She was basically Cheryl.


Except when she’s killing people when her mommy tells her to?

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Implied to be Dahlia


How?

Quote:
Less of a trouble? Using occult rituals which apparently take a while to complete is more of a hassle than "Hey, Alessa, do this and Mommy will give you a special treat" or whatever.


Yeah, but convincing a seven year old, or anyone for that matter in to consciously killing someone must not be an easy task either. Besides, there’s always a chance that the person you’re convincing into killing someone would mess it up, especially if they’re like, seven. You know how the saying goes- “If you want to do something right…”

Quote:
Way to leave out context. They're discussing the God birthing ritual, which draws on Alessa's power as a mother.


They did say we… Not god, we. And apparently, Kaufmann wasn’t all too pleased when God was born, since it wasn’t “what they agreed”, but, he seems more then a little pissed when the doctor guy comments on them being unable draw any more power… Granted you’re probably right.

Quote:
I was only suggesting it because although baseless and silly, it holds more weight than Dahlia actually stealing Alessa's powers.


Again, we didn’t see Dahlia teleport, knock people out with her mind, or make an invisible, bullet proof shield before the Flauros zapped Alessa.

And saying those were just spells she cast before hand, and somehow managed to time just right is even more baseless.


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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 08 Nov 2008
Notes left: 357
Last seen at: Blackwater Park
Rob Matter wrote:
I don't know of any evidence that Alessa actually used that power against anyone.


she made the one guy's nose bleed in Artaud Theater.

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there's comfort in silence


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Hope House Careworker
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Missing since: 12 Jan 2009
Notes left: 648
There still aren’t any evidence that it was intentional.

Besides... Origins ain't cannon :P .


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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 08 Nov 2008
Notes left: 357
Last seen at: Blackwater Park
Arsonist wrote:
There still aren’t any evidence that it was intentional.


I can't exactly recall the memo but i got the impression that was, indeed.

Quote:
Besides... Origins ain't cannon :P .


sure. whatever you say.

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there's comfort in silence


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Hope House Careworker
 Post subject:

Missing since: 12 Jan 2009
Notes left: 648
I sort of remember a memo about some girl (Alessa) sneaking in to the theater and watching the actors practice, she didn't like Prospero, and then the actor got a nosebleed.

It still doesn’t mean that it was intentional.

In all seriousness, canon or not, Origins really missed Alessa’s character by a mile. Sad.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 24 Jun 2007
Notes left: 2121
please explain why you think origins is "not cannon (sic)". i'm seeing that parroted around here a lot, with no reasons given, and i'm curious.

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no longer active. thanks for the memories.


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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 08 Nov 2008
Notes left: 357
Last seen at: Blackwater Park
Arsonist wrote:
In all seriousness, canon or not, Origins really missed Alessa’s character by a mile. Sad.


the same way they did with lisa and made the fanboys cry, i guess. neat.

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Hope House Careworker
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Missing since: 12 Jan 2009
Notes left: 648
I was actually joking, hence the smilie.

But, I’d guess it’s because of the contradictions to the first game.

In Origins, Alessa seems to be evil, manipulative and blood-thirsty, in SH1 and SH3 she was a tragically abused child who just wanted her batshit mother to love her.

In Origins, Kauffman seems to be the brains, while in SH1, Dahlia was the one who thought of and executed the whole thing.

In SH1, it was stated that Alessa was in the basement when the fire happened, she was in the attic in Origins.

And I’m pretty sure I read in some place official sounding that the whole soul splitting thing was an accident. But the whole plot in Origins, revolves around Alessa, trying to manipulate Travis in to piecing the Flauros for her, so that she could split her soul.

Still, I, personally accept Origins as cannon.

EDIT:

Quote:
the same way they did with lisa and made the fanboys cry, i guess. neat.


Well to be fair, her character development in Origins is actually realistic. And we already knew that she was a selfish crack-whore in SH1, seeing how she agreed not to tell anyone about Alessa, and let them abuse the comatosed girl for seven years, just so that they would still give her the drugs.


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