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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Six Stakes - Final boss
     
         
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Missing since: 11 Jun 2005
Notes left: 1868
Last seen at: Finland
As we all know Silent Hill is heavily based on occultism, both fictional and real.
There's a great deal of material inspired by Aleister Crowley's writings, such as his attempts to concieve the 'magickal child' (juxtaposed to The Order*'s attempts to have Alessa give birth to the 'god', which in fact is the devil), whereas Alessa the mother of god resembles the thelemic Scarlet Woman, Babalon who'd be the one to concieve the magickal child.

Also the named doors in Nowhere are entitled after five Olympian spirits of seven, found in the book of ceremonial black magic, Arbatel de magia veterum.

I'm sure there are several other references throughout the game, but my eye was caught by the six upward stakes in the final boss portion of Nowhere.
Do they carry an occult significance or rather a reference within Silent Hill?

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Six Stakes - Final boss
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11383
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Nah, it's just a motif.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Six Stakes - Final boss
     
         
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Missing since: 20 Aug 2003
Notes left: 4728
Last seen at: H-Town
Arthemesic wrote:
to The Order*'s attempts to have Alessa give birth to the 'god', which in fact is the devil

Okay, I might be a little rusty with my SH theorizing, but the cults god is not the devil. The only item in the game to suggest anything like this is a memo about opposing religious groups dubbing the god with a demons name, not even the devil it self.

As for the stakes. Yeah, I don't think it's supposed to mean anything. Though having said that, I have speculated an occult reference with the six stakes and the "six of wands" tarot card a long time ago, and found something interesting though it's a long shot.

Here's what my text book says about the divinatory meanings of "the six of wands":
Conquest. Triumph. Good news. Gain. Advancement. Expectation. Desires realized - the results of efforts.
(Reverse meanings: Indefinite delay. Fear. Apprehension. Disloyalty. Superficial benefit. Inconclusive gain.)


That's the best occult reference for the stakes I've been able to come up with.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Six Stakes - Final boss
     
         
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Missing since: 11 Jun 2005
Notes left: 1868
Last seen at: Finland
B5160-R wrote:
Arthemesic wrote:
to The Order*'s attempts to have Alessa give birth to the 'god', which in fact is the devil

Okay, I might be a little rusty with my SH theorizing, but the cults god is not the devil. The only item in the game to suggest anything like this is a memo about opposing religious groups dubbing the god with a demons name, not even the devil it self.

As for the stakes. Yeah, I don't think it's supposed to mean anything. Though having said that, I have speculated an occult reference with the six stakes and the "six of wands" tarot card a long time ago, and found something interesting though it's a long shot.

Here's what my text book says about the divinatory meanings of "the six of wands":
Conquest. Triumph. Good news. Gain. Advancement. Expectation. Desires realized - the results of efforts.
(Reverse meanings: Indefinite delay. Fear. Apprehension. Disloyalty. Superficial benefit. Inconclusive gain.)


That's the best occult reference for the stakes I've been able to come up with.


Yeah I admit, demon might be a more appropriate word for it.
Thanks for clearing that up, I'm quite convinced it is the six wands you mention, especially because of the frequent use of Tarot in SH3.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Six Stakes - Final boss
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11383
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
Yeah I admit, demon might be a more appropriate word for it.


It's not that, either.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Six Stakes - Final boss
     
         
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Missing since: 11 Jun 2005
Notes left: 1868
Last seen at: Finland
AuraTwilight wrote:
Quote:
Yeah I admit, demon might be a more appropriate word for it.


It's not that, either.


Oh well :mrgreen: Either way, not a good god

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Six Stakes - Final boss
     
         
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Missing since: 05 Jul 2010
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^I don't know if I can really have an opinion on the Order's god, honestly. It seems to develop the feelings that has been fed into it, and thus every time we've encountered the god in a birthing point-of-view, it's always been an antagonist. Then again, it was fed hatred, and anger. So, I just can't really call it good or evil. I think it's just situational. I'm sure there's a thread about this.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Six Stakes - Final boss
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11383
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Arthemesic wrote:
AuraTwilight wrote:
Quote:
Yeah I admit, demon might be a more appropriate word for it.


It's not that, either.


Oh well :mrgreen: Either way, not a good god


It's good-intentioned; it was born to end human suffering. Problem is it only has one way to do that, but the fact that it's summoned tells it that this is what humans want.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Six Stakes - Final boss
     
         
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Missing since: 11 Jun 2005
Notes left: 1868
Last seen at: Finland
B5160-R wrote:
Here's what my text book says about the divinatory meanings of "the six of wands":
Conquest. Triumph. Good news. Gain. Advancement. Expectation. Desires realized - the results of efforts.
(Reverse meanings: Indefinite delay. Fear. Apprehension. Disloyalty. Superficial benefit. Inconclusive gain.)


That's the best occult reference for the stakes I've been able to come up with.


Well, this is what I found from Thelemapedia, an interpretation of the six of wands which seems to verify what you brought up.

"Energy in completely balanced manifestation...The reference is also to Jupiter and Leo, which seems to imply a benediction on the harmony and beauty of this arrangement...This [card] shows the stabilization of the Energy, and its reception and reflection by the Feminine. There is no circle to enclose the system. It is self-supporting, like the Sun." From LXXVIII: "Victory after strife: Love: pleasure gained by labour: carefulness, sociability and avoiding of strife, yet victory therein: also insolence, and pride of riches and success, etc. The whole dependent on the dignity."


Aerith Gainsborough wrote:
^I don't know if I can really have an opinion on the Order's god, honestly. It seems to develop the feelings that has been fed into it, and thus every time we've encountered the god in a birthing point-of-view, it's always been an antagonist. Then again, it was fed hatred, and anger. So, I just can't really call it good or evil. I think it's just situational. I'm sure there's a thread about this.


It certainly was fed with hatred, based on the priestess Claudia's words, intentionally.
Perhaps the god (I refer to 'incubator') was a good-willing endbringer, but what could explain the fact that Aglaophotis is used to disperse evil spirits, and Baphomet is the result of using it on the god?

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Six Stakes - Final boss
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11383
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
but what could explain the fact that Aglaophotis is used to disperse evil spirits, and Baphomet is the result of using it on the god?


Because the Aglaophotis only worked because Alessa thought it did, and she grouped the God in with evil spirits because she knew it was going to hurt people.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Six Stakes - Final boss
     
         
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Missing since: 11 Jun 2005
Notes left: 1868
Last seen at: Finland
AuraTwilight wrote:
Quote:
but what could explain the fact that Aglaophotis is used to disperse evil spirits, and Baphomet is the result of using it on the god?


Because the Aglaophotis only worked because Alessa thought it did, and she grouped the God in with evil spirits because she knew it was going to hurt people.


There could be another occult reference here, specifically towards Gnosticism.
You see, in Gnostic belief one actually believes that the Demiurge, or Creator, or God is actually evil for trapping our souls into the prison of mortal matter. And in turn, the light-bearer is actually Lucifer, the bringer of wisdom. A said true path to enlightenment, liberation.

Perhaps The Order is a gnostic cult with the intention of summoning the devil, who then would be a god to gnostics rather than a demon. Harry is not in the know, neither is Heather, so they see how it 'really' is.

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Brookhaven Receptionist
 Post subject: Re: Six Stakes - Final boss
     
         
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Missing since: 02 May 2010
Notes left: 877
Last seen at: The Masonic Temple
^I don't think it works like that, myself. It seems to me as though the god, created at the focus of the holy place, Silent Hill, ended up taking on the attributes of its surroundings, much like Silent Hill does. Whenever someone goes to Silent Hill, they seem to leave a permanent... scarring, I guess, on the town. James left behind Pyramid Head, Harry left the cockroaches, Alessa left the hospital-nurse motif, etc. So what I'm thinking is, the god takes on the aspect of whatever it is exposed to in the womb. Since all it ever gets is pain, suffering, humiliation, and death, that is what it was formed out of, and what it was made to cause. Well, that's what I think, anyway. :mrgreen:

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Six Stakes - Final boss
     
         
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Missing since: 11 Jun 2005
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A strong-based theory, good sir. I find that perfectly reasonable of an interpretation.

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Six Stakes - Final boss
     
         
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Missing since: 24 Oct 2011
Notes left: 77
Last seen at: Borley Haunted Mansion
B5160-R wrote:
Arthemesic wrote:
to The Order*'s attempts to have Alessa give birth to the 'god', which in fact is the devil

Okay, I might be a little rusty with my SH theorizing, but the cults god is not the devil. The only item in the game to suggest anything like this is a memo about opposing religious groups dubbing the god with a demons name, not even the devil it self.


Sorry mate, but I have to disagree, those demons and the "God" itself does not look much like a God to me, more like a demon or soemthing.

Here is even a quote from SH3.

Quote:
Heather: "God"? Are you sure you don't mean "Devil"?

Vincent: Whichever you like.

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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: Six Stakes - Final boss

Missing since: 20 Jun 2010
Notes left: 1626
NemesisFY wrote:
B5160-R wrote:
Arthemesic wrote:
to The Order*'s attempts to have Alessa give birth to the 'god', which in fact is the devil

Okay, I might be a little rusty with my SH theorizing, but the cults god is not the devil. The only item in the game to suggest anything like this is a memo about opposing religious groups dubbing the god with a demons name, not even the devil it self.


Sorry mate, but I have to disagree, those demons and the "God" itself does not look much like a God to me, more like a demon or soemthing.

Here is even a quote from SH3.

Quote:
Heather: "God"? Are you sure you don't mean "Devil"?

Vincent: Whichever you like.

To us it looks like a devil, but to the Order it's a God. Besides, God's form changes depending on who summons/births it. She can appear Holy and Divine, or She can appear as a monster or devil. Either way, to the Order She's a God.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Six Stakes - Final boss
     
         
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Missing since: 24 Oct 2011
Notes left: 77
Last seen at: Borley Haunted Mansion
Soulless-Shadow wrote:
To us it looks like a devil, but to the Order it's a God. Besides, God's form changes depending on who summons/births it. She can appear Holy and Divine, or She can appear as a monster or devil. Either way, to the Order She's a God.


You said She.

Why?

If it's "She" wouldn't it be a goddess then?

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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: Six Stakes - Final boss

Missing since: 20 Jun 2010
Notes left: 1626
NemesisFY wrote:
Soulless-Shadow wrote:
To us it looks like a devil, but to the Order it's a God. Besides, God's form changes depending on who summons/births it. She can appear Holy and Divine, or She can appear as a monster or devil. Either way, to the Order She's a God.


You said She.

Why?

If it's "She" wouldn't it be a goddess then?

From what we've seen in the church in SH3, their God is indeed a "she". Why they refer to Her as "God" as opposed to "Goddess", I wouldn't have a clue.


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Brookhaven Receptionist
 Post subject: Re: Six Stakes - Final boss
     
         
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Missing since: 02 May 2010
Notes left: 877
Last seen at: The Masonic Temple
^Probably because, and I'm speculating here, the native female-friendly religion was gradually subsumed and assimilated by a heavily masculine religion, christianity. The practitioners of this new subsect of christianity, who'd have been raised believing women had a place, were inferior, etc. (as befitting the 17th century, and christianity at the time) would probably find something with a female creator and lord repugnant. So, unless you were dealing with very old texts and stuff, She'd be referred to as "god."

It'd be similar to what the greeks did to the regions they conquered, so...

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Six Stakes - Final boss
     
         
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Missing since: 24 Oct 2011
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Soulless-Shadow, you mean the picture inside the church?

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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: Six Stakes - Final boss

Missing since: 20 Jun 2010
Notes left: 1626
NemesisFY wrote:
Soulless-Shadow, you mean the picture inside the church?

Specifically the paintings called "Salvation", "Creation", and "Promise". They clearly depict a woman in red, and two out of those three say "She" and "Her" while also calling her "God". You can see them here, but they're a little small. Just scroll down or use ctrl+F and look for "Myth".


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