Lisa Garland
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Yes, like three minutes before. We're being shown her waking up because it's significant, Tommy.
If Alessa was conscious don't you think she'd explain what was going on to Lisa? Lisa knows nothing, as evidenced by her diary. She is confused and floored by Alessa's condition, and doesn't understand why she won't die. If Alessa was conscious, she would turn to Lisa for assistance and try and explain the situation to her.
If Alessa was conscious don't you think she'd explain what was going on to Lisa? Lisa knows nothing, as evidenced by her diary. She is confused and floored by Alessa's condition, and doesn't understand why she won't die. If Alessa was conscious, she would turn to Lisa for assistance and try and explain the situation to her.
"Oh yeah, I've been here before
I can see it with eyes closed
Shadows that look like blood
Dead as far as the mind goes
Fear that comes from my head
Lives in the mirror"
I can see it with eyes closed
Shadows that look like blood
Dead as far as the mind goes
Fear that comes from my head
Lives in the mirror"
- DamienPales
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I agree with that, Droo, but I'm a bit confused about what Alessa is actually capable of when she wakes up. During her comatose state, her nightmares are pretty much what Harry sees in the Otherworld. When she wakes up, does she then consciously project her nightmares onto the town? And while she was still in a coma, was she capable of dragging people into her Otherworld in order to accomplish whatever?
I ask this because Travis is dragged into an Otherworld similar to the one in SH1, and I'm not sure how this is possible if Alessa is in a coma. As a psychic, I would imagine she has some subconscious power that is still capable of wreaking havoc even though she is not fully conscious.
I also wonder how police officers and the mayor were dying if Alessa was sleeping in the hospital basement...unless Kaufmann is sneaking them drugs for them to overdose on.
I ask this because Travis is dragged into an Otherworld similar to the one in SH1, and I'm not sure how this is possible if Alessa is in a coma. As a psychic, I would imagine she has some subconscious power that is still capable of wreaking havoc even though she is not fully conscious.
I also wonder how police officers and the mayor were dying if Alessa was sleeping in the hospital basement...unless Kaufmann is sneaking them drugs for them to overdose on.
Once Alessa is whole again, she is able to manifest the Otherworld and immediately launch her plan to use the Seal of Metratron and the Otherworld to obliterate herself.
Travis' Otherworld in Origins is, I believe, his own creation. It's a part of his own personal traumas because of his mother's delusional belief in a world behind the mirror. The town, which has always had mystical energies, manifested that as part of his personal trial. Alessa was able to tap into this, sense the utility of such an Otherworld, and create one herself for her own purposes.
Alessa was capable of what she did in Origins because she was still whole. Once Cheryl was split from her, she used her last remaining bit of power to get Cheryl to the side of the highway before falling comatose for seven years.
The police officers and other citizens who were dying mysteriously were being murdered by members of The Order that were then dressed up to look like accidents. Or, they just hid the bodies. "People were being summoned away by the spirits." Remember Lisa saying something to that effect?
Travis' Otherworld in Origins is, I believe, his own creation. It's a part of his own personal traumas because of his mother's delusional belief in a world behind the mirror. The town, which has always had mystical energies, manifested that as part of his personal trial. Alessa was able to tap into this, sense the utility of such an Otherworld, and create one herself for her own purposes.
Alessa was capable of what she did in Origins because she was still whole. Once Cheryl was split from her, she used her last remaining bit of power to get Cheryl to the side of the highway before falling comatose for seven years.
The police officers and other citizens who were dying mysteriously were being murdered by members of The Order that were then dressed up to look like accidents. Or, they just hid the bodies. "People were being summoned away by the spirits." Remember Lisa saying something to that effect?
"Oh yeah, I've been here before
I can see it with eyes closed
Shadows that look like blood
Dead as far as the mind goes
Fear that comes from my head
Lives in the mirror"
I can see it with eyes closed
Shadows that look like blood
Dead as far as the mind goes
Fear that comes from my head
Lives in the mirror"
Actually, I’m pretty sure that the mayor, the people involved in the development of the town, and possibly officer Gucci died before Alessa’s burning. They had heart attacks caused by Alessa’s power, Alessa was either manipulated by Dahlia into killing them, or Dahlia had the ability to control Alessa’s powers by using the Flauros.The police officers and other citizens who were dying mysteriously were being murdered by members of The Order that were then dressed up to look like accidents. Or, they just hid the bodies. "People were being summoned away by the spirits." Remember Lisa saying something to that effect?
As for the young people that were disappearing, that was before Alessa’s burning for sure. More specifically the "young people" who were being "summoned by the gods" were young girls/women, kidnapped by the Order so that they could try and impregnate them with their god.
As for Alessa’s coma business, I believe she really was in a coma, however her "sleep" seemed to have shifted from stages. We kind of see that in the otherworld in SH1, we have shifting between the light-snowing-foggy-otherworld, dark-but-relatively-normal-snowing-otherworld and dark-industrial-completely-batshit-raining-otherworld. That, I believe was confirmed to represent stages of sleep. It is quite possible that Alessa was semi-lucid about the world around her during those "light" stages, but still remained unresponsive to stymuly.
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I could probably argue that the waking up happens after Alessa and Cheryl's respective half-souls merge into one. A person with a soul is considered alive and a person without a soul is considered dead. So, it only makes sense to me that a person with half-a-soul would be comatose, neither conscious nor unconscious.Droo wrote:Yes, like three minutes before.
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- AuraTwilight
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Actually, I was the one initially making the argument. As I said two pages ago, I think it's perfectly reasonable to consider that Dahlia's description of Alessa being trapped in a nightmare may be metaphorical. Wouldn't it be fair to say that Harry is trapped in a nightmare from which he cannot awaken?AuraTwilight wrote:Come on, MMY, you're being argumentative for the sake of itself at this point. . .
I'm not saying that I don't believe Alessa has been comatose, I was really just sort of wondering aloud if there was any solid evidence to confirm it. Since it appears (to my eyes) that there is no such solid evidence, I will defer to the more intuitive evidence, which still suggests that Alessa was comatose.
- 4&20DeadBirds
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- AuraTwilight
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From the events of Origins? Her soul self was still aware and active during the events of Origins. Also, while not physically conscious, I think her powers allowed her to be cognizant of events around her while not being "awake" in the physical sense.
"Oh yeah, I've been here before
I can see it with eyes closed
Shadows that look like blood
Dead as far as the mind goes
Fear that comes from my head
Lives in the mirror"
I can see it with eyes closed
Shadows that look like blood
Dead as far as the mind goes
Fear that comes from my head
Lives in the mirror"
- The Adversary
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I'm not quite sure of what all your opinions on this are, but I personally like to think that the Lisa we meet in the game is simply a construct created by Alessa intentionally, like a piece of programming. Lisa had no idea of her purpose, and was given free will and independent thought but had a set of limitations. She couldn't leave that room for example, she knew that it was the only safe place for her. She didn't know why of course. Alessa must have figured that simply putting Lisa there would be enough to keep Harry distracted; however, Lisa ended up helped Harry instead of containing him as she was able to make choices on her own.
But since Lisa was no longer living, the stability of her entire being depended on Alessa. She was the glue that kept Lisa together. So when Alessa loses control, Lisa has to forcibly hold herself together (I interpret this as the eye twitch that we witness. Something is clearly off about her at this point) and forgets her limitations and ventures out of her safety zone to discover the truth about her existence. When she does, all hell breaks lose and she falls apart completely clinging desperately to the only thing capable of holding it's ground independently in "nowhere", Harry.
and he turns around and runs from her like a scared little girl. >.>
Lisa, I would have stayed with you even if you were acting crazy. We could have basked in each others insanity. T_T
and if any of you dispute what I said, feel free to tell me.
But since Lisa was no longer living, the stability of her entire being depended on Alessa. She was the glue that kept Lisa together. So when Alessa loses control, Lisa has to forcibly hold herself together (I interpret this as the eye twitch that we witness. Something is clearly off about her at this point) and forgets her limitations and ventures out of her safety zone to discover the truth about her existence. When she does, all hell breaks lose and she falls apart completely clinging desperately to the only thing capable of holding it's ground independently in "nowhere", Harry.
and he turns around and runs from her like a scared little girl. >.>
Lisa, I would have stayed with you even if you were acting crazy. We could have basked in each others insanity. T_T
and if any of you dispute what I said, feel free to tell me.
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Yea, but I don't think there is any way to tell for sure, is there? I kinda like the idea that Alessa remade Lisa with a purpose in mind, but that could just be the fan-fictiony part of my brain acting up.AuraTwilight wrote:I mostly agree with what you said, Grievous, though I don't think Alessa intentionally revived/remade Lisa. She's basically dreaming.
I actually think I'm going to write some fan-fiction where the events of silent hill are told through Lisa's eyes, at least the portion that she witnessed. Sounds like fun. I'll be sure to post it when I finish if anyone cares.
Well, if the theory that Lisa herself is the Virun VII Crest of Alchemilla is correct, that does undeniably indicate that Alessa has at least one very specific purpose for Lisa, and also suggests a large level of control over the nature and construction of the beings inhabiting her world.
"Oh yeah, I've been here before
I can see it with eyes closed
Shadows that look like blood
Dead as far as the mind goes
Fear that comes from my head
Lives in the mirror"
I can see it with eyes closed
Shadows that look like blood
Dead as far as the mind goes
Fear that comes from my head
Lives in the mirror"
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- Chloe Smith
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I'm extremely surprised to see that this thread is still alive.
Nevertheless, I'm extremely excited about the Shattered Memories reincarnation of Lisa. Hopefully, Team Silent can make up for what they made Lisa look like in Origins.
Nevertheless, I'm extremely excited about the Shattered Memories reincarnation of Lisa. Hopefully, Team Silent can make up for what they made Lisa look like in Origins.
[size=75][i]You’re a rock star everybody wants you, Player… who can really blame you?[/i][/size]
You do realise that it's Climax doing Shattered Memories, right? The same people who made 0rigins... the same people who made Lisa ugly... etc. I know, I'm upset about it too.Chloe Smith wrote:
Nevertheless, I'm extremely excited about the Shattered Memories reincarnation of Lisa. Hopefully, Team Silent can make up for what they made Lisa look like in Origins.
I have a Youtube account where I sometimes post SH related videos. www.youtube.com/user/severeth
http://www.last.fm/user/Severeth
http://www.last.fm/user/Severeth