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My Bestsellers Clerk
 Post subject: The symbols on the televisions?
     
         
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Missing since: 08 Oct 2009
Notes left: 310
There is something I have yet to understand.

In the Mall, there is a set of nine televisions (And one larger television off to the side) that display a short clip of Cheryl as soon as you try to go up the escalator. It also displays a Mark of Samael/Seal of Metatron, but aside from that, there are three other symbols that display on the set.

Does anyone know the meaning of these symbols, if any, and how they might apply to the game?


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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19401
Last seen at: #lfk
The symbols are of the 7 Olympiad Spirits.

Image

Their use further connects the spell Dahlia cast as one of alchemy. The name of her antique shop is a clue, too.

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Rosewater Park Attendant
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Missing since: 25 Mar 2009
Notes left: 1345
Last seen at: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Five of them are also on the locked doors in Nowhere.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 22 Dec 2006
Notes left: 295
Last seen at: Leeds, UK
That's pretty damn interesting. I don't even remember these symbols it's been so long since I played SH1. I'll have to make sure I'm looking out for them next time.

Is there no other reason for them to be there other than to tell us about Dahlia's magical preference though? I don't know enough about the 'Seven Angels' to ponder this myself, so any ideas? :P

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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19401
Last seen at: #lfk
An excerpt from E X E G E S I S, a Silent Hill compendium I've been writing:
MMY wrote:
Olympian Spirits: each of the seven spirits dwell in the air and in interplanetary space governing a number of the 196 provinces of Heaven. They are: Aratron, Bethor, Phaleg, Och, Hagith, Ophiel, Phul.

Aratron: governs the planet Saturn; ruler of 49 provinces of Heaven; teaches alchemy, magic, & medicine, and is able to make a person invisible; can also cause barren women to become fertile.

Bethor: governs the planet Jupiter; ruler of 42 provinces of Heaven; commands 29,000 legions of spirits (193,314,000 angels).

Phaleg: governs the planet Mars; ruler of 35 provinces of Heaven; in white magic, he is one of the seven Stewards of Heaven; according to Henri Cornelius Agrippa, Phaleg is to be considered a warlord; his day for invocation is Tuesday.

Och: governs the sun; ruler of 28 provinces of Heaven; construed as a mineralogist and “prince of alchemy”; commands 36,536 legions of spirits (243,548,976 angels).

Hagith: governs the planet Venus; ruler of 21 provinces of Heaven; his day for invocation is Friday; commands 4,000 legions of spirits (26,664,000 angels); capable of transmuting metals.

Ophiel: governs the planet Mercury; commands an estimated 100,000 legions of spirits (666,600,000 angels); his name is placed on the Necromantic Bell of Girardius—a bell rung to summon the dead.

Phul: governs the moon; considered by Cornelius Agrippa as “lord of the powers of the moon and supreme lord of the waters”; his day for invocation is Monday.

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 08 Oct 2009
Notes left: 310
I found a video of what I was talking about, for those of you who are interested in seeing. And forgive me, there are more than three other symbols. I was simply going off memory, as this is one of the only cutscenes that really bugs me to this day; I simply had no idea what it meant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4-rgirfHUU

I wonder if there is a metaphor contained in the order/pattern in which they are displayed? It looks pretty random, and pretty rapid-fire, but that would make it even more interesting if it were true. There has to be something more there than 'This is what Dahlia believed in'.

MMY, do you have the individual symbols for each spirit? They're somewhat hard to describe.

EDIT: Nevermind. Your previous image just wasn't displaying. Still, I see some on the display that don't match any of the symbols you've provided.

I find it very interesting that the symbol of Och is displayed in bright red.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 22 Dec 2006
Notes left: 295
Last seen at: Leeds, UK
I thought it was interesting that the Seal of Och is in bright red too. I may have found a connection. Each of the different Seals/Angels is represented by their corresponding planet/star.
Och is represented by the Sun, according to the alchemist believes Och can bestow perfect health and long life... Maybe it is a spell to Och that is keeping Alessa alive?

Another interesting aspect is that Claudia talks about the 'Sun' to Heather, (what she says is also in the song 'Sun' on the SH3 soundtrack).

A man offered a serpent to the sun, and prayed for salvation
A woman offered a reed to the sun, and asked for joy
Feeling pity for the sadness that had overrun the earth, god was born from those two people


I'm not entirely sure what these connections mean, but I'll have a think. It certainly seems strange that the Orders myth would says that they prayed to the Sun, which probably, due to the presense of the Seals, means either they prayed to Och (The Angel of the Sun), or to Michael (The Archangel of the Sun).

What does this mean in terms of the Orders God though? Is the God a creation of other heavenly beings?, or are the Order just talking mumbo jumbo :P

I just found a very interesting piece of information regarding Angels that is quite interesting.

Angels are everywhere and you can ask for Angels to assist you with anything you wish. There is no limit! In fact, if no Angel is available for a particular task, an Angel is created as an answer to your wish or prayer, just for you! Yes, the You and the Divine create Angels on request. Angels are God/Goddess making a personal visit, but in a scaled down form. However, the love that they have is just as immeasurable. Remember - Angels are bound by the laws of Free Will. Therefore, they can not assist us in our lives unless we ask them too. So, don’t forget to ask!

Does this mean that the people prayed to Och/Michael the Sun Angels and in return a new Angel was born specifically to aid them?

This raises a very interesting question that I brought up to some extent in another thread. Are the Orders 'Gods' good or bad?
If it is true that their 'God' was created in answer to their prayers to the Sun Angels this would surely mean that they are good? Even though we are lead to believe they are bad.

Another interesting piece of information that I have found:

Angels appear to us with many forms and shapes. Many times the qualities of an Angel are so delicate that they choose female forms or even masculine bodies with female face characteristics.

The Orders 'God' was female. Coincidence?

_________________
My supply fell through...


Last edited by Martee on 12 Dec 2009, edited 1 time in total.

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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 08 Oct 2009
Notes left: 310
While that was an interesting connection, I was thinking something a little more basic.

Och is the spirit of Alchemy, Physics, and Magic. If Dahlia were to pick a favorite, who do you think it would be?

Aside from that simple revelation, I have to stretch this quite a bit to get it to go anywhere else. I'll think about it a little bit more, but I don't want it to sound like I'm severely overanalyzing anything.

EDIT: Most of the order's basic customs have been established (through either memos in Silent Hill 2, surprisingly enough, or Silent Hill 3). Xuchilbara is the God that is worshipped under the cult of Silent Hill, and his followers are called the 'Red Sect' (There is also Lobsil Vith, who's followers are part of the 'Yellow Sect', but the Yellow Sect does not appear in the games, as far as I know). Dahlia is known for not exactly following the cult's teachings, and rather dabbling in all sorts of black magick to further her own power. She simply uses the cult as a vehicle, and the members resent her for it.

Though this is completely retrospective, and probably overanalyzing a bit, I feel that Dahlia was trying to propel herself to the status of the red god, Xuchilbara, in the eyes of the cult. If she was responsible for the birth of God, her praise would be immeasurable. Since Och is basically 'Dahlia in god form', if you will (God of Magic and Alchemy), the symbol of Och displayed in red is basically what Dahlia wishes she could be.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 22 Dec 2006
Notes left: 295
Last seen at: Leeds, UK
This is venturing more into how Angelology relates to Silent Hill.
If you feel I should bring this up in a different topic I'm more than happy to, if not I'll just post here.

This will be a long post, and is just an examination of Angelology, I'm not saying that any of the ideas that I propose are the truth, I'm just giving some ideas to think about.

First of all, as brought up in this topic I am going to assume that the Archangel Michael has some relevance to the Order, since Michael is the Archangel of the Sun. Furthermore we know that Metatron plays a role within the Order.

Both Michael and Metatron are of the Order of Angels called the Seraphim. Also the simple fact that Angels and Archangels are devided up into 'Orders' could be seen as a reference that 'The Order' is strongly based within Angelology.

"Seraphim, their very name means ardor and are in charge of maintaining the presence of the Source of the Whole of Existence within the physical worlds. They are the guardians of the various universes."

Physical Worlds? Various Universes? Could be related to the fact that there are different planes of existance, Otherworld, Foggy World, Real World. A bit of a stretch, but worth a thought.

"The Seraphim are almost always identified with fire-not the burning, painful flames and heat of hell, but the healing flame of Love."

This could be part of the reason why Dahlia's ritual required the burning of Alessa, she might have believed that burning her Child was an act of love which would help to contact the Seraphim. There are other ways that Dahlia could have represented this, such as she could have simply misinterpreted that the Seraphim were not identified with burning, painful flames and believed that they were. No major significance, but still interesting.

"As the first humans awoke and looked around, the only “number” they knew was ONE. Each person perceived one self, one Sun, one Moon, one meal at a time. One was the number of the age.

As humans became more evolved, and looked out into the Universe, they began to perceive Duality. There was night and day, summer and winter, male and female, good and evil. As ages passed and philosophies developed, there was yin and yang. Now TWO was the number of the age, and working with that concept brought people to the idea that, where there is two, neither of the pair can exist without the other. On a planet with no night, there is no meaningful day. In a world without evil, there can be no good."


The last line of this is what interests me the most. In relation to Dahlia burning Alessa and Claudia killing Heathers father, maybe they interpreted it as so that to give birth to a good 'God', they needed to commit acts of pain and suffering.

"RED
Passion, strength, virility, health, physical longevity, protection, defense, attack, energy, victory. Angels of fire, mars, Aries, Leo (scarlet), Scorpio (deep red)"


I post this in regards to why the Seal of Och is the only seal that is displayed in the red on the Television screens. Some of the meanings of the colour red relate to Alessa. Probably just coincidence, but again, worth mentioning.

"Dakinis

Generally when they are referred to in Buddhist literature it is assumed they are devoted to the Truth (Dharma). But the broader meaning of the word is a female (males are called Dakas) spirit who has some freedom but is still bound by their past actions. Thus there are good Angels and bad (or simply confused) Angels. Some people might argue that you couldn't call them an Angel anymore if they're bad, but that's ridiculous since being predictable is not part of anyones long-term nature.

Thus there are worldy Dakinis who are malicious and use their powers to confuse us, to arouse passions that are destructive, and who use their charms for their own selfish purposes. Dakinis can manifest on earth in human form or take birth as a human. These are then called "worldly Dakinis" and I'm sure you've met at least one or two in your lifetime. Women (or men) who seem to be able to simply will things into being. People who are so charming that they seduce whatever they want from the world and enjoy it fully, yet also remain somewhat disattached from the results."



This greatly interests me, and specifically raises the subject of whether or not Alessa was a 'Worldly Dakini'. For one, Alessa can simply will things into being, and if viewed in a certain light she could be seen to charm and seduce whatever she wants from the world.
However, if you believe what you are told by certain people within the games, it would make more sense that the God that is going to be born is in reality, a 'Worldly Dakini'. Hence why people like Dahlia and Claudia could easily be tricked into believe it is a being of Good.

"Metatron
After arriving in heaven he was transformed into a spirit of fire and equipped with 36 pairs of wings as well as innumerable eyes. He resides in the 7th heaven and when evoked appears as a pillar of fire said to be more dazzling than the sun"
.

Metatron has no doubt been discussed a lot. The above instantly made me wonder if Alessa's burning was an act of Dahlia, or was Alessa actually burnt by Dahlia evoking Metatron with her ritual?

Anyways, I hope whoever has read it has found it interesting. As I say, I don't intend this to be a real theory behind the Order as much as it is just an interesting subject to compare. Though with all of the Orders references to Angels there simply has to be quite a lot of connection, and more than just simply, 'Theyre crazy' or 'Dahlia is insane'. :P

I apologise if there are any 'Angelologists' on the site and if I have got any of the above information wrong.
In a final note may I please ask that anyone who replies to this post, make sure they read the whole thing, and do not simply discount it because 'its stupid' etc etc.
Remember these subjects are Religious, and just because they may seem illogical to you, does not mean it is so to others.

_________________
My supply fell through...


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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 08 Oct 2009
Notes left: 310
Wow.

That was a great read. Though I don't think Silent Hill and Angelology are actually intertwined within the game (anymore), now I have no doubts that this very subject was a strong influence on the creation of the first Silent Hill. Though they kind of retconned the cult a little bit in the later games, and turned Dahlia into a bit of a rogue agent (for whatever reason), the cult from the first game when put in this subtext actually makes sense. Since Red Sect/Yellow Sect, Xuchilbara/Lobsil Vith, and any of the other numerous reveals about the cult in the later games were not even an idea in their infancy at the time of the first game, this definitely gives me some food for thought.

Another interesting thing about relating Silent Hill to Angelology is that the entire game becomes a character study of religion, as opposed to just an observation of 'some crazy cult'.

Quote:
"Seraphim, their very name means ardor and are in charge of maintaining the presence of the Source of the Whole of Existence within the physical worlds. They are the guardians of the various universes."


I was personally more interested in 'Maintaining the presence'. Without them, there are no physical worlds, no various universes. The word 'Ardor' is also very interesting. It is derived from the Latin word for Burning, or Heat (Sacrifices by burning to the Angels of Ardor would make sense, no?). A sudden or transitory warmth of feeling. I take this to mean 'A feeling or thought so strong that it overtakes you' (even if it applies to a good feeling), which is the basis for the otherworld. It also means 'Sexual Excitement', which would help explain the sexual subtext present in the alternate reality of the Seraphim.

Quote:
"As the first humans awoke and looked around, the only “number” they knew was ONE. Each person perceived one self, one Sun, one Moon, one meal at a time. One was the number of the age.

As humans became more evolved, and looked out into the Universe, they began to perceive Duality. There was night and day, summer and winter, male and female, good and evil. As ages passed and philosophies developed, there was yin and yang. Now TWO was the number of the age, and working with that concept brought people to the idea that, where there is two, neither of the pair can exist without the other. On a planet with no night, there is no meaningful day. In a world without evil, there can be no good."


This entire passage just reeks of the Order's later beliefs. Look back at the entirety of the song 'Sun'.

In the beginning people had nothing,
Their bodies ached and their hearts held nothing but hatred.
They fought endlessly but death never came
They despaired stuck in the eternal quagmire


Though the passage begins with 'People had nothing', that is literally impossible. Therefore, you can take 'Nothing' to mean 'One'. People had nothing but self, and that's all they could perceive.

A man offered a serpent to the sun,
And prayed for salvation.
A woman offered a reed to the sun,
And asked for joy.
Feeling pity for the sadness that had overrun the earth
God was born from those two people.


Now, the theme of Duality begins to creep into the passage. Not only did God create two, God was born from two. I'll have to look up any particular religious significance (aside from the obvious) of the serpent and the reed, but from here it almost looks like God was born from the presence of Good and Evil.

God made time and divided it into day and night.
God outlined the road to salvation and gave people joy.
And God took endless time away from the people.
God created beings to lead people in obedience to her.


Now, here comes the true connection to the quote. Two becomes the number of the age. People can now perceive the concept of two.

The red God Xuchlibara
The yellow God Lobsil Vith
Many Gods and Angels
Finally God set out to create paradise,
Where people would be happy by just being there.


It's funny, God created two Gods. Perhaps to handle duality; One good, and one evil. Perhaps to take advantage of people's perception of things.

From here, Sun becomes a song about the fall of God, and the need to worship him for his return (!). As such, it kind of loses relevance to the original quote. Even so, up to this point, it's a very strong parallel of fundamentals.

Quote:
"RED
Passion, strength, virility, health, physical longevity, protection, defense, attack, energy, victory. Angels of fire, mars, Aries, Leo (scarlet), Scorpio (deep red)"


I'd say that those are some pretty admirable characteristics. Worthy of worship, even. I wonder if that's exactly how the Order perceives Xuchilbara...It's worth giving some thought to.

Though I have absolutely no problem with you posting that in this thread, I think it's more than deserving of it's own thread. It is very interesting in it's own right, and I think more people should have a chance to see it.


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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19401
Last seen at: #lfk
>I see some on the display that don't match any of the symbols you've provided.
The symbols appear in this order: Aratron, Phaleg, Hagith, Phul, Ophiel, and Och.

I haven't read all of your comments, but for reference's sake I've been into angel/demonology for roughly a decade.

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This post is the property of its author and is not to be used elsewhere without explicit permission from the author.

. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 12 Feb 2009
Notes left: 7982
Last seen at: Nowhere
Hey that's damn interesting, I always knew that those guys were angels but I didn't knew that those symbols on the TV's were their symbols. I'm sorry but I don't have anything to add but yeah it was cool to know that.

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: The symbols on the televisions?

Missing since: 08 Jun 2011
Notes left: 13
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bd36VA3gnYX/
I have no idea how to post images on this site, but I actually ended up getting this tattoo because of this thread...


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