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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Why did Harry wake up in different places?

Missing since: 22 Mar 2009
Notes left: 3
Hello everyone.

I have been searching the forum for two days but i cannot find an answer to my question.

Well. The question is clear. However i want to add some explanation.

1) Firstly Harry was looking for Cheryl. Then he passed to otherworld and he woke up in the cafe in the foggy dimension.

2) We went to hospital and found Lisa in otherworld. Then Harry fainted. When he woke up he was in the foggy dimension. We went Antique Shop. Then he woked up in the hospital, in otherworld.

3) After we talked to Lisa we woke up in Antique Shop in otherworld.

4) Then in the Amusement Park, Harry fainted again and he woke up in the hospital.

Note in edit: If you think some part(s) of this is(are) spoiler i will change it.

What made these? Were the events in Antique Shop and Amusement Park dreams? If they were real and he was transported to another area why did not Lisa noticed he went. She was saying you had a bad dream.

Another obligation is that: May be he was transported while Lisa was looking for the basement.

Then i thought that. When Harry changed the dimension the body in the other dimension is sleeping in the same place. However that cannot be right. Because Cybill did not find Harry sleeping in the Antique shop.

I don't know if i managed to tell what i wanted. However if you understand please help me.

Note in the edit: If you think some part of this is spoiler i can change it.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11383
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Alessa is basically warping him around the two worlds as she sees fit. When he shifts to another world, he disappears from the other one. Falling unconscious and waking up is only to suit the dream metaphor.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 22 Mar 2009
Notes left: 3
Then why did not Lisa notice he went. As i guess when Harry went she was looking for basement.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11383
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Alessa controls Lisa. She could just alter her memories to make her think Harry was just sleeping right there.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 22 Mar 2009
Notes left: 3
Now, i totally got it. Thanks.


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Gravedigger
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Missing since: 06 Jan 2004
Notes left: 543
Last seen at: Finland
The Gods are just playing around with Harry :P

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Mantorok Narokath Redgormor


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 15 Jul 2003
Notes left: 2368
White_Storm, you started off with the right idea to begin with. There's actually two layers of "unreality" in Silent Hill. The unreality of Silent Hill and the dream world. Both are visually identical and we were meant to guess where we really are.

White_Storm wrote:
1) Firstly Harry was looking for Cheryl. Then he passed to otherworld and he woke up in the cafe in the foggy dimension.

The first part where Harry looks for Cheryl after waking up in the jeep is entirely a dream. It is not the unreality of Silent Hill. It has been suggested that Cybil brought Harry to the cafe.

But that's as far as the developers will tell you up front. The rest of the game is up to the players' interpretation and it even depends on how you play the game.

Quote:
2) We went to hospital and found Lisa in otherworld. Then Harry fainted. When he woke up he was in the foggy dimension.

Yes, Harry simply shifted out into the foggy dimension leaving Lisa behind.

Quote:
We went Antique Shop. Then he woked up in the hospital, in otherworld.

This part where Harry wakes up in the hospital is a dream, in my opinion. Not before he shifted into the otherworld, however, as Cybil doesn't find his body like you said.

You may have noticed that the scene with Lisa is visually unclear...like you're in a sauna or something. I believe that Harry wanted to think that he never left the hospital. Coincidentally, he was talking about Lisa to Cybil before he decided to go into the "other church." Here, Harry is actually talking to a "dream" Lisa.

As far as the real Lisa is concerned, Harry disappeared in front of her after he got that headache which is why she is so happy to see him after he gets to the hospital after waking up from Green Lion.

Quote:
3) After we talked to Lisa we woke up in Antique Shop in otherworld.

Harry woke up. Notice that he starts questioning himself what is real or what is not here.

Quote:
4) Then in the Amusement Park, Harry fainted again and he woke up in the hospital.

This part is different because we are now dealing with a fractured dimension called Nowhere. It may or may not be a dream.

One thing to note, however, is that just because a scene can be attributed as Harry's dream, it does not mean that the contents are entirely his. Alessa's nightmare has a way of intruding into Harry's dream, so Harry is not the sole owner of his dream.

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The contents of this post may only be used within the boundaries of www.silenthillforum.com.
Any usage outside of the aforementioned forum is strictly prohibited.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: Why did Harry wake up in different places?

Missing since: 23 Jun 2011
Notes left: 161
Last seen at: Silent Hill
Thanks for clearing that up Burning Man. I couldn't really understand it either.

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"The Fear of Blood tends to create fear for the flesh."
-Silent Hill


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 28 Dec 2010
Notes left: 136
AuraTwilight wrote:
Alessa controls Lisa. She could just alter her memories to make her think Harry was just sleeping right there.

Yeah the same thing happened to Tavis in SHO

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My Bestsellers Clerk
 Post subject: Re: Why did Harry wake up in different places?
     
         
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Missing since: 08 Aug 2010
Notes left: 362
There's no "dimensions" in Silent Hill. Harry simply was pulled into Alessa's dream. Harry states in the game, "Rather than shifting from Reality to a Nightmare, this is more like Reality BECOMING a Nightmare." There's no other dimensions. It's only reality. The Otherworld is invading reality. Harry doesn't shift from one world to the next.

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"What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof." ~ Christopher Hitchens R.I.P.


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Moderator
 Post subject: Re: Why did Harry wake up in different places?
     
         
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Missing since: 15 Apr 2004
Notes left: 11052
Last seen at: In the anals of forum history
Harry is guessing that's what is happening based on his own observations. He has no idea whether or not he's right and lacks any means to test it.

To use his uneducated guess as the basis for your opinion is foolish.

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My Bestsellers Clerk
 Post subject: Re: Why did Harry wake up in different places?
     
         
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Missing since: 08 Aug 2010
Notes left: 362
Ryantology wrote:
Harry is guessing that's what is happening based on his own observations. He has no idea whether or not he's right and lacks any means to test it.

To use his uneducated guess as the basis for your opinion is foolish.


Oh I don't doubt that he's guessing. And it's not opinion. Opinions don't matter. I like proof. I don't like assertions that have no basis. I tell what I know and have no interest in expressing opinions for something that can easily be explained through facts. That is what I'm doing.

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"What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof." ~ Christopher Hitchens R.I.P.


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Moderator
 Post subject: Re: Why did Harry wake up in different places?
     
         
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Missing since: 15 Apr 2004
Notes left: 11052
Last seen at: In the anals of forum history
Then, there must be more to it than what Harry has to say, because Harry's uneducated guesses are proof of nothing.

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My Bestsellers Clerk
 Post subject: Re: Why did Harry wake up in different places?
     
         
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Missing since: 08 Aug 2010
Notes left: 362
Ryantology wrote:
Then, there must be more to it than what Harry has to say, because Harry's uneducated guesses are proof of nothing.


I never said his guesses are proof. It's what is revealed in the game by happenings and documents that is proof. There are times when Harry is right, and when he's wrong. There are things that the player knows that he doesn't. And vice versa.

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"What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof." ~ Christopher Hitchens R.I.P.


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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Why did Harry wake up in different places?
     
         
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Missing since: 09 Jun 2010
Notes left: 494
Yeah, but the backbone of the "no multiple dimensions" theory is split into 2 parts. First off, they make the concept sound more ridiculous than it actually is. They pretend that there are millions of other dimensions when in fact there are only 2 or 3. Secondly, they use Harry's CONJECTURE as evidence. Which once again-is proof of nothing. There are no in-game or out of game documents to support that nonsense.

Furthermore, they also use a Deen Koontz adaptation tas "evidence" for their theory. That's like using a Batman comic to try and pretend the entirety of the Law And Order universe doesn't exist. Do you understand how utterly insane that is?


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Why did Harry wake up in different places?
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11383
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
They also seriously tried to argue that, no, one person isn't disappearing into an other world, EVERYONE ELSE in Silent Hill is disappearing and not going ANYWHERE.


And not a damn single person in the world seems to notice thousands of people vanishing for several hours with no recollection of what happened.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Why did Harry wake up in different places?
     
         
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Missing since: 09 Jun 2010
Notes left: 494
...Or how the Koshiki Guidebook states that several young girls were kidnapped and ultimately ended up being killed because of the ritual. Yet they also argue that it wasn't the ritual itself-but a boiler explosion that caused the fire.

From the Silent Hill Koshiki Guidebook;
Quote:
Q: What were Dahlia's intentions?

A: To realize the long-cherished wish of the religious cult to which she belongs.
The technique to impregnate the womb of a human mother with the malevolent god had been carried out many times in order to achieve that end, but it had always failed. Among the mysterious disappearances that took place in town, there are cases in which young girls were abducted by the cult as prospective surrogate mothers (although most of them were simply young people who grew tired of the countryside and left for the city).


They also try to twist this quote around as well;
Quote:
The ritual process involved a great deal of fire, which consequently escalated into a conflagration.


Now why would these girls die (or "mysteriously dissappear") of a concequence of the ritual continually being botched if they weren't actually being burned? Immolation surely can't be THAT hard to concieve given the subject matter of the game. A lot of real life cults have taken measures such as that, or similarly ritually sacrificing its members to achieve some ends. The game nor accompanying reference material makes no mention of any entheogenic substance being used during the ritual (like say PTV). You'd think that something THAT important wouldn't fall through the cracks. Especially since it's been mentioned that the cult used PTV in the first place to drug tourists amd indoctinate them into The Order...


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Moderator
 Post subject: Re: Why did Harry wake up in different places?
     
         
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Missing since: 15 Apr 2004
Notes left: 11052
Last seen at: In the anals of forum history
Uyrikeustek wrote:
Ryantology wrote:
Then, there must be more to it than what Harry has to say, because Harry's uneducated guesses are proof of nothing.


I never said his guesses are proof. It's what is revealed in the game by happenings and documents that is proof. There are times when Harry is right, and when he's wrong. There are things that the player knows that he doesn't. And vice versa.


There is nothing in Silent Hills 1-3 which ever even address the matter. It is left completely ambiguous.

Silent Hill 4 proves, conclusively, that there are multiple dimensions at work. When Henry crawls into the hole and ends up in Apartment World, it is very obviously not the same place he can see out of his window, and he has the ability to go back and forth at will to see the changes.

The "otherworld is taking over reality" idea rests on terrible foundations. First, it is based on a guess made by a character who knows nothing of what is going on. Second, it insists that the otherworld is either sentient, or controlled by some sentience, and there is no basis whatsoever for this. Third, it manifests in ridiculously meticulous ways, overriding just enough reality that it can be as small as a few feet in the middle of a populated area and nobody else notices, and then reverts whenever it wants, for whatever inexplicable reason it wants. Fourth, and worst, is that it is vastly more complicated than the multiple dimension theory, which states only that there exists some means for special people to access a reality which is malleable and can manifest by way of human mental energy. This is all complete fact, and nothing more than this is necessary. It explains everything perfectly.

The "reality takeover" theory is not taken seriously for a very obvious reason: it isn't needed. It is like trying to assert that gravity is actually sentient beings tying invisible strings to every object on the face of the earth and pulling it toward the center.

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Why did Harry wake up in different places?

Missing since: 16 Feb 2004
Notes left: 71
I prefer to think of SH games as something similar to Alice in Wonderland that just follows the irrationality of dreams and doesnt have to make sense...when u try to make sense of it, it becomes invariably silly...


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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Why did Harry wake up in different places?
     
         
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Missing since: 05 Aug 2010
Notes left: 566
Last seen at: Nathan Ave.
Moura wrote:
when u try to make sense of it, it becomes invariably silly...

If you're pointing out the 'omnipotent possibility bcs it's SH' excuse, then this whole thread would most likely not exist and nor would the fandom (at least not in similiar layers of severity). And it doesn't work that way, at all.

Although the universe of Silent Hill is usually conceived as an abstract art, it doesn't negate the fundamental necessity of a schematic and scientific analysis. This is the reason of why this place is considered as one of the most mature and serious forums. Instead of threads full of emoticons and LOL-s, we have explanations and meaningful, backed up theories to cover the invariable silliness. It's not silly trying to give sense to an abstract matter, and yes, there is an objective and reasonable answer to why Harry is waking up in different places. I mean, otherwise, Dahlia would be a robot. I hope I'm making some sense here ..

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