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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Can someone please explain?
     
         
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Missing since: 09 Jun 2010
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^ Exactly. I mean, what was with Kauffman seemingly not reacting at all to all the fog and what not in Origins, but then freaking the fuck out about it 7 years later. (Rhetorical question of course)


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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: Can someone please explain?

Missing since: 20 Jun 2010
Notes left: 1626
Trauma_ wrote:
^ Exactly. I mean, what was with Kauffman seemingly not reacting at all to all the fog and what not in Origins, but then freaking the fuck out about it 7 years later

Someone suggested that Kaufmann, Lisa, and Dahlia are in the real world in Origins and therefore don't notice anything strange, but occasionally can be seen by and interact with Travis. Sure, it's different to what happens in SH1 where everyone is in the otherworld, but it explains why he/they don't notice anything strange until SH1. I wouldn't have a clue as to why, what, or how they can be seen in the Origins Otherworld... Perhaps in Origins Alessa's power is only powerful enough to make them temporally available to Travis, then, after being given a boost in power by the Flauros, then rejoined with Cheryl, she has enough power to pull them into her otherworld in SH1.


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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Can someone please explain?
     
         
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Missing since: 09 Jun 2010
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Sorry, I edited it to say it was a rhetorical question, I guess you responded at the same time, but that makes a bit of sense. But it's silly how they made Alessa this evil malicious being in Origins anyways.


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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: Can someone please explain?

Missing since: 20 Jun 2010
Notes left: 1626
Trauma_ wrote:
Sorry, I edited it to say it was a rhetorical question, I guess you responded at the same time, but that makes a bit of sense. But it's silly how they made Alessa this evil malicious being in Origins anyways.

Yep, you edited while I answered. :) Alessa does seem a little more...shady...in Origins than SH1, but I don't think she's evil, or that she was supposed to be portrayed as evil. She was, after all, recently burned by her own mother. I think it's understandable that she wouldn't really be in a happy mood so soon after that. But at the same time she somehow knows/thinks she needs Travis' help.


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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Can someone please explain?
     
         
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Missing since: 09 Jun 2010
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That's an interesting thought, I just don't see any evidence for that. It seems like kind of a lazy way to fill on a plot hole. Like using play-doh, instead of wood filler.

I can see what you would mean by not being too happy about being burned by her own mother, but was the second ritual really neccesary anyways? Like really.


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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: Can someone please explain?

Missing since: 20 Jun 2010
Notes left: 1626
Trauma_ wrote:
That's an interesting thought, I just don't see any evidence for that. It seems like kind of a lazy way to fill on a plot hole. Like using play-doh, instead of wood filler.

I can see what you would mean by not being too happy about being burned by her own mother, but was the second ritual really neccesary anyways? Like really.

There's no evidence to suggest that she's evil either. Besides, it's more realistic to assume she's in shock/upset about what happened than to say she was evil and malicious. Yeah, there are some plot holes in Origins, but I honestly don't think they would've changed her character so drastically to make her nothing more than a cliche supernatural bad guy. Regardless of her powers she's still just a little girl, and as such she'd be pretty damned upset about being betrayed by the very person she loves (it's obvious from the No-where flashbacks in SH1 that Alessa loved her mum). But at the same time she wants to stop the rituals from taking place, hence needing Travis to find the Flauros.
As for the second ritual, do you mean the one at the end of Origins? If so, then they're trying to finish what Dahlia started in her own home. The first ritual probably would've worked if Travis hadn't interrupted.

Anyway, I think we've gone way off topic. Sorry about that.


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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Can someone please explain?
     
         
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Missing since: 09 Jun 2010
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Well if that's correct, thanks for clearing that up anyways.


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Moderator
 Post subject: Re: Can someone please explain?
     
         
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Missing since: 15 Apr 2004
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Soulless-Shadow wrote:
Trauma_ wrote:
^ Exactly. I mean, what was with Kauffman seemingly not reacting at all to all the fog and what not in Origins, but then freaking the fuck out about it 7 years later

Someone suggested that Kaufmann, Lisa, and Dahlia are in the real world in Origins and therefore don't notice anything strange, but occasionally can be seen by and interact with Travis. Sure, it's different to what happens in SH1 where everyone is in the otherworld, but it explains why he/they don't notice anything strange until SH1. I wouldn't have a clue as to why, what, or how they can be seen in the Origins Otherworld... Perhaps in Origins Alessa's power is only powerful enough to make them temporally available to Travis, then, after being given a boost in power by the Flauros, then rejoined with Cheryl, she has enough power to pull them into her otherworld in SH1.


Or, maybe Kaufmann did notice strange events in Origins and only pretended to be surprised by them when Harry first made his acquaintance. After all, the last thing he would want Harry doing is asking questions, and Harry might do so if Kaufmann appeared to take in stride everything that was going on around them.

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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Can someone please explain?
     
         
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Missing since: 09 Jun 2010
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Now I'm going to say something that could be percieved as incredibly "stupid", so keep your mouth shut for once, but you'd be singing a very different tune if it weren't for Origins...


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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: Can someone please explain?

Missing since: 20 Jun 2010
Notes left: 1626
alone in the town wrote:
Soulless-Shadow wrote:
Trauma_ wrote:
^ Exactly. I mean, what was with Kauffman seemingly not reacting at all to all the fog and what not in Origins, but then freaking the fuck out about it 7 years later

Someone suggested that Kaufmann, Lisa, and Dahlia are in the real world in Origins and therefore don't notice anything strange, but occasionally can be seen by and interact with Travis. Sure, it's different to what happens in SH1 where everyone is in the otherworld, but it explains why he/they don't notice anything strange until SH1. I wouldn't have a clue as to why, what, or how they can be seen in the Origins Otherworld... Perhaps in Origins Alessa's power is only powerful enough to make them temporally available to Travis, then, after being given a boost in power by the Flauros, then rejoined with Cheryl, she has enough power to pull them into her otherworld in SH1.


Or, maybe Kaufmann did notice strange events in Origins and only pretended to be surprised by them when Harry first made his acquaintance. After all, the last thing he would want Harry doing is asking questions, and Harry might do so if Kaufmann appeared to take in stride everything that was going on around them.

If so then it's taken Kaufmann an awfully long time to decide he's not happy with the way things are going and attempt to stop Dahlia. It can't have taken him seven years to get to the motel to get the aglaophotis. And time in the otherworld can't flow too differently than that of the real world, otherwise Lisa wouldn't have aged.

Trauma_ wrote:
Now I'm going to say something that could be percieved as incredibly "stupid", so keep your mouth shut for once, but you'd be singing a very different tune if it weren't for Origins...

He's just presenting other possibilities. Though it's true Origins has screwed around with things...


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Woodside Apartments Janitor
 Post subject: Re: Can someone please explain?
     
         
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Missing since: 30 Mar 2009
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Last seen at: North of The Wall
The reason that he's not happy with the way things are going by sh1 is because he realises that actually he's not going to get to use any of Alessa's power in the way that he originally believed he would, he doesn't want to destroy our world and make one anew, he's rather fond of this one.

Furthermore, it may not have taken him seven years to realise this, it may just be that the only time he will be able to use the aglaophotis is after Alessa is made whole again.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Can someone please explain?
     
         
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Missing since: 10 May 2006
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^That sounds pretty damn reasonable to me.

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Moderator
 Post subject: Re: Can someone please explain?
     
         
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Missing since: 15 Apr 2004
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Last seen at: In the anals of forum history
Quote:
Furthermore, it may not have taken him seven years to realise this, it may just be that the only time he will be able to use the aglaophotis is after Alessa is made whole again.


Precisely. What could he do before the events of the first game? Alessa had split her soul, which may very well have rendered the aglaophotis useless.

I have not played enough of Origins to get a whole grasp on how Dr. Kaufmann handled the Otherworld at that time, if at all. That being said, one can observe him in the first game alone and come away with the impression that this isn't strictly uncharted territory for the man. We can't trust his outward reactions upon meeting him, because we are made quite aware that the man is a true scum fuck of a human being, and certainly, at no point does he display anything like fear, even with the story he gives. There's certainly no freaking out on his part.

Obviously, there was no Origins when the first game was made, but his character as presented in the latter seems to cleverly prevent the question from having a definitive answer, even taking the prequel into consideration.

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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: Can someone please explain?

Missing since: 20 Jun 2010
Notes left: 1626
stopped_clock wrote:
The reason that he's not happy with the way things are going by sh1 is because he realises that actually he's not going to get to use any of Alessa's power in the way that he originally believed he would, he doesn't want to destroy our world and make one anew, he's rather fond of this one.

I realize that. It is obvious from the dialogue at the end of SH1 that he wasn't happy with the way things had turned out - that he hasn't got his own way. I was merely stating that if he was trapped in the otherworld for the full 7 years it has taken him a very long time to get pissed off about being screwed over.
stopped_clock wrote:
it may just be that the only time he will be able to use the aglaophotis is after Alessa is made whole again.

That's a possibility. But we'll never know, considering he was too late and threw it on the Woman in White, and not Alessa.
alone in the town wrote:
Quote:
Furthermore, it may not have taken him seven years to realise this, it may just be that the only time he will be able to use the aglaophotis is after Alessa is made whole again.


Precisely. What could he do before the events of the first game? Alessa had split her soul, which may very well have rendered the aglaophotis useless.

I have not played enough of Origins to get a whole grasp on how Dr. Kaufmann handled the Otherworld at that time, if at all. That being said, one can observe him in the first game alone and come away with the impression that this isn't strictly uncharted territory for the man. We can't trust his outward reactions upon meeting him, because we are made quite aware that the man is a true scum fuck of a human being, and certainly, at no point does he display anything like fear, even with the story he gives. There's certainly no freaking out on his part.

Obviously, there was no Origins when the first game was made, but his character as presented in the latter seems to cleverly prevent the question from having a definitive answer, even taking the prequel into consideration.

Kaufmann hasn't got many lines in Origins. None of it suggests he sees the otherworld though. In fact, when we first meet him he seems to be acting as though things are normal. Travis asks about Alessa, to which Kaufmann simply replies that they have had no new patients admitted to the hospital in the last day or so. Why would he pretend things were normal if he were in the otherworld? If anything I'd expect him to just ignore Travis, or shoot at him like he shot at Harry, rather than bother lying about Alessa.
As for his dialogue in SH1, I realize he could be lying to Harry about finding himself in the otherworld after taking a nap, but others have found themselves in the otherworld under similar circumstances. Harry found himself in the otherworld after waking after his accident, while Lisa mentions that she "must have been knocked out". I don't think that's a coincidence. Also, Travis finds himself in the otherworld in a similar fashion (real world before passing out, otherworld after waking up).
Another point I want to make, is that Kaufmann has probably been in the otherworld since Harry arrived there too. Not that he found himself there the moment Harry got to the hospital. If Kaufmann has been running around the hospital while Harry was running around town and the school, that's plenty of time for him to figure out what's going on and to calm down (though that is just a personal observation with no actual evidence).


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Can someone please explain?
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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I just assumed Kauffman was a stone cold motherfucker and when he saw a monster for the first time concluded "Oh, Dahlia's doing her bullshit."

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Can someone please explain?
     
         
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2010
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AuraTwilight wrote:
I just assumed Kauffman was a stone cold motherfucker and when he saw a monster for the first time concluded "Oh, Dahlia's doing her bullshit."


So I wasn't the only one.

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