So which ending is canon?

[Lemex]

Well I appreciate that. Like I said, I don't want to get into an argument with you about the definition of "dismissing..." but later on in your post you say that Owaku's quote has "no real merit." Now personally, I consider that "dismissing" it. But if you really don't like the word "dismiss," then I'll try my best not to use that word.

I don't consider that dismissing, because I didn't ignore it. Since this is purely a lexical difference then we can call this quits.

I'm not defending the Good+ ending, exactly. I'm simply pointing out that the guidebook is inconclusive about which ending is Canon. If the creators truly agreed that the Good ending was Canon, then Owaku's quote makes no sense.

But the guidebook actually does say what is Canon, or at least what is the Orthodox ending.

SILENT HILL ENDING ANALYSIS
The first game has four conclusions that play out depending on the protagonist's actions. Let's reaffirm their respective differences.

good
The orthodox ending, which is connected to the third game

Taken from Book of Lost Memories page 'Silent Hill Ending Analysis'.
http://www.silenthillmemories.net/lost_ ... 029_en.htm

If this was made by the creators of Silent Hill then I guess we must consider this their opinion. If not, since we now know their opinion this can be dropped as well.

"Risque"? Doesn't that mean provocative?

No.

Ris`que´ (rės`kã´)
a. masc. 1. Hazardous; risky; esp., fig., verging upon impropriety; dangerously close to, or suggestive of, what is indecent or of doubtful morality; as, a risqué story.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Risque

I find it impossible to believe that Owaku was deliberately trying to obscure a fact about the game... so then, what does his quote mean? Maybe there was a disagreement among the creators about whether her death should be canonical fact, or left ambiguous?

I wouldn't hazard a guess, because I just don't see enough merit in the quote. I can think of a few reasons why he might have chosen to be obscure - but even then, I don't know how the sentence would have been read in Japanese; so I can't really have an opinion of it or interpret it.

If you feel you can then I guess this debate is over. For what it's worth, it's been fun.

[Edea]

Owaku doesn't speak Englisg or have twitter or facebook, or even his own website, to my knowledge. :-/

[Tillerman]

Ris`que´ (rės`kã´)
a. masc. 1. Hazardous; risky; esp., fig., verging upon impropriety; dangerously close to, or suggestive of, what is indecent or of doubtful morality; as, a risqué story.

Ah, well then I still don't understand your usage of that word. No need to explain it though, since it's a bit moot now anyway.

If you feel you can then I guess this debate is over. For what it's worth, it's been fun.

I don't mind ending it here. I enjoyed discussing it with you, for what it's worth.

Owaku doesn't speak Englisg or have twitter or facebook, or even his own website, to my knowledge. :-/

Does anyone know if he has email? I might possible be able to find a Japanese translator to ask him. I'd be curious to hear the answer myself.

[alone in the town]

Given that he seems to have a sense of humor, I doubt he'd give an answer that would satisfy anybody. Certainly, he would be amused that two sentences could cause so much debate.

I get the sense that the desire to get his opinion is not to confirm what are now multiple official answers to this question, but a hope that he'll either contradict them or simply confuse the matter forever.

[Tillerman]

Well, I can't find Owaku's email address, so no luck there. So I tried asking Ito about Owaku's quote, to see what he'd say. Here's the question I asked:

"If Cybil is dead in SH3, then why does Hiroyuki Owaku say that her fate is left to our imaginations in Ushinawareta Kioku?"

And here was his answer. Ito: "Because if you choose "good+" ending among them, she is not dead, maybe."

Unfortunately, I don't know how to take this answer. Based on his previous answer, it sounds like he's saying that the creators talked about her fate and decided she would probably be dead in SH3. But based on this answer, it sounds like he's agreeing that her fate should be left up to the player. Or maybe he just means that she's dead in SH3, but possibly alive in an alternate timeline... although that seems far-fetched. I'm not exactly sure how those two answers make sense.

[AuraTwilight]

I think the funny thing is that Cybil is only "maybe" alive in Good+. Damn, Cybil.

[Tillerman]

I think it's funny the way the creators still can't seem to make up their minds, even now. If you combine Ito's two answers, he's basically saying "Cybil is dead. But maybe not." I'd say that about sums up this thread. Well done, Ito.

[alone in the town]

Seems to me he's saying "Cybil's dead, but you can choose to pretend otherwise by getting the false ending, just like Owaku was saying all along".

[Tillerman]

I suppose that's one way to look at it. He doesn't say anything about "pretending" or "false ending" though. I think Ito's just being non-committal.

[alone in the town]

He doesn't have to say it's the false ending. It's already established fact. In the Good+ scenario, Cybil probably doesn't die. Since Cybil is dead, Good+ is a false ending. The player can earn that ending if the player chooses and imagine what might have been.

His mind seems quite made up to me. There is no contradiction in the two statements. But, by all means, continue with a platform which has always rested on the assumption that nobody involved with the creation of this game really knows what they're talking about.

[Tillerman]

Since Cybil is dead, Good+ is a false ending.

if you choose "good+" ending among them, she is not dead, maybe.

One of these things is not like the other.

But, by all means, continue with a platform which has always rested on the assumption that nobody involved with the creation of this game really knows what they're talking about.

No one said that. I said he's non-committal. And he is.

[JKristine35]

I agree with Ryan. Ito's saying she's dead in the official canon, but if someone wants to believe she's alive, then more power to them. I don't see where he's changing his mind at all. The fact that he gave such a firm answer the first time around shows the official canon is that she died. The second answer is just him telling players it's not a sin to disagree with canon if they want to.

[Tillerman]

That's certainly a possibility. Although, if that were really what he was trying to say, it would have been better to say something like "She's dead, but no one says you can't have your own opinion." The way he said it sounds more like he's trying to make everyone happy. The first question was phrased: "I'm assuming she's dead, right?" and he just kind of agreed with that. The second question was about Owaku and he just seemed like he didn't want to contradict Owaku at all, so he turned around and said "because she might be alive."

So, even if you're right, that doesn't make me any less annoyed with him.

[JKristine35]

The first question dealt with official canon, asking if SH3 followed Good or Good+ and if Cybil is dead in that timeline. He said yes, she's dead. The second question asked him to explain Owaku's statement that basically says any ending is possible, despite that it's a known fact that 2 of those endings are definitely non-canon. He simply explained that statement. He wasn't changing his mind at all, just telling fans it's okay to disagree with canon, which is the same thing Owaku was doing.

[Tillerman]

The only problem I have is that you're putting some words into both their mouths. Personally I don't think Owaku was telling fans it was okay to disagree with canon (because it's not like he said "Cybil is dead, but you can ignore that and use your own imagination.") more like he was intentionally trying to keep the canon obscured, probably because he figured it was cooler for certain things to remain a mystery. And I agree that Ito was trying to explain that statement, but if what you're saying is correct, then he did so in a strange way... though that doesn't necessarily mean you're wrong.

I will grant you, you have a plausible explanation, and maybe you're right.

[Augophthalmoses]

Apparently, Masahiro Ito was able to get a hold of Toyama and ask his opinion about the debate of the Cybil's fate.

http://alchemillahospital.net/keichiro- ... ng-of-sh1/

[alone in the town]

Interesting. So, the creator considers Good+ to be true, though the series canon does not (it notes that Owaku wrote Silent Hill 3 upon the Good ending).

I guess Tillerman is right and some of these guys just didn't know what the hell their own intentions were.

[Augophthalmoses]

I guess TwinPerfect is going to start arguing that Silent Hill 3 isn't canon either in light of this recent news.

[Aerith Gainsborough]

Oh no...here we go again.

This is awful. I really do not look forward to this little storm.

[Augophthalmoses]

Oh no...here we go again.

This is awful. I really do not look forward to this little storm.

Well, those idiots haven't said anything yet aside from "Toyama rocks!". I do look forward to them intentionally ignoring everything else Toyama mentioned in that statement of his.