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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Cybil: The Black Queen's Pawn (SPOILERS + Long Theory)
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11383
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
She's not already dead.

_________________
BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Cybil: The Black Queen's Pawn (SPOILERS + Long Theory)

Missing since: 27 Aug 2010
Notes left: 17
helldescent wrote:
The Adversary wrote:
>Heather and Alessa both demonstrate powers. Heather, Alessa, and Cheryl are all the same being.<
Yet, again, Heather doesn't display any powers, while Alessa's spirit does.

>She's merged with a being that has the same powers, but greater force and/or experience.<
But I thought they were the same person a minute ago.

>Maybe Alessa's trying to jam it, or maybe it's just a bleedover since their minds are more or less totally merged.<
Or maybe Alessa's sending Harry on a wild sheep chase to delay him from her own bidness.

>Show me. Provide me with a citation.<
I have already: "Cheryl's disappearance into the alleyway during the opening came about because Alessa's nightmare had encroached into Harry's dream" (Silent Hill Official Guidebook Complete Edition).

>Also, Alessa is not cruel.<
Alessa wants to destroy herself and everyone else in Silent Hill. Her goal is absolutely not self-preservation because she wants to die: she's suicidal.

technically she is already dead. she just wants to implode the town and anyone involved in her misery ( the order and those who were/are involved)

I thought that Alessa/Cheryl/Bert was still alive right until the end of the game, and that her goal in imploding the town was to both kill herself and punish those who had caused her pain. I kind of figured that part of the reason she could be killed was due to a combination of Harry and Cybil being there and Cheryl within her; that Cheryl wanted her Dad safe to enough of a degree that it weakened the overall being/Bert.

To the general discussion. I've posted this earlier but I'm still interested in counter points: What if Cybil was Cheryl's pawn rather than Dahlia's?


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Moderator
 Post subject: Re: Cybil: The Black Queen's Pawn (SPOILERS + Long Theory)

Missing since: 21 Jul 2003
Notes left: 11978
Last seen at: Nova Scotia, Canada
Alessa/Cheryl/Bert are indeed still alive. Alessa does not die until Incubus rips out her back and she hands Heather to Harry.

I've considered the idea that Cheryl was in control of Cybil, but I don't think she has the power on her own to do that. Especially after Alessa merges with her. All that remains of her is her consciousness within the merged form.

_________________
"I dreamt last night I saw you
A single spark explosion negotiating with the dead
By the bright lights in some ICU on my chest you put your head
and said "There you are.
There you are.
There's my heart..."


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Moderator
 Post subject: Re: Cybil: The Black Queen's Pawn (SPOILERS + Long Theory)
     
         
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Missing since: 15 Apr 2004
Notes left: 11052
Last seen at: In the anals of forum history
Quote:
Alessa does not die until Incubus rips out her back and she hands Heather to Harry.


She's dead (or out of the picture) before all of that never happens.

_________________
Image


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Cybil: The Black Queen's Pawn (SPOILERS + Long Theory)

Missing since: 27 Aug 2010
Notes left: 17
Droo wrote:
Alessa/Cheryl/Bert are indeed still alive. Alessa does not die until Incubus rips out her back and she hands Heather to Harry.

I've considered the idea that Cheryl was in control of Cybil, but I don't think she has the power on her own to do that. Especially after Alessa merges with her. All that remains of her is her consciousness within the merged form.
Just checking.

I don't know. It occurs to me that Cheryl is probably the one spreading weapons and healing items around the town, so why not Cybil? I kind of figured that since Alessa had access to all of her power after reuniting with Cheryl, and based on the couple of times Cheryl reaches out to Harry, that Cheryl would have access to the same power just not really the knowledge of how to use it efficiently or maybe not the will to completely act unto herself.


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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Cybil: The Black Queen's Pawn (SPOILERS + Long Theory)
     
         
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Missing since: 02 Feb 2010
Notes left: 504
Last seen at: Birmingham
Droo wrote:
Alessa/Cheryl/Bert are indeed still alive. Alessa does not die until Incubus rips out her back and she hands Heather to Harry.

^This.
According to Lost Memories:
Good Ending
"Kaufmann shoots Dalhia, and throws the vial of Aphlagotis on the child. The Incubus comes out of her back. Harry defeats the Demon. As fire engulfs the entire area Cheryl/Alessa gives Harry a newborn baby. She shows him an escape route. As Kaufmann tries to follow, he is stopped in his tracks by Lisa Garland who pulls him underneath the grating. Cheryl/Alessa is then swept up by flames."

But there is also a picture with the description:
"After the Incubus is defeated, the Woman appears once again. She presents Harry with a baby."

So if Lost Memories' Good Ending is canon:
Cheryl/Alessa = the Woman
The Woman gives Heather to Harry
Cheryl/Alessa die in the fire.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Cybil: The Black Queen's Pawn (SPOILERS + Long Theory)
     
         
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Missing since: 29 Jun 2009
Notes left: 2301
alessa is somewhere unknown. the final boss isnt alessa. its always her projections

_________________
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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Cybil: The Black Queen's Pawn (SPOILERS + Long Theory)
     
         
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Missing since: 02 Feb 2010
Notes left: 504
Last seen at: Birmingham
I didn't say Alessa was the final boss. I said according to Lost Memories that Cheryl/Alessa was the Woman and the Incubus is the god/final boss. I just used Lost Memories to verify what Droo had said.


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Moderator
 Post subject: Re: Cybil: The Black Queen's Pawn (SPOILERS + Long Theory)

Missing since: 21 Jul 2003
Notes left: 11978
Last seen at: Nova Scotia, Canada
The Woman In White is Alessa transformed. However, Alessa and Cheryl continue to exist within this new entity. It's her but it's not her.

_________________
"I dreamt last night I saw you
A single spark explosion negotiating with the dead
By the bright lights in some ICU on my chest you put your head
and said "There you are.
There you are.
There's my heart..."


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RESPECT
 Post subject: Re: Cybil: The Black Queen's Pawn (SPOILERS + Long Theory)
     
         
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19401
Last seen at: #lfk
Except the Woman in White is god.

_________________
This post is the property of its author and is not to be used elsewhere without explicit permission from the author.

. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Cybil: The Black Queen's Pawn (SPOILERS + Long Theory)
     
         
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Missing since: 29 Jun 2009
Notes left: 2301
The Adversary wrote:
Except the Woman in White is god.

and the incubus is the devil?

_________________
[img]http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee419/silentfog/signature.jpg[/img]


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RESPECT
 Post subject: Re: Cybil: The Black Queen's Pawn (SPOILERS + Long Theory)
     
         
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19401
Last seen at: #lfk
Incubus is also god. They're the same thing.

_________________
This post is the property of its author and is not to be used elsewhere without explicit permission from the author.

. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Cybil: The Black Queen's Pawn (SPOILERS + Long Theory)

Missing since: 27 Aug 2010
Notes left: 17
The Adversary wrote:
Incubus is also god. They're the same thing.
Not quite, Incubus is Dahlia's interpretation of god where as the Incubator is god the way Alessa sees her.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Cybil: The Black Queen's Pawn (SPOILERS + Long Theory)
     
         
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Missing since: 29 Jun 2009
Notes left: 2301
they r 2 different intepretations of god.

_________________
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RESPECT
 Post subject: Re: Cybil: The Black Queen's Pawn (SPOILERS + Long Theory)
     
         
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19401
Last seen at: #lfk
They are the same god.

_________________
This post is the property of its author and is not to be used elsewhere without explicit permission from the author.

. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Cybil: The Black Queen's Pawn (SPOILERS + Long Theory)
     
         
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Missing since: 29 Jun 2009
Notes left: 2301
if they r the same god, then there wouldnt b 2 versions

_________________
[img]http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee419/silentfog/signature.jpg[/img]


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RESPECT
 Post subject: Re: Cybil: The Black Queen's Pawn (SPOILERS + Long Theory)
     
         
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19401
Last seen at: #lfk
"The form of God that is born to the earth changes depending on those who summon it."

Ergo: It's the same entity. When a caterpillar transforms into a butterfly, is it suddenly a different creature?

_________________
This post is the property of its author and is not to be used elsewhere without explicit permission from the author.

. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Cybil: The Black Queen's Pawn (SPOILERS + Long Theory)

Missing since: 27 Aug 2010
Notes left: 17
The Adversary wrote:
They are the same god.

They still aren't quite the same thing. Look at the differences between Old Testament God and New Testament God, same being but very different.


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RESPECT
 Post subject: Re: Cybil: The Black Queen's Pawn (SPOILERS + Long Theory)
     
         
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19401
Last seen at: #lfk
>Look at the differences between Old Testament God and New Testament God, same being but very different.<
Unless you're a Marcionite, which I find highly unlikely, they're the same thing. The two may exhibit different traits—in Silent Hill's case, physically—but they seek to achieve the same thing. In The Order's canon, Metatron and Samael share the same existence, as though they're different sides of the same coin. Incubus and Incubator (the Woman in White) parallel this.

Dahlia even says, of the Woman in White, "This is a god." Lost Memories: Silent Hill Chronicle affirms this asseveration. Not once does anyone, or anything, refer to the varying depictions of god as different gods.

_________________
This post is the property of its author and is not to be used elsewhere without explicit permission from the author.

. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Moderator
 Post subject: Re: Cybil: The Black Queen's Pawn (SPOILERS + Long Theory)

Missing since: 21 Jul 2003
Notes left: 11978
Last seen at: Nova Scotia, Canada
There is no God. It's all been one giant delusion.

_________________
"I dreamt last night I saw you
A single spark explosion negotiating with the dead
By the bright lights in some ICU on my chest you put your head
and said "There you are.
There you are.
There's my heart..."


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