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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
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>So wouldnt the ritual make the real deal?
It did. The Incubus is God according to Dahlia; the Holy Woman in White is God according to Alessa & The Order.

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Missing since: 22 Apr 2006
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Last seen at: Traversing the Portals of Reality
Why was it different according to her? I would almost think it would be inverted in this case, considering Alessa's hatred and all that she's done and been through. I would have thought God would have been the demon according to her and the Holy Woman to Dahlia.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2003
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Last seen at: The Wand'ring Wood
Dahlia's perception of God wasn't the mainstream one that the Order believed. Alessa, being raised with the Order's ideals since birth, knew God as the Woman in White. Dahlia had her own altar set up in the back of Green Lion Antiques. There's a picture of the Incubus above the altar, so this is the image that she worshipped.

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Missing since: 22 Apr 2006
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Last seen at: Traversing the Portals of Reality
Well I'm aware of the altar an such, but I'm asking, why?

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2003
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Last seen at: The Wand'ring Wood
Oh, whoops. My apologies.

Well, for example, my view of God and your view of God. Are they going to be the exact same thing? Not likely, no. Dahlia is a member of the Order and believes in God, yes, but she believes in a different looking God. And since this altar is hidden I guess it's not a very popular one. Or not one she wanted to throw out in the open. Kind of like.. when the Catholic Church adopted the idea that the Sun revolved around the Earth. And (Dear Lord help me, I've forgotten his name) argued that it was, in fact, the opposite - and how the popular belief was what the Church said, because the Church's word was the Be All and End All and anyone who deviated or disagreed wasn't thought too highly of. Perhaps it's the same with The Order - especially since Dahlia was, I believe, in the higher ranks. What kind of image would it send to their followers if one of their High Priestesses believed in a different looking God?

What was it that Vincent said? It's not unsual for people to worship the same God and have different ideas? I'll edit this once I've found the exact quote.

Brother Vincent wrote:
It’s not uncommon for people to worship the same god and still disagree.
While the context of this was to argue that he was very much sane and well in the head, despite being in the same religion as Claudia, I believe it could apply to this situation as well. Also, any major religion could be used as an example. God is a kind and loving man who will look after you in life and shelter you in peace when you die. God is vengeful, terrible, and irate, out to punish the wicked, horrible sinners of the Earth and wants nothing more but to see unrepenting bastards burn in Hell. Quite the polar opposites...

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Missing since: 22 Apr 2006
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Last seen at: Traversing the Portals of Reality
Indeed, but if what came out of Alessa was indeed Dahlia's rendition of God, would the rest of the cult not be forced to accept it? Did Dahlia feel that maybe she could control it? What drove her to believe in this one instead of the rest of The Order's?
This is what I'm having trouble swallowing.

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Hope House Careworker
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Missing since: 16 Apr 2006
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I think it's really unknown why she believed this....like they said...different opions...no one thinks exacly the same, thats what makes us human.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2003
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I think perhaps the rest of the cult would be shit outta luck if Harry wasn't there to stop things. :P I don't know if Dahlia was as overzealous as all that - perhaps she did believe that, being the one who caused the whole thing to come to fruition, she'd be granted some kind of Pass on the whole thing, and I would say it's damn near possible. Both she and Kaufmann seemed to have a power struggle thing going on..

Well, what makes people believe in a different looking God? Personal preferences/perceptions and beliefs. Asking why Dahlia chose to see the God as Incubus is like asking why people belive that Jesus was white when he hailed from the Middle East. It's just what they believe. I don't know what made Dahlia opt for a less than popular view of God. We didn't get that much insight into the rhyme and reason behind her beliefs.

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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 09 Mar 2006
Notes left: 422
Last seen at: Woodside Apts, AZ
Goodnight wrote:
Quote:
The movie was so much better than the games..



...Holy shit. I really can't believe you actually said that.

Me either.... :shock:
I agree with Krist and St. Thomas. Wikipedia is filled with people's different interpretations of the game, as are the official strategy guides, it is all how the writer observes it.

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 24 Apr 2006
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Man i need to play SH 1 again. so then is it supposed to be this Incubus that Heather vomits up in SH 3. My view has just been flipped completly upside down and now I'm having trouble piecing it.


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Missing since: 22 Apr 2006
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Last seen at: Traversing the Portals of Reality
That's not entirely incorrect, she is after all Alessa incarnate.

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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 09 Mar 2006
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Last seen at: Woodside Apts, AZ
:) Are you talking about DAms comment?

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Hope House Careworker
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Missing since: 16 Apr 2006
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OK...im sorry for this inconvienent burst....but I just realized something...after Dahlia merged Alessa's soul (her astral form or w/e) with her burnt body and became the Holy Women in White....and in the Good Endings *Kauffman comes and throws the unknown red liquid at the Holy Mother* Dahlia's image of the god is exiled out of the other god....this brings up more questions...
1) How could this happen when the red liquid makes demons come out of the hosts its controlling...(like the Docter and Nurse Puppets and Cybel)

2) I know the Kauffman had some knowledge to this..and I think he made the red liquid to do this incase Dahlia back stabbed him...which she did...

3) When he threatened to throw the red vial at the holy mother, Dahlia screamed "No!" or something like it...what could this mean? She knows about the effects of the red liquid....but didn't exacly know what would happen because even she didn't know it would produce the Incubus...perhaps the red liquid destroys or hurts the supernatural creature inside a host?

I'm sorry for just throwing this out.....for it isn't that relevent to the subject..but it just came to my mind after beating Silent Hill today...(again of course) :wink:

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2003
Notes left: 12943
Last seen at: The Wand'ring Wood
I can only answer #3. Dahlia certainly knew about the effects of the Aglaophotis - in fact she calls it by its name, and destroyed it once before:

Quote:
Kaufmann: All I had to do was plant is somewhere for you to find. And you ? well – and it kept you busy. Hah! You’re easy! And there’s more where this came from.
Dahlia: Stop it!
Harry: Huh? What the?
Dahlia: (laughs all crazy like)
Kaufmann: What on earth…? That’s not supposed to…


Considering Kaufmann's reaction to the appearance of Incubus, and Dahlia's triumphant cackle, one could deduce that the Aglaophotis was not supposed to bring forth Incubus. Why the Aglaophotis ejected the Incubus from the Holy Woman in White, I do not know - perhaps to weaken it further? The Holy Woman in White doesn't die, considering that in the endings where Kaufmann throws the Aglaophotis on Her she comes back to give Harry the baby. So.. my assumption would be that the Aglaophotis somehow split God's essence. But once again, this is only speculation and I'm quite as stummed as you are.

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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
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>How could this happen when the red liquid makes demons come out of the hosts its controlling...
The aglaophotis is used to dispel evil spirits--or, really, any kind of spirit, depending on one's perception. The Incubus, though Dahlia's vision of God, is still, essentially, a parasite. I believe that It's a representation of the two halves from which it was born: Cheryl

She felt so much hatred for the world because of what happened to her that she created a child out of this despair & misery. All of that contempt, that animosity, led to the "birth" of Cheryl. What was left: the innocence of Alessa's child. Thus: The Holy Woman in White.

>I know the Kauffman had some knowledge to this..
Kaufmann wasn't entirely cognizant of what would occur if he used the aglaophotis. He assumed--probably because Dahlia lied to him as well--that by using it, God would die. He learned otherwise--the hard way.

On the other hand, Dahlia acted as though she had no idea what would happen either. Frankly, I don't think she did know what would happen, but, ultimately, it worked out to her advantage.

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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I may be wrong but I"m sure that in lost memories it wasn't called Samuel.....I'm sure it was Incubus.
[spoiler] Alessa in her Holy mother form (the boss you fase in the bad endings was named the incubator)[/spoiler]
I'm gonna follow SH:LM since it was made by the creators so the only real name we have is the incubus and another thing is that t said that it is what Dahlia/Alessa interperated Incubus to look like and thats why Incubus looks different in SH3. The reason incubus could be killed was taht it ws not complete.



EDIT: SORRY I never noticed someone already said the thng about Incubus and LM


Last edited by Anonymous on 27 Apr 2006, edited 1 time in total.

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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
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Please read the rest of this thread. Silent Hill Chronicles never states that the Holy Woman in White isn't God. And: What occurs in the games takes precedence over any other material.

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Hope House Careworker
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Missing since: 16 Apr 2006
Notes left: 639
St. Thomas wrote:
>How could this happen when the red liquid makes demons come out of the hosts its controlling...
The aglaophotis is used to dispel evil spirits--or, really, any kind of spirit, depending on one's perception. The Incubus, though Dahlia's vision of God, is still, essentially, a parasite. I believe that It's a representation of the two halves from which it was born: Cheryl.


..I just dont get it....it doesnt make any sense...how could the "aglaophotis" rid out a wretched creature that never really exsisted Alessa?......mmm...This isnt really the right way to word my question in my head...ok...ill try with this....if Dahlia..was doing the ritual..why didnt the merging with Alessa's Spirit and her body become the Incubus in the first place since she was the one doing the ritual? It just doesnt make sense to me that a creature came out of no where from the aglaophotis...we dont even know if Alessa new about Dahlia's belief..Ugh

To sum it all up..im trying to say that I dont understand how a god can come out of another god from a liquid that exiles spirits..(we also have to know that just because the Incubus is ugly..that it isnt more evil then that Incubator, the incubator was just as destructive as the Incubus)

Do you people under stand what im trying to ask?

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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19401
Last seen at: #lfk
>we dont even know if Alessa new about Dahlia's belief..
Of course she does. She's seen praying at the altar that Dahlia made beneath Green Lion Antiques.

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This post is the property of its author and is not to be used elsewhere without explicit permission from the author.

. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Hope House Careworker
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Missing since: 16 Apr 2006
Notes left: 639
St. Thomas wrote:
>we dont even know if Alessa new about Dahlia's belief..
Of course she does. She's seen praying at the altar that Dahlia made beneath Green Lion Antiques.


Um...sorry to be a nuisence....but I don't remember EVER seeing this..... :?
if you mean the time when she was walking in the Anique Store when it was nightmare mode for a small memory sequece (Forgot when you see her do that....) That doesn't prove anything...

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