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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Cybil: The Black Queen's Pawn (SPOILERS + Long Theory)

Missing since: 30 Jan 2011
Notes left: 84
Why you say Dahlia controls Cybil, what in the game makes you think that. Aside of she wanting to help Harry, what she would do, and does, anyway, because she is a cop, and a good person.

I don't think Dahlia know who is Cybil in the first place, there is no evidence that points to Dahlia knowing about Cybil before she meets her in the boat.

I still think that is stupid for Dahlia to want to control Cybil to make her do something that she would do willlingly anyway.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Cybil: The Black Queen's Pawn (SPOILERS + Long Theory)
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
Why you say Dahlia controls Cybil, what in the game makes you think that.


*points to the first page* Goodness, man. All your questions have been answered and you're asking me to defend a theory that isn't mine. You say you've read the theory, but you keep asking me things that have already been covered in the original post.

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Aside of she wanting to help Harry, what she would do, and does, anyway, because she is a cop, and a good person.


And yet, she does things that are highly unprofessional and out of character for a cop. If that's because she's willing to break the rules to follow her own ideals in a time of emergency, or because she's a pawn, it's undefined. What is worth noting is that, like Lisa, she shows up exactly when she needs to.

And for some reason, she just gives Harry a plot dump on the town's history for no reason. Just like Lisa. And doesn't know why she brought it up. Just like Lisa.

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I don't think Dahlia know who is Cybil in the first place, there is no evidence that points to Dahlia knowing about Cybil before she meets her in the boat.


She saw the future and knew that atleast Harry was coming by way of gyromancy. It's not hard to think she was aware of Cybil's coming as well. Even if she didn't know she was coming ahead of time, she could have noticed her entry when it happened and took advantage of it during the several minutes where Harry was unconscious.

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I still think that is stupid for Dahlia to want to control Cybil to make her do something that she would do willlingly anyway.


You don't really know anything about what Cybil would do willingly or not. She's a stranger to you and since the theory is speculating that she was under control since we first met her, it means we have no way to predict what is and isn't Cybil's true character. You're arguing based on your own conclusion. It's the equivalent of "The butler can't be the killer because the butler wouldn't want to kill the victim." You have no real basis for saying that.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Cybil: The Black Queen's Pawn (SPOILERS + Long Theory)

Missing since: 30 Jan 2011
Notes left: 84
Sorry, but, the ones that are arguing based in their own conclusions are the people who says Cybil is a pawn of Dahlia, I'm arguing with things from the game, where there isn't even any subtle hint about Dahlia controlling Cybil, and in the first post there isn't any evidence from the game that could point toward Dahlia controlling Cybil.

If the game presents me a character, that acts some way, and later the game says that character was being controlled, then I know that what I have been seeing till that moment wasn't it's real personality, but if the game presents me a character, and in no moment it is revealed, nor even hinted that that character have been being manipulated, then I understanmd that the character personality is its own.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Cybil: The Black Queen's Pawn (SPOILERS + Long Theory)
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
Sorry, but, the ones that are arguing based in their own conclusions are the people who says Cybil is a pawn of Dahlia, I'm arguing with things from the game, where there isn't even any subtle hint about Dahlia controlling Cybil, and in the first post there isn't any evidence from the game that could point toward Dahlia controlling Cybil.


*facepalm* Except yes, there is. Do you know what a Shroedinger's Gun is?

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If the game presents me a character, that acts some way, and later the game says that character was being controlled, then I know that what I have been seeing till that moment wasn't it's real personality, but if the game presents me a character, and in no moment it is revealed, nor even hinted that that character have been being manipulated, then I understanmd that the character personality is its own.


Then like....why did you revive a half-decade old theory that no one's been talking about?

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Cybil: The Black Queen's Pawn (SPOILERS + Long Theory)

Missing since: 30 Jan 2011
Notes left: 84
I didn't know, I know now, but I don't see relation to the subject.

I have revived the thread because I have replayed the game recetly, and I have reading different threads, this among them. And I thought that the theory don't convinve me, and I wanted to say it since this is a forum.

So Droo has his theory, there are people who thinks it makes sense, I don't see some of his claims so clearly. It's fine.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Cybil: The Black Queen's Pawn (SPOILERS + Long Theory)
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Well, I respect your opinion, but I personally don't see much point in reviving a thread just to say you disagree, then not really being open to discussing the idea.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Cybil: The Black Queen's Pawn (SPOILERS + Long Theory)

Missing since: 30 Jan 2011
Notes left: 84
No, I'm open to discussion, but in this point... you, and the followers of the theory are going to follow the theory because it "could be" without needing some type of hint in the actual game that points toward Dahlia controlling Cybil, but I need some hint in the actual game to believe it is possible. I put my thoughts here, hoping that various people discuss them, and give their points of view, but only you and I are discussing the matter, so it can't advance very much :oops:


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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Cybil: The Black Queen's Pawn (SPOILERS + Long Theory)
     
         
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Missing since: 05 Aug 2010
Notes left: 565
Last seen at: Nathan Ave.
^ This thread died in October, 2010. Have you considered the fact that maybe there were no concrete hints to back the theory and there still aren't?

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Cybil: The Black Queen's Pawn (SPOILERS + Long Theory)
     
         
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Missing since: 26 Dec 2004
Notes left: 2560
Last seen at: Insomnia land, where I am Queen!
Quote:
*facepalm* Except yes, there is. Do you know what a Shroedinger's Gun is?

That was Aura's quote. I don't remember how to make it say that. Anyway, I thought Shroedinger had a cat and Occam had a razor, so where did the gun come from? :wink: :mrgreen:
There were quite a few things that popped up in here since the last time I was here that I wanted to comment on or ask questions about.
First, I can still see this theory as valid. I still like it. I also like that Bert stuck as the name of Alessa and Cheryl's rejoined state. :mrgreen:
Did we ever come to some conclusion as to exactly how much magical abilities Alessa and Dahlia had? I thought, since she was doing spells, Dahlia must have at least some level of magical ability, but I remember being told that she didn't. That doesn't matter as much, just curious.
When it comes to Cheryl having power, I wouldn't outright dismiss that like some have. She is half of Alessa's soul, after all. She had no idea Alessa existed or that she could have magic until the 2 girls are recombined into Bert, so Cheryl would be new to magic and not as good at controlling it as Alessa. We can sort of see the same thing in Heather. Up until the events of Silent Hill 3, she didn't know about the cult or a magical town or any such thing, and she certainly doesn't know how to use her power in the game. She had a precognitive dream that ended up leading her to Silent Hill, much like Cheryl felt compelled to go there. I know this is pure speculation on my part, but maybe Cheryl had a dream about Silent Hill as well.
Does anyone else wonder if Alessa ever felt any pain Cheryl may have had, like a scraped knee or something, if Cheryl could feel hers? The whole thing about Heather being a manifestation made me wonder that. I don't agree, but if that were true, what would have happened to Alessa if Cheryl had passed away before they were reunited due to some illness or an accident? If Heather had met some tragic fate before Claudia found her, would she have been revived by Valtiel like nothing happened, or would she stay dead and ruin Claudia's Paradise plan?
Just a few curiosities. :)

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Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject: Re: Cybil: The Black Queen's Pawn (SPOILERS + Long Theory)
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Oct 2010
Notes left: 1446
Last seen at: Chicago
PeachySakura24 wrote:
Quote:
*facepalm* Except yes, there is. Do you know what a Shroedinger's Gun is?

That was Aura's quote. I don't remember how to make it say that. Anyway, I thought Shroedinger had a cat and Occam had a razor, so where did the gun come from? :wink: :mrgreen:


It's from TVTropes. It means "the world of a fictional universe isn't fixed beyond what the author has revealed to the reader." In other words, you can make up whatever crap you want so long as it doesn't contradict anything.

It seems unclear if Dahlia has real magic power or if she just thinks she does. Perhaps what Dahlia thinks is "gyromancy" is actually just the town revealing certain images to her... the town seems to have the tendency to manifest things if people believe strongly enough in them.

Personally I don't think Cheryl had any "power." IMO, originally Alessa had psychic power because her classmates percieved her to be a "witch" and persecuted her for it (probably because her mother was psychotic) and the town made those beliefs into a reality. On the other hand, Cheryl grew up as a normal girl so I don't think she would have any power.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Cybil: The Black Queen's Pawn (SPOILERS + Long Theory)
     
         
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Missing since: 26 Dec 2004
Notes left: 2560
Last seen at: Insomnia land, where I am Queen!
Ah, good old TVTropes and their fantastic voncabulary. I should have known. :D

I agree that it is more than likely that Cheryl had no powers at all, but there seems to me that there could be a small chance that, as half of Alessa's soul, she could have had some kind of power and never knew it. It is more likely that Alessa would not want to burden the other half of her soul with the kind of powers thaqt led to her being in the pickle that forced her to split her soul in the first place, but it is something I never thought about until now.

Also, I thought Alessa's classmates only branded her as a witch in the movie. There is an excellent chance that I am wrong about that though. :D

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Peachy's Predictions on Tumblr
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Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject: Re: Cybil: The Black Queen's Pawn (SPOILERS + Long Theory)
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Oct 2010
Notes left: 1446
Last seen at: Chicago
PeachySakura24 wrote:
Also, I thought Alessa's classmates only branded her as a witch in the movie. There is an excellent chance that I am wrong about that though. :D


Well, if you remember the school desk with nasty things carved into it that you find in Nowhere in Silent Hill 1, it's implied that Alessa was ostracized at school. Probably because of her powers, or because she was perceived to have powers.

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SHH Cult Subscriber
SHH Cult Subscriber
 Post subject: Re: Cybil: The Black Queen's Pawn (SPOILERS + Long Theory)
     
         
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Missing since: 03 Jan 2005
Notes left: 4650
Last seen at: Colorado
Tillerman wrote:
PeachySakura24 wrote:
Also, I thought Alessa's classmates only branded her as a witch in the movie. There is an excellent chance that I am wrong about that though. :D


Well, if you remember the school desk with nasty things carved into it that you find in Nowhere in Silent Hill 1, it's implied that Alessa was ostracized at school. Probably because of her powers, or because she was perceived to have powers.

The desk in the game said "Go home. Drop dead. Thief."
Why thief?

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Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject: Re: Cybil: The Black Queen's Pawn (SPOILERS + Long Theory)
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Oct 2010
Notes left: 1446
Last seen at: Chicago
phantomess wrote:
Why thief?


I have no idea why it says "thief," to be honest. I guess it's just an odd insult.

In Silent Hill 3, you can read this in K. Gordon's notebook:

"There's a girl named Alessa in my class. If your memory is any good, you may remember her. She's the one I said they called a witch. Most likely her mother is
abusing her. I've never seen her come in without some sort of scrape or bruise. Her expression is pitifully dark for a 6-year-old."

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