kauffman, dahlia, alessa SPOILERS

[simeonalo]

No! What is this? A Silent Hill fan asking questions about a SH game he has not played? Come over here, little one, and I will help you play the first game. Yes. That is it. Sit down on the chair. Turn down the lights. Wrap yourself in a blanket. Grab the controller. Yes. With two hands. Be careful. Do not shake it up and down when you're scared. Actually, yes. Do so. That should help quench the fear out. Yes. Hold it gently, tenderly, but firmly. Yes. You are an expertise on this. Yes. Feels very nice. Ohhh. Up. Down. Yes.

(not my joke)

Anyways, I believe in the context of just infering data from what's confirmed especially in vague moments of a game. Which would mean that I'm in for the ending where Cybil died, as there's not much evidence stating otherwise although it could be confirmed. However, it is always safer to assume that she died because it's easier (in my opinion) and doesn't leave room for argument. Maybe the Order members wanted to track down all people involved (which would have taken a lot of time) and Cybil just wanted to keep safe in case that would happened. It probably took years to find Harry, and maybe Cybil was just smart going into hiding early. However, like I said, I don't favor that more than I do with the Cybil-is-dead theory.

[Aerith Gainsborough]

^Oh, Simy...
I almost vomited.

Yeah, I agree with that, like I said before. It could be possible, but it's probably not. It would be nice, though. I'd kind of like to see Cybil make an appearance in another game (Besides SM).

[R08813]

I assume that if one takes Owaku's statement in 2003 to mean that her outcome was ambiguous, Homecoming in 2007 resolved that ambiguity rather decisively.

Welcome to the board, person I definitely did not have this argument with once already this week.

You're more than welcome to make that assumption.

Thank you, and you need to understand that my goal is not to win a debate. If that were true, the last thing I would do is to suggest a theory which is in favour of the Good Ending.

[AuraTwilight]

The undeniable reason why Cybil is dead and not alive in hiding:

"Hey, um, I'm a respectable cop with years of experience. There's this religious cult who's, you know, killing people and racketeering drugs, and they're trying to assassinate this dude and I because they think his adopted daughter is their messiah and I helped him escape. We have evidence and precedent for this organization making people disappear and shit, so can you put the three of us into Protected Services? Yea, thanks."

[SHF]

http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/198641-silen ... faqs/40662
Scroll down to where it says "endings"

( this is a more accurate source)

So Kauffman dies in both bad endings, and I can't find video for the cutscene where Lisa drags him under. Does he get dragged under in both good endings?
Anyway, Cybil CAN die in the Bad and Good Endings.
Though I am assuming, like when Henry talks about Frank mentioning his son and daughter in law went missing in silent hill a few years back, Cybil, either dies or is Missing.
To put it simply:
Cybil-Dead or is missing
Kauffman-dead or.....missing?

[VenusDoom]

Why would a man stick his hand in a toilet and not wash it afterwards? Why would an orphan think his mother is an apartment room? This is Silent Hill people. One can even assume that Cybil lived with Harry in hiding for awhile and was killed by the attacker in Portland, and then Harry killed him. Anything's possible. No one really knows what happened to Cybil other than she disappeared. Personally, I consider the Good ending cannon. Arguing about whether the good or good+ ending is cannon is like arguing about which SH2 ending is cannon. You know what I think? The UFO endings are the ones that tie the games together... <-<

[AuraTwilight]

Why would a man stick his hand in a toilet and not wash it afterwards? Why would an orphan think his mother is an apartment room? This is Silent Hill people.

Bullshit. You can't compare two emotionally unstable, desperate, suicidal nutcases to a capable, professional, level-headed police officer. Even when Cybil is saved from possession and knows for a fact all this demonic shit is real she takes it in stride, yo.

One can even assume that Cybil lived with Harry in hiding for awhile and was killed by the attacker in Portland, and then Harry killed him.

Except either Heather or Harry would've mentioned how the Portland Attacker killed Cheryl's Foster Mother figure? No? Okay.

[VenusDoom]

^ I'm just saying, we don't know much about Cybil other than SH1, she acted like a sterotypical police officer, ...wait, no, why would a police officer give ANYONE a gun after knowing them 5 minutes? What "professional level-headed police officer" gives someone they just found a gun? Even given the situation, it'd be more likely that she escort him than just give him a deadly weapon. No police officer would ever give over their firearm. As for the rest, I was just giving an example about what COULD have happened. Not that I belive that happened. As for Cybil being Heather's foster mother, that's what the Good+ ending leads you to belive given to how they replace Harry's wife with Cybil. While it's never directly stated by Harry or Heather, it's indeed possible. Heather only makes one mention of Harry's wife, and Harry never mentions her at all if my memory's correct. Why does Harry never talk about his wife? While I do belive the Good ending is most likely to be cannon the good+ ending is indeed a very unlikely BUT possible cannon ending. Most fans (myself included) view Good as cannon. But untill we get an interview stating, read a memo, or find her body in-game, or some other evidence to confirm her death, I think that there's a distinct possibility she could still be alive. Joseph Schrieber wrote an article on the wish house and the SHSS, why did the police never investigate that? Douglas (if my memory serves me right) published an article on them as well. Who's to say Cybil doesn't lead some secret investigative team that keeps tabs on the cult? Again, VERY unlikely, but there are a million possibilities. Harry wasn't even in his right-mind after the events of SH1, mentioning him cupping his hands arround baby Heather's neck and considering killing her. Maybe he wanted to repress and forget the events and refused help from Cybil. Anything's possible.

[Aerith Gainsborough]

^Well, I'm sure Cybil had another pistol, I mean...actually, we know she did. During the carousel fight she has one, so that must mean she had another. Also, if you're stuck in Silent Hill, and you find another human being out of the nest of monsters, are you really going to kill them? Probably not, unless you want to be alone and not increase the odds of surviving and finding your way out of that hell hole.

[alone in the town]

Arguing about whether the good or good+ ending is cannon is like arguing about which SH2 ending is cannon.

Incorrect on two counts.

1. Silent Hill 3's events follow-up the Good ending specifically. This is canon. Team Silent specifies that it is the one which leads into the third game. Official word on Silent Hill 2 is just the opposite, they never single out a single ending as orthodox.

2. Silent Hill 2's endings are all logical. Well, Rebirth has that little stigma of only being available in a replay, but assuming it is open to you, all four endings can be achieved by a person playing the game blind, with no foreknowledge. To achieve the + endings in the first game on a first attempt requires having knowledge outside of the game itself. It is not an ending anybody ever gets by accident (though people like to lie about this, for some reason).

People will probably always insist that Good+ is a possible tie to Silent Hill 3, but those people are categorically wrong. All one has to do to see this is ask one such person to explain how events could account, and see all of the ridiculous outrages to the very concept of logic these people commit in doing so.

[AuraTwilight]

^ I'm just saying, we don't know much about Cybil other than SH1, she acted like a sterotypical police officer, ...wait, no, why would a police officer give ANYONE a gun after knowing them 5 minutes? What "professional level-headed police officer" gives someone they just found a gun?

Everyone in the town is missing, nothing in the town is working, and the roads are out in the sense that the town is surrounded by infinite whiteness.

Even given the situation, it'd be more likely that she escort him than just give him a deadly weapon. No police officer would ever give over their firearm.

You're right, and she even suggests such. But Harry refuses to be derailed from his search for Cheryl, and she can't accompany him because she needs to make her dispatch. Giving him a gun is better than outright abandoning a citizen.

Heather only makes one mention of Harry's wife, and Harry never mentions her at all if my memory's correct. Why does Harry never talk about his wife?

Heather never knew Harry's wife; she only does so when she recovers memories of a past life. Why, then, would Harry open old wounds for a person Heather never knew?

But untill we get an interview stating, read a memo, or find her body in-game, or some other evidence to confirm her death, I think that there's a distinct possibility she could still be alive.

Homecoming.

Joseph Schrieber wrote an article on the wish house and the SHSS, why did the police never investigate that? Douglas (if my memory serves me right) published an article on them as well. Who's to say Cybil doesn't lead some secret investigative team that keeps tabs on the cult? Again, VERY unlikely, but there are a million possibilities.

You're comparing a novelist and a private detective to a police officer.

[SHF]

The undeniable reason why Cybil is dead and not alive in hiding:

"Hey, um, I'm a respectable cop with years of experience. There's this religious cult who's, you know, killing people and racketeering drugs, and they're trying to assassinate this dude and I because they think his adopted daughter is their messiah and I helped him escape. We have evidence and precedent for this organization making people disappear and shit, so can you put the three of us into Protected Services? Yea, thanks."

For all we know, she got sick of the crazy shit she went through with Silent Hill, and decided to start her life over.
Maybe she ducked outta Brahms, and started her own restuarant business someplace else or something.

[Kenji]

Okay, look... Cybil is a Cop. That capital C is there on purpose. She's so damn cop that she never shirks on her perceived responsibilities (like getting Harry and Cheryl out of that hellhole), even when it becomes clear that the situation is so bad that there might not even be a Brahms PD to report to.

In other words, that sense of duty isn't there because she's being paid: It's part of her personality.

The idea that the same dedicated, runs-in-her-veins cop would just put her tail between her legs and run away because of some cult -- a cult made up of squishy, shootable humans, mind you -- might wanna put a hit on her is laughable. It's laughable on a fundamental level, that same fundamental level that made everyone but the most gullible reject the idea that Yuna could put away her holy vestments and run off in a flying pimpmobile to do some "treasure hunting."

See, a person's genetics and experiences, along with the situation, combine to put parameters on their possible actions. Sure, they could theoretically act in all kinds of ways, but the parameters of their personality will invariably limit them to one or two choices. Understanding a person allows you to predict what they'll do.

This is why poker is about "playing people" instead of "playing cards," and how I was able to get my ex-roommate to drink a tub of ranch dressing by challenging his masculinity. Everybody, whether they know it or not, follows a set of rules. Those rules limit their behavior. This is the principle behind strategy, and it's the principle behind storytelling.

Consider this a freebie: If you ignore rules and instead insist that you can do whatever the hell you want, because you're "creative," you'll always be a shitty storyteller. Or artist, strategist, businessman, or gamer. It's that damn important. It's so important that we can sense it in our gut, even if we can't put it into those terms.

Hence, the Yuna example, and why Cybil going into hiding before Harry is so ridiculous that it gets rejected immediately.

[SHF]

Okay, look... Cybil is a Cop. That capital C is there on purpose. She's so damn cop that she never shirks on her perceived responsibilities (like getting Harry and Cheryl out of that hellhole), even when it becomes clear that the situation is so bad that there might not even be a Brahms PD to report to.

In other words, that sense of duty isn't there because she's being paid: It's part of her personality.

The idea that the same dedicated, runs-in-her-veins cop would just put her tail between her legs and run away because of some cult -- a cult made up of squishy, shootable humans, mind you -- might wanna put a hit on her is laughable. It's laughable on a fundamental level, that same fundamental level that made everyone but the most gullible reject the idea that Yuna could put away her holy vestments and run off in a flying pimpmobile to do some "treasure hunting."

See, a person's genetics and experiences, along with the situation, combine to put parameters on their possible actions. Sure, they could theoretically act in all kinds of ways, but the parameters of their personality will invariably limit them to one or two choices. Understanding a person allows you to predict what they'll do.

This is why poker is about "playing people" instead of "playing cards," and how I was able to get my ex-roommate to drink a tub of ranch dressing by challenging his masculinity. Everybody, whether they know it or not, follows a set of rules. Those rules limit their behavior. This is the principle behind strategy, and it's the principle behind storytelling.

Consider this a freebie: If you ignore rules and instead insist that you can do whatever the hell you want, because you're "creative," you'll always be a shitty storyteller. Or artist, strategist, businessman, or gamer. It's that damn important. It's so important that we can sense it in our gut, even if we can't put it into those terms.

Hence, the Yuna example, and why Cybil going into hiding before Harry is so ridiculous that it gets rejected immediately.

This is possibly the most sensible thing I have ever read.
I understand what your'e saying. Your'e saying if Cybil is strong enough to not only be a cop, but to face the zealous cult members, there is no reason for her to pussy out after the incident.

[alone in the town]

Even if there was a reason for her to freak out and go into hiding after the incident, there's no way it would happen so immediately that she never even goes back to Brahms and reports back to her precinct. It's five years before Harry takes simple measures such as moving away and assigning aliases, and he has ten times as much reason to want to do it as Cybil, considering he's the one raising the little MacGuffin the cult wants so badly. At the very least, if she did go into immediate deep cover, would she not have convinced Harry to do the same, with the same urgency?

[mr. mason]

I Miss the days when there was more ambiguity, too bad homecoming had to piss all over that. Anyway, kaufman was as good as dead even if he got out of that situation at the bar. He was still trapped in alessa's nightmare and i seriously doubt he was going to escape, let alone survive.

[alone in the town]

There really wasn't much ambiguity in the first place. If not for an offhand comment in Lost Memories, Cybil's fate would have never been in question once the third game came out, because that is literally the only concrete thing upon which anybody ever bases all hypotheses regarding her possible survival.

[krakalackin]

If the Book of Lost Memories is canon and the "good" ending is the true ending...

PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER:

Harry kills Cybil at the amusement park

And that's what happened to Cybil!