Search FAQ

Login | Register


All times are UTC [ DST ]


It is currently 22 Nov 2017




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 39 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Gyromancy-Divination in the Order
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
...Uh, it's a church, dude.

_________________
BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


Top
   
 

Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Gyromancy-Divination in the Order

Missing since: 30 Sep 2013
Notes left: 10
I'm confused. How did Dahlia start this process of "giving birth" to "God" early? I was under the impression that Dahlia, or someone from the Order summons Harry to Silent Hill because they need Cheryl (the second half of the soul) to complete the ritual that raises Samael. Burnt Alessa senses Cheryl's presence, and Astral Projects herself in front of Harry's Jeep, causing them to crash. Burnt Alessa was trying to prevent Cheryl (the 2nd half of the soul) from entering Silent Hill. So how has Dahlia started this process early if she needs, and doesn't have Cheryl yet? Remember in the basement of the hospital in that "ghost flashback" scene when the doctor/Order member says: "It's too weak... we need the other half of the soul."

It also appears that Dr. Kauffmann knew about Harry's arrival and mission in Silent Hill also. Remember when Harry found the Aglophogous (sp) in the motorcycle gas tank. Kauffmann got rather rude with him and said: "Gimme that!" and then went on to say: " Something"... and take care of business". What he meant by that was, was go find your daughter (The second half of the soul). Kauffmann knew the whole time what Harry's role was...that of delivering the second half of Alessa's soul to the Order.


Top
   
 

Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: Gyromancy-Divination in the Order

Missing since: 20 Jun 2010
Notes left: 1626
^I'm a little rusty on my info, and I haven't doubled checked anything, but here's what I remember. I'm sure someone else will be along sooner or later who will have more information/better knowledge, but here's my two cents anyway.

indianrunner wrote:
I'm confused. How did Dahlia start this process of "giving birth" to "God" early?

I can only assume it was because she used Alessa before she was old enough / powerful enough to be able to handle the strain the ceremony/god would put on her. But then again, if I recall correctly, I think Alessa was expected to take after her mother and become a priestess of the Order rather than birth God. I vaguely recall something about both, but I don't know where I read them...

indianrunner wrote:
I was under the impression that Dahlia, or someone from the Order summons Harry to Silent Hill because they need Cheryl (the second half of the soul) to complete the ritual that raises Samael.

You're correct that the other half of Alessa's soul is needed to complete the birthing process, but Dahlia (who was working on her own) summoned Cheryl, not Harry. Harry was kinda just some excess baggage who could drive a car. Cheryl wanted to go to Silent Hill for a holiday (because she was drawn there as a result of the summoning), and Harry obliged.

indianrunner wrote:
Burnt Alessa senses Cheryl's presence, and Astral Projects herself in front of Harry's Jeep, causing them to crash. Burnt Alessa was trying to prevent Cheryl (the 2nd half of the soul) from entering Silent Hill.

Actually, I think Alessa just wanted to merge with her other half as soon as possible so that she could use her full power to kill herself and the unborn God before it was born. She couldn't die a normal death and was stuck in a stalemate until she was at full power. She took a gamble and merged, knowing that God could be birthed once she was whole again, but also knowing she couldn't do anything at all unless she took that risk.

indianrunner wrote:
So how has Dahlia started this process early if she needs, and doesn't have Cheryl yet? Remember in the basement of the hospital in that "ghost flashback" scene when the doctor/Order member says: "It's too weak... we need the other half of the soul."

That scene has always confused me. I've never really thought about it, but I'm guessing that once the Order found out what Dahlia did, they probably tried to use Alessa anyway, but couldn't (for obvious reasons).

indianrunner wrote:
It also appears that Dr. Kauffmann knew about Harry's arrival and mission in Silent Hill also. Remember when Harry found the Aglophogous (sp) in the motorcycle gas tank. Kauffmann got rather rude with him and said: "Gimme that!" and then went on to say: " Something"... and take care of business". What he meant by that was, was go find your daughter (The second half of the soul). Kauffmann knew the whole time what Harry's role was...that of delivering the second half of Alessa's soul to the Order.

Kauffman knew about Harry because he's working with Dahlia and the Order, though his motives aren't the same. He doesn't want God to be born, though he's happy to work with the Order so long as it benefits him. As for Harry's "role", in the grand scheme of things he had no role other than to be manipulated by Dahlia as needed. Alessa merged with Cheryl at the start of the game, possibly straight after encountering Alessa's astral projection in the opening scene, so Harry's wasn't delivering anything. He was just a pawn.


Top
   
 

Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Gyromancy-Divination in the Order

Missing since: 30 Sep 2013
Notes left: 10
Alessa didn't merge with Cheryl when she astral projected in front of the Jeep. If she had, it would have been the end of the game right there. Cheryl is the second half of the soul that Dahlia, and or, The Order needs to summon "God". If Alessa had merged with Cheryl at the beginning, Dahlia could have immediately started the ceremony. Instead, Burnt Alessa hides Cheryl from Dahlia in the Fog Realm. Dahlia uses Harry as a pawn to find his daughter, and in the mean time serves her own purpose as well. Dahlia hopes Harry can get close enough to Cheryl to lead the Dahlia to where Alessa's hiding her. One problem for Dahlia though. What she tells Harry is the "Mark of Samael" is really the "Seal of Metatron". The Seal of Metatron locks Dahlia and her astral projection out of the areas she's marked. Harry does get close enough to Alessa to use the Flauros, which saps Alessa's powers, then allows Dahlia to catch up with Cheryl, where she proceeds to summon Samael, and does.

As for Harry or Cheryl being summoned, it could have been either or, just like was it with Kauffmann. Was it Alessa, or Dahlia that pulled him into the "Other World"?

All we know about Kauffmann's role with Dahlia was he couldn't trust her. It seems like she went behind at least his back, if not the rest of The Order. He may have gotten the Aglophogus (sp) to kill "God" since Dahlia was looking to be in sole control of it. There is nothing in the game that leads the player to believe Kauffmann doesn't want "God" to be born. You could come away from the story with: Since Kauffmann can't control "God", No One Will! What you stated above, applies to Vincent in Silent Hill 3.


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Gyromancy-Divination in the Order
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
Alessa didn't merge with Cheryl when she astral projected in front of the Jeep. If she had, it would have been the end of the game right there.


Except yes, she did, and no, it wouldn't. Her soul being complete doesn't mean anything if it's not inside her body, where the god-embryo is. That's what Dahlia merges together; the body and soul. And that is why she claims that the astral Alessa running around is 'Cheryl', and has been the entire time.

Quote:
If Alessa had merged with Cheryl at the beginning, Dahlia could have immediately started the ceremony.


Did you forget how Alessa had a barrier keeping Dahlia from doing anything to her, to the point that she needed Harry to intervene using the Flauros? She can't start the ceremony otherwise because Alessa is just too powerful.

Quote:
The Seal of Metatron locks Dahlia and her astral projection out of the areas she's marked. Harry does get close enough to Alessa to use the Flauros, which saps Alessa's powers, then allows Dahlia to catch up with Cheryl, where she proceeds to summon Samael, and does.


1) Dahlia doesn't Astral Project
2) Alessa IS Cheryl. When Dahlia is performing the ceremony, there's only Alessa's soul and Alessa's body. Where the hell is Cheryl, according to you?
3) The God isn't named Samael.

Quote:
As for Harry or Cheryl being summoned, it could have been either or, just like was it with Kauffmann. Was it Alessa, or Dahlia that pulled him into the "Other World"?


It was definitely Alessa. Dahlia doesn't have that sort of power whatsoever.

Quote:
There is nothing in the game that leads the player to believe Kauffmann doesn't want "God" to be born.


Except he tells Dahlia to set things as they were before and this isn't what they agreed on and whatnot. Kauffman is a business-man invested in the real world. Everything he's ever worked for is kind of dependent that a supernatural apocalypse doesn't just erase his whole world. He's not a raving cultist like Dahlia and her crew; he's a drug-dealer who's interested in making a profit unmolested and was primarily interested in using Alessa's power to remove people in his way.

_________________
BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


Top
   
 

Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Gyromancy-Divination in the Order

Missing since: 30 Sep 2013
Notes left: 10
Quote:
Except yes, she did, and no, it wouldn't. Her soul being complete doesn't mean anything if it's not inside her body where the god-embryo is. That's what Dahlia merges together, body and soul. And that is why she claims that the astral Alessa running around is "Cheryl", and has been the entire time.


Ok , for argument sake, lets say that Alessa's astral projection merged with Cheryl's soul in the "Jeep" Crash. Why then does Alessa keep the avatar of her soul that of Cheryl? Harry sure as Hell wouldn't have chased the second half of the soul if Alessa changed Cheryl's image into one of the creatures. Also, if Alessa merged with Cheryl in the Jeep, then why isn't Cheryl's body next to Harry's in the "Bad" ending?

Forgive me, but I'm new to this board and I don't know how to grab and post quotes. The posting here is much more complicated than it need be. I have other follow ups but by the looks of this ... you can't "pull and post" quotes, they have to be retyped?


Top
   
 

Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Gyromancy-Divination in the Order

Missing since: 30 Sep 2013
Notes left: 10
(Con't)
1) "Dahlia doesn't astral project"
So which is it? Are people in the "Fog Realm" either physical manifestations, or astral projections? Or both? It's funny how everyone but the two main players (Alessa and Dahlia) were either sleeping or unconscious when they were brought into the "Fog Realm". Another sign of astral projection is when Dahlia burns up at that end. She just stands there and laughs. And not to mention the "Bad" Ending where Harry regains consciousness before he dies.

2) "Alessa IS Cheryl. Where the hell is Cheryl, according to you?" It's "What" the Hell is Cheryl according to (me). Is Cheryl a "real", physical little girl running around Silent Hill, or just some astral projection of a part of Alessa's soul? The Million Dollar question is how did the physical vessel that is Cheryl come to be... and please to don't tell me it was that lame demon battle with Travis that made Alessa pregnant with a demon... that's laughable.

3) I refer to "God" as Samael. It's a just a habit. I figured that Dahlia lied to Harry so much, that the "God" they were summoning was probably Samael.

Most of what you're saying about Kauffmann is off script, "He was a business man, drug dealer, etc." What is known is that he knew about the burning and had other Order members that were in the medical field tending to burnt Alessa in the basement of the hospital.


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Gyromancy-Divination in the Order
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 26 Dec 2004
Notes left: 2560
Last seen at: Insomnia land, where I am Queen!
Some of the coding here has changed since the last time I was really active here, but I think that if you want to quote someone, you only need to hit the quote button in the lower right corner, or you can select all of it and copy it, then it "full editor" beneath the "quick reply" window, and that should take you to a page that shows all of the tags and how they work, and you can paste it and break it down from there. I don't know for sure because I have only been active again for about a week and I haven't had any use for coding yet. I hope that helps. :)

On topic, I was under the impression that they either merged at the time of the crash, or soon thereafter. I also thought that the visions of Cheryl Harry saw around town and in that phone call were caused by Dahlia, but now I am not so sure.

_________________
Image
Gaming For Honor, playing video games to raise money for Wounded Warriors Project.
The Anime Cauldron is taking a nap.
Peachy's Predictions on Tumblr
Peachy's Predictions. on LiveJournal


Top
   
 

Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Gyromancy-Divination in the Order

Missing since: 30 Sep 2013
Notes left: 10
Thanks for the info. I don't know if I'll be sticking around here. It's only the second day, and I'm not getting a very warm welcome.


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Gyromancy-Divination in the Order
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 26 Dec 2004
Notes left: 2560
Last seen at: Insomnia land, where I am Queen!
The only reason I stopped posting here was for personal issues, because I saw a storm coming that I didn't want to drag everyone else that I like here down into. I came back because I missed people and this place always made me happy. People can seem like they are being mean because you are new, but that is not necessarily the truth. A lot of people are really passionate about their theories and can be defensive, but once you get to know them and they get to know you, you realize it is nothing personal towards you. I hope you will stick around. :)

_________________
Image
Gaming For Honor, playing video games to raise money for Wounded Warriors Project.
The Anime Cauldron is taking a nap.
Peachy's Predictions on Tumblr
Peachy's Predictions. on LiveJournal


Top
   
 

Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: Gyromancy-Divination in the Order

Missing since: 20 Jun 2010
Notes left: 1626
indianrunner wrote:
Alessa didn't merge with Cheryl when she astral projected in front of the Jeep. If she had, it would have been the end of the game right there. Cheryl is the second half of the soul that Dahlia, and or, The Order needs to summon "God". If Alessa had merged with Cheryl at the beginning, Dahlia could have immediately started the ceremony.

The Silent Hill Chronicle website has a translation of the Silent Hill Official Guidebook, which includes a Q&A with staff. According to this Q&A, they merged during the early stages of the game. It's true that no specific moment is mentioned, but considering how quickly everything went to hell, I like to think it was that particular moment in the opening movie. The Q&A also mentions that when Alessa became whole again, she was able to break the spells that Dahlia had used to bind her, hence why she and the Order were unable to birth God then and there.


indianrunner wrote:
Instead, Burnt Alessa hides Cheryl from Dahlia in the Fog Realm. Dahlia uses Harry as a pawn to find his daughter, and in the mean time serves her own purpose as well. Dahlia hopes Harry can get close enough to Cheryl to lead the Dahlia to where Alessa's hiding her.

Alessa never hid anyone in the fog world simply because she and Cheryl had merged at the start of the game, as mentioned above. Harry's purpose wasn't to lead Dahlia to a hidden Cheryl, but to be manipulated however Dahlia needed, which turns out was simply to find the Flauros pieces and get close enough to Alessa to use them.

indianrunner wrote:
One problem for Dahlia though. What she tells Harry is the "Mark of Samael" is really the "Seal of Metatron". The Seal of Metatron locks Dahlia and her astral projection out of the areas she's marked. Harry does get close enough to Alessa to use the Flauros, which saps Alessa's powers, then allows Dahlia to catch up with Cheryl, where she proceeds to summon Samael, and does.

The Seal of Metatron/Mark of Samael/whatever-you-want-to-call-it is used by Alessa simply to destroy herself, the unborn God, and the otherworld, not stop Dahlia from getting to her and Cheryl. It's mentioned in the Q&A that it's a spell of annihilation.

indianrunner wrote:
As for Harry or Cheryl being summoned, it could have been either or, just like was it with Kauffmann. Was it Alessa, or Dahlia that pulled him into the "Other World"?

It was Cheryl who was being summoned. How would they know to summon Harry specifically? It's specifically mentioned in the above linked Q&A that Dahlia was performing a spell on Alessa to draw her other half back. That's why Cheryl wanted to go to Silent Hill. Cheryl was summoned. As for who pulled them into the otherworld, that would be Alessa, not Dahlia. It's her world, though she doesn't have complete control over it. As for whether or not she deliberately pulled people into her world, I don't recall reading anything that specifically mentions this. I think she had some control on who ended up in her world, while others just ended up there purely by accident.

indianrunner wrote:
All we know about Kauffmann's role with Dahlia was he couldn't trust her. It seems like she went behind at least his back, if not the rest of The Order. He may have gotten the Aglophogus (sp) to kill "God" since Dahlia was looking to be in sole control of it. There is nothing in the game that leads the player to believe Kauffmann doesn't want "God" to be born. You could come away from the story with: Since Kauffmann can't control "God", No One Will! What you stated above, applies to Vincent in Silent Hill 3.

The Q&A also states that the partnership between Kauffmann and Dahlia/the Order was centered around drugs and magic. It also states that Kauffmann is only interested in profit, not the "salvation" the Order's God may bring. He's using them for the drugs and the money it brings.

indianrunner wrote:
Ok , for argument sake, lets say that Alessa's astral projection merged with Cheryl's soul in the "Jeep" Crash. Why then does Alessa keep the avatar of her soul that of Cheryl? Harry sure as Hell wouldn't have chased the second half of the soul if Alessa changed Cheryl's image into one of the creatures.

Alessa didn't keep anything of Cheryl. Once they merged at the start of the game, Cheryl was gone for good. The only time we see Cheryl (not counting the opening movie) is the start of the game where she's running away from Harry. The linked Q&A states this part of the game was Harry's dream, which was being encroached upon by Alessa's nightmare (when everything turns dark and the monsters appear). After they merged, there was no separate Cheryl, nor any astral projection of her.

indianrunner wrote:
Also, if Alessa merged with Cheryl in the Jeep, then why isn't Cheryl's body next to Harry's in the "Bad" ending?

Cheryl's not a normal person. She wasn't born like a normal person, so she doesn't have a normal body. Presumably, because of that, once she merged with Alessa her form ceased to exist.

indianrunner wrote:
Forgive me, but I'm new to this board and I don't know how to grab and post quotes. The posting here is much more complicated than it need be. I have other follow ups but by the looks of this ... you can't "pull and post" quotes, they have to be retyped?

If you need to quote, there's a quote button on the bottom right of each post. In order to break up a quote and address specific parts like I do, you just seperate the quotes into paragraphs, and add [ quote ] at the start and [ / quote ] at the end (remove the spaces, of course).

indianrunner wrote:
(Con't)
1) "Dahlia doesn't astral project"
So which is it? Are people in the "Fog Realm" either physical manifestations, or astral projections? Or both? It's funny how everyone but the two main players (Alessa and Dahlia) were either sleeping or unconscious when they were brought into the "Fog Realm". Another sign of astral projection is when Dahlia burns up at that end. She just stands there and laughs.

Alessa is the only one who astral projects. Everyone else is actually there in the Otherworld. I don't recall reading why everyone seems to wake up there, so unless there's something out there I'm unaware of, it's open for debate/personal interpretation. As for why Dahlia laughs when she's been set on fire, she's a religious nut bag (albeit a cunning nut bag who knew how to manipulate people). She was happy that her God was born and that she was the first to "saved". She also probably thought that by that point there was nothing Harry could do to stop her God.

indianrunner wrote:
And not to mention the "Bad" Ending where Harry regains consciousness before he dies.

Harry doesn't regain consciousness in the Bad ending. He just dies. It's suggested in the Silent Hill Chronicle website that in this ending the events of the game may have been a delusion, though as we know with SH3 this is not canon.

indianrunner wrote:
2) "Alessa IS Cheryl. Where the hell is Cheryl, according to you?" It's "What" the Hell is Cheryl according to (me). Is Cheryl a "real", physical little girl running around Silent Hill, or just some astral projection of a part of Alessa's soul? The Million Dollar question is how did the physical vessel that is Cheryl come to be... and please to don't tell me it was that lame demon battle with Travis that made Alessa pregnant with a demon... that's laughable.

Regardless of whether or not you want to consider Origins canon, it doesn't change the fact that Cheryl was created through supernatural means, and doesn't really have a body like you and me. The demon at the end of Origins also didn't make Alessa pregnant. It merely gave her the power to create a new form and put half her soul into it.

indianrunner wrote:
3) I refer to "God" as Samael. It's a just a habit. I figured that Dahlia lied to Harry so much, that the "God" they were summoning was probably Samael.

You can refer to the God as whatever you want, just be prepared for people to point out that it's not actually called Samael and that Dahlia was lying.

indianrunner wrote:
Most of what you're saying about Kauffmann is off script, "He was a business man, drug dealer, etc." What is known is that he knew about the burning and had other Order members that were in the medical field tending to burnt Alessa in the basement of the hospital.

As previously stated, there's plenty about this in the linked Q&A. Aura Twilight is right though. Kauffmann is a businessman and drug dealer. He was getting the raw materials (the white claudia) from the Order to make PTV, which he then sold to tourists. He was interested in nothing more than money, and used the Order as much as they used him.

indianrunner wrote:
Thanks for the info. I don't know if I'll be sticking around here. It's only the second day, and I'm not getting a very warm welcome.

Nobody is deliberately trying to be rude. Some members are just a little standoffish and jaded because they've had to answer the same questions from new members countless times. Don't take it personally as it's not actually anything against you.


Top
   
 

Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Gyromancy-Divination in the Order

Missing since: 30 Sep 2013
Notes left: 10
Soulless Shadow, Nobody was really being rude on this thread. Well, a little, but it comes with the territory when debating S.H. theories. It's what was said to me over on the S.H. 2 page that I took offense to. One more question before I leave. Remember when I brought up the "Ghost Flashback" in the hospital basement in my earlier post? In it a Dr./Order member examines Burnt Alessa's body and says something along the lines of "She's not strong enough, she's missing the second half of the soul." Now if Burnt Alessa merged with Cheryl during the Jeep accident, don't you think that Dahlia would be able to tell (just like the Dr,/Order member did)
that Burnt Alessa's body now contained the second half of the soul?

Anyways, Thanks, it's been interesting.

Indian Runner


Top
   
 

Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: Gyromancy-Divination in the Order

Missing since: 20 Jun 2010
Notes left: 1626
indianrunner wrote:
Soulless Shadow, Nobody was really being rude on this thread. Well, a little, but it comes with the territory when debating S.H. theories. It's what was said to me over on the S.H. 2 page that I took offense to.

I was talking about the forum in general, not just this thread. Unfortunately that's just the way some members can be. Like I said, don't take it personally. Though if things are really bad you can PM a mod. They don't usually post much, but they're still around and are generally very friendly. I think they have green usernames.

indianrunner wrote:
One more question before I leave. Remember when I brought up the "Ghost Flashback" in the hospital basement in my earlier post? In it a Dr./Order member examines Burnt Alessa's body and says something along the lines of "She's not strong enough, she's missing the second half of the soul." Now if Burnt Alessa merged with Cheryl during the Jeep accident, don't you think that Dahlia would be able to tell (just like the Dr,/Order member did)
that Burnt Alessa's body now contained the second half of the soul?

Have you read the link I supplied? It stated Alessa was able to break the spells binding her as soon as she was whole, before Dahlia could do anything. This information has come from the official guidebook, so it's canon.

indianrunner wrote:
Anyways, Thanks, it's been interesting.

Indian Runner

I'm not really sure what's been said to you, but I guess you've made up your mind. It's a shame that you're leaving. This place could use some new members. Bye. *waves*


Top
   
 

Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject: Re: Gyromancy-Divination in the Order
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 12 Oct 2010
Notes left: 1446
Last seen at: Chicago
Sorry about the people who were rude to you... hope you'll consider sticking around anyway. You should check out the Silent Hill Chronicle website that was linked above, it contains a lot of information from the development team of the game that will clear up some of your questions. Although some things are just left to your imagination.

To answer your last question... I'm sure Dahlia is probably aware the souls are rejoined, but is not able to do anything about it because Alessa is too powerful to control at that point. That's why she gives Harry the Flauros and tells him that ellaborate lie about "The Mark of Samael," to use him to get to Alessa.

_________________
www.flipsidecomics.com


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Gyromancy-Divination in the Order
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Indianrunner wrote:
Ok , for argument sake, lets say that Alessa's astral projection merged with Cheryl's soul in the "Jeep" Crash. Why then does Alessa keep the avatar of her soul that of Cheryl? Harry sure as Hell wouldn't have chased the second half of the soul if Alessa changed Cheryl's image into one of the creatures. Also, if Alessa merged with Cheryl in the Jeep, then why isn't Cheryl's body next to Harry's in the "Bad" ending?

Forgive me, but I'm new to this board and I don't know how to grab and post quotes. The posting here is much more complicated than it need be. I have other follow ups but by the looks of this ... you can't "pull and post" quotes, they have to be retyped?


Uh...? I just copy-paste parts into the quote tags. Works fine for me.

Anyway, Alessa primarily takes on her own 14-year-old form for most of the game. The only time I recall Harry seeing Cheryl is at the absolute beginning of the game, which was technically a dream sequence.

Quote:
1) "Dahlia doesn't astral project"
So which is it? Are people in the "Fog Realm" either physical manifestations, or astral projections? Or both? It's funny how everyone but the two main players (Alessa and Dahlia) were either sleeping or unconscious when they were brought into the "Fog Realm". Another sign of astral projection is when Dahlia burns up at that end. She just stands there and laughs. And not to mention the "Bad" Ending where Harry regains consciousness before he dies.


The Otherworld and the Fog Realm are physical locations. Entering them makes you physically vanish from the real world. People entered while they were unconscious for symbolism purposes; the world is, in a way, Alessa's dream-world.

Dahlia stood and laughed while she burned because she desired death.

The bad ending isn't indicative of anything. In the endings SH3 carries off from, he physically enters the real world through a portal and looks up at the sky.

Quote:
2) "Alessa IS Cheryl. Where the hell is Cheryl, according to you?" It's "What" the Hell is Cheryl according to (me). Is Cheryl a "real", physical little girl running around Silent Hill, or just some astral projection of a part of Alessa's soul? The Million Dollar question is how did the physical vessel that is Cheryl come to be... and please to don't tell me it was that lame demon battle with Travis that made Alessa pregnant with a demon... that's laughable.


Cheryl was real enough; if she didn't have a physical body, Harry would've noticed after spending 7 years with her.

Alessa is such a powerful psychic that she can split off a portion of her own soul and literally incarnate it in a new, infant body.

Quote:
Most of what you're saying about Kauffmann is off script, "He was a business man, drug dealer, etc." What is known is that he knew about the burning and had other Order members that were in the medical field tending to burnt Alessa in the basement of the hospital.


Kauffman was involved in the Order's business for profit and monetary gain, not anything religious. He was in charge of their drug ring and was interested in using Alessa's telekinetic killing powers for personal gain, and it's very heavily implied he had no idea what birthing the God actually meant, other than "We'll have a hell of a lot more power."

This is supported by the fact that his use of Aglaophotis clearly had a STRONGLY different effect than what he expected, and the fact that he expected the army to be able to swoop in and handle things. He has no idea what he was dealing with.

PeachySakura24 wrote:
On topic, I was under the impression that they either merged at the time of the crash, or soon thereafter. I also thought that the visions of Cheryl Harry saw around town and in that phone call were caused by Dahlia, but now I am not so sure.


I would wager it was Cheryl's subconscious leaking through; that while she hasn't as much influence as Alessa, she's trying to have her daddy come save her, which is probably why Harry is the only human who can enter the darker world before the climax.

Indianrunner wrote:
One more question before I leave. Remember when I brought up the "Ghost Flashback" in the hospital basement in my earlier post? In it a Dr./Order member examines Burnt Alessa's body and says something along the lines of "She's not strong enough, she's missing the second half of the soul." Now if Burnt Alessa merged with Cheryl during the Jeep accident, don't you think that Dahlia would be able to tell (just like the Dr,/Order member did)
that Burnt Alessa's body now contained the second half of the soul?


This flashback took place before the jeep incident; specifically, it took place 7 years ago, when Alessa's soul first divided. Dahlia then proceeded to cast a spell to make Cheryl feel Alessa's pain, over the years causing her to want to go to Silent Hill for reasons she didn't consciously understand.

Even if the souls rejoined, this united soul did not enter her body until the absolute end of the game, at the final boss fight.

_________________
BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


Last edited by AuraTwilight on 03 Jan 2014, edited 2 times in total.

Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Gyromancy-Divination in the Order
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 26 Dec 2004
Notes left: 2560
Last seen at: Insomnia land, where I am Queen!
How did Cheryl deal with the pain she felt or the draw or whatever for 7 years? I know they did that spell pretty much immediately after Alessa split the soul in the first place, so do you think Cheryl was sickly as a child? Also, and I can be remembering things wrong on this point because my memory is not what it used to be, but didn't they say that Harry and his wife had brought Cheryl to Silent Hill on a family vacation once? If I am wrong about that, I apologize, but if that did happen, why didn't she reuinite with Alessa then, or was Alessa not ready for her then? Just some random thoughts that are floating in my head, so I figured I may as well get them cleared up.
I do hope you stay, indianrunner. There are now at least 3 of us that want you to. It is always nice to see a fresh perspective. :)

_________________
Image
Gaming For Honor, playing video games to raise money for Wounded Warriors Project.
The Anime Cauldron is taking a nap.
Peachy's Predictions on Tumblr
Peachy's Predictions. on LiveJournal


Top
   
 

SHH Cult Subscriber
SHH Cult Subscriber
 Post subject: Re: Gyromancy-Divination in the Order
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 03 Jan 2005
Notes left: 4656
Last seen at: Colorado
PeachySakura24 wrote:
I can be remembering things wrong on this point because my memory is not what it used to be, but didn't they say that Harry and his wife had brought Cheryl to Silent Hill on a family vacation once?
Hmm, not that I remember... it is said that Harry and Cheryl like to take late vacations (after tourist season) and that this time they chose Silent Hill. I don't remember anything about them having been there before.

_________________
Hunting the abyss lord... only one will stay alive!
Image


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Gyromancy-Divination in the Order
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
How did Cheryl deal with the pain she felt or the draw or whatever for 7 years? I know they did that spell pretty much immediately after Alessa split the soul in the first place, so do you think Cheryl was sickly as a child?


I think such a thing would've come up if this were the case. It seems Cheryl didn't really suffer in any way, but had this subconscious knowledge that someone was in pain, and that she could do something about it, but consciously just felt "I want to go there."

Quote:
Also, and I can be remembering things wrong on this point because my memory is not what it used to be, but didn't they say that Harry and his wife had brought Cheryl to Silent Hill on a family vacation once?


They never went to Silent Hill before.

_________________
BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


Last edited by AuraTwilight on 04 Jan 2014, edited 1 time in total.

Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Gyromancy-Divination in the Order
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 26 Dec 2004
Notes left: 2560
Last seen at: Insomnia land, where I am Queen!
Fair enough. I don't know why I thought that they took a family vacation to Silent Hill before. Thanks, guys. :)

Edited because I finally figured out where I got the idea that Harry and Cheryl had been to Silent Hill before! It is on the back of the game case!

[quote=Silent Hill game case]Harry Mason and his daughter Cheryl are driving to their favorite vacation spot. Late that night, a figure suddenly appears from out of the darkness. Harry turns the wheel in panic, and the car careens off the road, knocking Harry unconscious. Awakening sometime later, he realizes that Cheryl is missing. Stumbling out of the wreckage, he heads towards the small town of Silent Hill.[/quote]

Since no other source, to the best of my knowledge, mentions that Silent Hill was their favorite vacation spot, I will assume it wasn't. It just feels so good to finally know where I got the thought in the first place!

_________________
Image
Gaming For Honor, playing video games to raise money for Wounded Warriors Project.
The Anime Cauldron is taking a nap.
Peachy's Predictions on Tumblr
Peachy's Predictions. on LiveJournal


Top
   
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 39 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: