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The End
Good+ 40%  40%  [ 31 ]
Good 32%  32%  [ 25 ]
Bad+ 6%  6%  [ 5 ]
Bad 15%  15%  [ 12 ]
UFO 6%  6%  [ 5 ]
Shutting the Game off before I finish it. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 78
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 Post subject: Re: Which ending do you prefer?
     
         
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Missing since: 08 Aug 2010
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I like Good+ and Bad+. Bad+ because Cybil slapping Harry is hilarious. Also, I like Good+ because Cybil and Harry leave together and all is well. When my boyfriend and I played Silent Hill 1, we got the Bad ending and that really sucked. He was so mad because he likes Harry.

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Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: Which ending do you prefer?
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Apr 2010
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Guys. The UFO ending. I mean, c'mon.

No, the bad ending is my favorite, despite the fact that Silent Hill 3's canon tossed it out the window. Because then it supports the notion that, on your "Next Fear" playthroughs, Harry died and is trapped in an infinite loop (he always re-awakens at the beginning of the game, but without the context of the original intro when he stumbles into Silent Hill and gets attacked, what exactly is he waking up from?) And he is forced to re-experience the events of Silent Hill.

The Good+ ending is a nice one to get just because it wraps up everything in a neat little package.

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Missing since: 15 Apr 2004
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Kenji wrote:
Is this theory featured in the Quick Links? I've never seen it before.


viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18477

It's somewhere in the middle pages.

I should point out that while it's the best counter-theory against Good, that's relative to almost every other counter-theory suffering from multiple critical logic deficiencies. This one suffers from only two critical logic deficiencies, and if the game never had a sequel, one would not exist.

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Just Passing Through
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UFO ending is canon. <:| It always is. You can't tell me otherwise.


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Historical Society Historian
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alone in the town wrote:
http://www.silenthillforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18477

It's somewhere in the middle pages.

I should point out that while it's the best counter-theory against Good, that's relative to almost every other counter-theory suffering from multiple critical logic deficiencies. This one suffers from only two critical logic deficiencies, and if the game never had a sequel, one would not exist.

Thanks, I found it.

Now, I'd like to add to what Burning Man was saying. This isn't to say that I think GOOD+ is the ending to Silent Hill, because I'm of the opinion that GOOD is the orthodox ending that leads to Silent Hill 3, but I'd like to explore the thought process.

I don't know if you've played Siren, but that game indeed functions on implicit time loops. The concept of time travel is only hinted at: it's never outright spoken of until Siren 2. However, time loops are the only reasonable explanation for a lot of what happens. I'll give an example. I'll try not to spoil specific plot points, but since I am trying to explain the mechanics behind Siren's story, spoilers do occur.

The first mission with Akira Shimura has two possible endings. One, he goes south and exits the scope of the storyline. Two, he goes north, meets Naoko Mihama, and continues on to further contribute to the story that we see. You must do what would, in a linear timeline, be considered the non-canon action to be able to go down the canon path. It's impossible to do otherwise without cheating.

I chose this example because most of the other Second Objectives involve the character either doing something extra and then exiting down the same path as before, or doing something extra and then presumably exiting down the same path as before (the episode ends before the player has an opportunity to do so, e.g. Miyata's secondary objective of finding the nurse's shoe), so they don't serve as clear of an example.

To illustrate Burning Man's point of Harry being stuck in a time loop and then finding a singular exit point (GOOD), we have an example in Siren. One character experiences the time loop just like the others, where presumably every misstep, death, and sidetrack is a canon event. However, this character also gets to exit the story and return to the real world. Presumably, there is a version of her that's still stuck in the time loop, just like everyone who doesn't escape. By a similar token, it is conceivable that Harry's BAD endings and Game Overs plop him back in the diner booth, with GOOD+ being the longest way back. Only GOOD lets him actually escape, though some version of him still exists in the time loop.

Next, the Aglaophotis. In Siren, along with the primary and secondary objectives, there are also minor "tertiary" objectives that open up less obvious paths in the Link Navigator, such as four characters pushing over four obscure stones to allow a fifth character to light some lanterns that ultimately allow the True Ending to be accessed. I think we can agree that this scenario is even more difficult to follow logically than Harry getting the epiphany to throw the red liquid that he, again via epiphany, decided to scoop off Kaufmann's floor.

There are two mechanisms in Siren that allow this to happen, within the scope of the story. One is by quantum "brute force." Infinite iterations allow for all possibilities to occur, no matter how probabilistically remote they are: At some point, all four of those characters decide to push over those stones, and they only need to be pushed over once for the fifth character to be able to light those lanterns, which she eventually decides to do, etc. The other mechanism is the hive mind concept that the game, again, subtly hints at (via Sight Jacking). The player serves as the hive mind that collects information from character experiences and transfers hints to other characters at different time indices, cutting down the number of iterations that a "brute force" approach would require... and cleverly giving the otherwise disembodied player a specific role in the story.

In Harry's case, rather than a hive mind, it might be some combination of quantum "brute force" and a persistent feeling of deja vu.

Now, what application this has on Silent Hill is questionable, but if one considers this game to be the midpoint in the transition between The Mist and Siren, then it's entirely possible that Toyama intended the concept to be present. That Silent Hill 3 necessitates an out from the time loop doesn't necessarily destroy the concept.

Of course, it's also needlessly complicated and unnecessary for an understanding of the orthodox Alessa arc. Just thought I'd explore the concept some more.

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Missing since: 15 Apr 2004
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To be honest, I might well have preferred Silent Hill to exist in a time loop rather than have sequels. The idea is very fascinating.

But, since the game does have a direct sequel, there are three reasons why I don't believe there is a time loop.

1: Burning Man suggests that the events will repeat, ad infinitum, until the Good+ ending is achieved. You mention it being Good. It is likely you can take any of the endings and attribute to it the status of being the one which breaks the cycle. The only problem is, if there is a loop, what makes any individual ending the loop-breaker? Why would, for instance, Good+ break the loop when no other outcome would?

Good+, if anything, seems to suggest a continuation of looping time rather than a halting of it, since the final scene with Harry and Cybil perfectly emulates the scene with Harry and his wife.

2: Since either Good ending can lead into Silent Hill 3 well enough if you disregard the small details, this means that Cybil's survival is not ultimately very important either way. Touching upon the deja vu aspect, there are really only two branches in which you, the player, are able to significantly alter the outcome, which would imply that these are the events he 'remembers', and is able to change, whereas everything else is predetermined. Why these two factors, when there are arguably other factors which would be far more important for him to remember (such as Dahlia's lying or the truth about his daughter)?

3: Why is Cybil's survival necessary? You can save her and still get a bad ending. Ironically, only Kaufmann must be saved in order for the future continuity to make sense. His life means the difference between the Bads and the Goods, which is, in essence, the difference between Silent Hill 3 happening and not happening.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2007
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alone in the town wrote:
Burning Man suggests that the events will repeat, ad infinitum, until the Good+ ending is achieved. You mention it being Good. It is likely you can take any of the endings and attribute to it the status of being the one which breaks the cycle. The only problem is, if there is a loop, what makes any individual ending the loop-breaker? Why would, for instance, Good+ break the loop when no other outcome would?

Good+, if anything, seems to suggest a continuation of looping time rather than a halting of it, since the final scene with Harry and Cybil perfectly emulates the scene with Harry and his wife.

I also think that GOOD+ necessitates the continuation of the loop, hence why I referred to it as the "longest way back [to the diner booth]." The presentation of the last scene, as well as Cybil's replacement of Mrs. Mason in the opening sequence, contributes to this idea.

However, for the comparison to hold, the "GOOD+ Loop" also requires Harry and Cybil to leave Silent Hill for seven years, that Cheryl be raised by them, for Harry to be left a widower, and finally for Harry and Cheryl to return to Silent Hill and repeat the whole cycle again. They're still in the loop, it's just that the loop is longer and its orbit "wider."

An astronomical analogy would be Nemesis, the hypothetical (if it can even be called that) partner star to the Sun that has an orbital period of some few thousand years. Compared to the planets, which also orbit the Sun, its orbit is extremely elliptical, but it orbits all the same. Likewise, the "GOOD+ Loop" with respect to the "BAD Loop" or the "Harry Gets Stabbed To Death In Midwich Loop."

By that logic, Cybil can be outside of Silent Hill, yet still be a part of the time loop and not be free from it: She dies outside, as she must for Harry to reenter the town a widower, and restarts the loop in Silent Hill.

The reason I call GOOD the loop-breaker is because it leads to Silent Hill 3 without referencing, in the ending cinema or opening sequence, another loop. However, having said that, let's consider the concept of a widely elliptical orbit again: Harry still dies on the GOOD track, just seventeen years later. All of the other prospective loops are completed by Harry dying: Even in the "GOOD+ Loop," he comes back to Silent Hill and presumably dies in that alleyway.

Is it inconceivable, given what I just said about Cybil, that he would then awaken on the diner booth all over again?

Hell is repetition, indeed.

Quote:
Touching upon the deja vu aspect, there are really only two branches in which you, the player, are able to significantly alter the outcome, which would imply that these are the events he 'remembers', and is able to change, whereas everything else is predetermined. Why these two factors, when there are arguably other factors which would be far more important for him to remember (such as Dahlia's lying or the truth about his daughter)?

I inserted the deja vu concept to account for the fact that Harry says the same things in all of the cinemas, no matter how many times you select Next Fear from the memory card. However, there's something else to consider, and it's rather tricky because it requires taking the situation of Silent Hill, which is presented as an issue of game design, at face value. That is to say that Harry, even if deja vu would give him pause whenever Dahlia opens her mouth, has no choice but to follow her lead because there's nowhere else to go.

Now, I've never done this, but is it actually possible to go to the Balkan Church without clearing Midwich Elementary? If it isn't, what stops Harry? Are there locked doors, craters, or a feeling of inevitability on Harry's part (e.g. "I must check the school")? No matter what, because of Cheryl's notes and whatever keeps him from advancing, even if he (and the player) know that Cheryl isn't actually there, Harry must still search Midwich Elementary.

EDIT: I remember now. There's a locked door in K. Gordon's house.

Let's say that Harry goes to the Balkan Church and refuses to cooperate with Dahlia. Let's say he even tries to attack her, which may or may not work (what with Dahlia knowing magic and all that rot), what then? Either she kills him and he returns to the diner booth, or he can't advance beyond a certain point (the Green Lion Antique Shop), dies when Alessa finishes her Armageddon, and returns to the diner booth.

Like it or not, going along with Dahlia and letting the Flauros wreck Alessa is the only way for Harry to approach Cheryl and, by extension, an exit. Neither the game nor plot present any other viable alternative. Even foreknowledge can't help him, because there is no singular location where Cheryl is being kept that Harry can learn and attempt to access in subsequent loops.

Quote:
Why is Cybil's survival necessary?

It really isn't, except to serve the role of Mrs. Mason in the prospective "GOOD+ Loop." Even then, it isn't "survival" in a satisfactory sense, because she's still subject to the time loop. However, it is a "solution" that allows her to leave Silent Hill and die outside, from a linear time perspective, even if she doesn't really "leave" at all. Of course, the same rules must apply to Harry, which means that even he doesn't truly escape: His path back to the diner is just longer than hers, under certain circumstances.

Of course, if you apply this concept even wider, James could leave Silent Hill with Laura, die of old age, and then suddenly find himself staring in that mirror off the side of the highway. Would that count as leaving, if he lives a whole life afterwards, or not?

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 Post subject: Re: Which ending do you prefer?
     
         
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Missing since: 03 Jan 2005
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Regardless of canonicity, my favorite ending is Good+. I purposely get that one most of the time- it's uplifting, and I like Cybil too much to kill her each time that I play. I like to see her escape.

I HATE the bad ending. It pissed me off quite a bit when I got it after my first playthrough. I really don't want to go through all of that in the game to find out the character I played is dying in his Jeep.

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Last edited by phantomess on 18 Nov 2012, edited 1 time in total.

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 16 Mar 2012
Notes left: 17
I have siren too. was'nt it made by the same people who did the silent hill series? Team Silent? It is extremly hard and complicatied. The game gives you no prompts, you just keep cycling the same time loop untill you stumble on something you can do differently. You have to memorize everything, where the enemies are, where you objective is, where you haven't been before, the timing you need to not be seen and die.... You really need a note book for that game. and to sit down and play it all in one go, or you forget what the heck your supposed to do. If harry is stuck in some time loop, i feel really bad for him. Also do you think eventually he might remember all the different endings? like the dejavue gets worse and worse gradually, more and more, as the "layers of time" or something wear thin? Ya know since he's stuck there for all eternity? cause if so, i think i know what he writes down in those notebooks....


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Which ending do you prefer?

Missing since: 26 Mar 2012
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When I saw the good plus ending it made me emotional. The song fit it so well, I thought it was sad Alessa had to die. The bad ending is the saddest because Harry lives but doesn't even have any last words with his daughter or get her back. I loved this game.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 26 Apr 2012
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The first ending that I got was the good ending and since then I only like that, cause the bad ending is kind sad, Alessa and Cheryl, even Cybil dies, that's not nice, and the UFO ending is so weird, I didn't like at all, so the only end possible to me is the good one,

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 31 Mar 2012
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Bad +


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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Missing since: 03 Jan 2010
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Personally, I like the Good+ ending the most. Mainly because it makes Harry look awesome - he doesn't just march into Hell for the sake of his seven year old, he hangs around to help other people as well. Admittedly, one of those people is a complete scumbag who probably should have been killed, and that would be called karma.

On the flip side, I really dislike Bad+ because it seems to resolve nothing. Bad ends with Harry dead in his crashed jeep, making the events of Silent Hill the last moments of a dying mind,
[Reveal] Spoiler:
like Jacob's Ladder
. Bad+ on the other hand treats us to what exactly? Alessa/Cheryl is dead, Harry is understandably upset at the loss of his daughter and Cybil turns up and smacks him one. No "I'm sorry for your loss." No "I understand how you feel", just a bitch slap. It makes Cybil look bad.

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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 24 Nov 2011
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UFO just because of how goofy it is. Good+ is good too especially with the song that plays as Harry and Cybil are walking into the fog. However, the Good ending has that nice scene of Harry stopping to look up at the light on the road after the credits roll. That scene just felt really well done.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 03 Oct 2012
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Last seen at: Isle of Man
I prefer Good+ because it's the happiest ending, but obviously I accept Good as the true ending to the game. I assumed that Good+ would have been the real one until SH3.

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Which ending do you prefer?

Missing since: 30 Apr 2012
Notes left: 36
I like them all for different reasons, bad because it's the first ending I got although at the time I was not impressed that it was all a dream but now I quite the the idea of a timeloop.
Good and bad + I like because cybil survives (she sharees my 2nd name so were practicly family)
I love all the ufo endings for there comedy value I just got 3s like 5 mins ago for the first time gotta love that song
Good I guess would be my least favourite

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 04 Nov 2012
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Well, as far as just the ending, I prefer the good ending because it illustrates how Harry got out of Silent hill with reborn Alessa, without Cybil following behind him in a really awkward manner( he doesn't even acknowledge her till the FMV). Still, I consider myself lucky to have gotten the Bad + ending first, killing Cybil skips the highly important plot point that Cheryl is adopted, and I dislike that sidequest.

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 10 Sep 2012
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Personally, I prefer the bad ending... the one where you see Harry in his Jeep dead and laying on the horn. This gives the impression that the whole game was all in his head, just before he died... kinda like the movie Jacob's Ladder. Personally, this is what I thought the REAL ending of the game was, before the other SH games came out.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 12 Aug 2013
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Good, just because it felt the most realistic to me.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 08 Aug 2012
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Bad.
Because,
Everybody dies. The end.

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