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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Creative Freedom and The Collective
     
         
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Missing since: 30 Dec 2005
Notes left: 115
Last seen at: L.G.C.
I'm aware that a discussion like this risks falling into total hearsay and conjecture laced arguments based on what fleeting pieces of information we know ('known knowns'), but I felt I should at least pose the question (a known unknown) and that is - How much creative freedom over the world of Silent Hill do we think that the Collective have been allowed by the top brass in Konami HQ? They (Konami) must know that SH is one of thier biggest franchises of late and so you do have to wonder how savvy they're being in allowing the Collective to run the project considering thier past games-making record.
Another way to phrase what I am asking is this - How much of the SH5 project do we beleive The Collective has 'inherited' from Team Silent's work on it? For example, is the notorious 'sunny Place gone wrong' setting Akira Yamaoka mentioned last year still in the equation? Or has it been scrapped entirely? How much of the work of team Silent has been carried over? Do we know if they've been allowed to begin from scratch or have certain 'guidelines' been given to the team from above that they have to 'stick to', such as: 'make these bits like the movie' and
'make it more X part from this SH game'?


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Rosewater Park Attendant
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Missing since: 04 Feb 2007
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I'm assuming there may be certain guidlines they need to stick to. SH is known for certain things (ie. specific weapons, items, etc). I assume the creators would need to know something about SH so they don't stray too far away from what the game is like. It's not like they can do whatever they want. We're talking about a game that is part of a series, you know.

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 09 Apr 2005
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As long as they don't pull a Devil May Cry 2, it can't be too bad.


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Woodside Apartments Janitor
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Missing since: 26 Apr 2004
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Last seen at: Lakeside Amusement Park
The Collective impressed Konami so much that they got the job rights to create SHV. Konami held interviews and such from different dev teams interested in creating the next gen Silent Hill. The Collective did the best (plus the only team to have a gameplay demo) so they aquirred the rights to make it. I'm assuming they have total control on the story line and what-not, but have to stick to the guidelines of Silent Hill Mythology. So its basically both creative freedom, yet having to stay within the boundaries of what would occur based upon Silent Hill and its boundaries. Get it?

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 23 Jan 2007
Notes left: 116
Last seen at: Chicago
I think that The Collective are under the same "do what you want-just don't fuck it up" clause that 0rigins was under. Since Akira Yamawhatthefuck is overseeing the project, I think it's safe to say that they'll pull the plug on The Collective if they start to go astray. They did the same thing and overhauled 0rigins when it started to become RE4 right?

As for the Team Silent's "normal sunny day gone wrong" idea, I don't think The Collective are working with that. From what we've seen, The Collective are going to go the safe route and stick to the SH basics for this installment, only making changes/improvements to smaller, less important features like combat and graphics; and quite frankly I don't blame them. If they were to try something radically different like the sunny day gone wrong scenario, they would get flamed up and down by the fanbase for fucking up their precious franchise.

If SHV proves sucessful and The Collective are allowed to work on future installments, then maybe they'll branch out and work on alternative ideas. But first, they're going to have to prove themselves capable of continuing the series, and SHV is going to serve as their proving grounds.

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 30 Dec 2005
Notes left: 115
Last seen at: L.G.C.
jamie wrote:
If SHV proves sucessful and The Collective are allowed to work on future installments, then maybe they'll branch out and work on alternative ideas. But first, they're going to have to prove themselves capable of continuing the series, and SHV is going to serve as their proving grounds.


That's a very good point that I had not considered - that they'd have to do a 'normal' Silent Hill game first in order to demonstrate that they 'Can do what the fanbase currently expects of a SH game' before being allowed off the leash a bit to explore SH4-like perspectives on the series in another game.

Personally, I'd like them to try doing something a bit off the wall for this game, like introducing a new slant on the mythology/manifestation of the otherworld as SH4 tried (and failed?) to do, or at least alter the standard gameplay scenario somewhat (person stuck in misty/hell SH with a flashlight and an iron bar) and make it a bit more mysterious and involving, not 'run of the mill'.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 23 Jan 2007
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Last seen at: Chicago
I totally agree with you 19pack; I'd love to see further expansion of the SH experience. Unfortunately, as about five minutes of browsing these forums will prove, a large amount of the SH fanbase can be an ugly, nasty lot. If The Collective were to try anything remotely different with SHV...oh dear lord...I can already imagine the barrage of "OMG!! the colective sux! they ruind sillent HIll forevr!" threads that would flood the forums.

Hell, the game isn't anywhere close to release and people are already bitching about it here:
THE GRAFIX SUCK!!11!! THEIR IMPROVEING THE FIGHTING ITS GONNA BE RE4!!!

If they play it safe with SHV and it's sucessful with the fans, then it's safe to say that they will be allowed to work on future installments, and that's when we'll see some experimentation and expansion with the series.

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Woodside Apartments Janitor
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Missing since: 11 May 2006
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der Morgenstern Czigany wrote:
I'm assuming there may be certain guidlines they need to stick to.


They can't do any worse than Silent Hill 4 production in the fact that there was no fog, linear gameplay, repetetive gameplay, and horrible cutscenes.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 02 May 2006
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Creative liscense is bad, bad bad. I'm going to hope they don't think that means rewriting all the things that made Silent Hill what it is today. Well with the exception of elements from part 4. :wink:


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 30 Dec 2005
Notes left: 115
Last seen at: L.G.C.
Quote:
I totally agree with you 19pack; I'd love to see further expansion of the SH experience. Unfortunately, as about five minutes of browsing these forums will prove, a large amount of the SH fanbase can be an ugly, nasty lot. If The Collective were to try anything remotely different with SHV...oh dear lord...I can already imagine the barrage of "OMG!! the colective sux! they ruind sillent HIll forevr!" threads that would flood the forums.

They'll be negative reaction to any new Silent Hill game anyway. We've had naysayers lambasting each new installment for 'killing the franchise' for every game since SH2 now, what with the 'general consensus' towards SH4: The Room and SH 0rigins (thus far).
The trouble with a series like Silent Hill is that in order to survive and evolve it has to defy what the majority of the fan's define as being a 'Silent Hill' game. I beleive that many people do not know what they 'want' from a Silent Hill game until they actually see it. What makes a great SH experience has little to do with whether or not it will be pitch black all the time with a torch, or whether you can again run around foggy streets getting pulled into twisted and bloody Otherworlds.

Nobody has to agree with me, but the general sense I get is that what the most expectant SH fan wants from any new SH game is an assurance of quality, assurance of maintaining the series' signature 'feel', even if it means giving us that experience in different ways to what we're used to.

Yeah, look at Silent Hill 4. If you'd suggested to a fan of the series before it came out that the newest installment has done away with the torch and radio, and isn't even set in Silent Hill, they'd likely think that this would equal the worst game ever. Heh, now unfortunately, Silent Hill 4 did not scrub up as well as the previous entires in the series game-play wise, and so a good few people were led to believe that this was because of the lack of those things I mention. In fact, they were some of the best things about Silent Hill 4. What made SH4 not as good as the games that came before it was actually more boring and conventional things like the terrible camera and controls, lackluster cut scenes (hence the over reliance of telling the story through memos) and extremely lazy lazy level design after about halfway through. All the neat new things that the developers were trying to achieve with the game were ignored and/or thrown in on the list of reasons why the game sucked, and quite unfairly so. I think SH4 could have been the best game in series had the developers another year to 18 months to fix the parts that were broken.

I think The Collective can learn a lot from SH4...not just how to avoid some of the crucial mistakes that Team Silent made with SH4 but also as an example of how taking a risk on the series is worth it even if it doesn't fully work out as planned. I would rather play a SH game that tries something new in order to frighten and unsettle us but doesn't quite pull it off over a repetition of what has come before with shinier graphics and a gimmicky surface gameplay decisions any day, as I'm sure many of you will agree.

The biggest threat the SH series faces at the moment is the curse of ever-diminishing returns, and I would hope that The Collective have been granted lisence to, and (much more importantly) will really want to bring something new to the table that many of us may never have ever considered would work for a SH game until they reveal that actually, it can. While I don't fault The Collective's eagerness to make SH5 (judging by the effort they have put into the producing and what they said in the EGM video) for a second, I believe that from what they have shown us so far, we all have every right to be doubting and questioning what degree of fanboyism they are approaching the design and development of the game with, especially when what they have choose to show us of the game so far is essentially more of the same (not good). That video of the bathroom peeling away to reveal the Other world followed by the entrance of the Nurse was about as subtle and unnerving as a cumshot.


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Moderator
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Missing since: 09 Aug 2007
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Last seen at: Federative Republic of Butts
I don't like to judge until I play, but I have to admit what I've seen seems to be ripped right out of the movie/ previous titles.

Then again, I've only really seen 30 second preview shots that may well never make it into the game/be reworked.

Until I see more screenshots/'game play' then I think I'll stay cautiously optimistic.

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 02 May 2006
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It confuses me sometimes why people insist that sequels must change basic principles. Wouldn't it make more sense to try a different game rather than a sequel in that case? Of course many fans, myself included want to feel we are in the same world. Camera work, controls, little signature elements such as the flashlight/radio. They belong in Silent Hill.


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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 22 Aug 2003
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They better make a lot of original material. SH0 kinda has an excuse for recycling some stuff (it being a prequel and all), but if they just try to make this Silent Hill 2 "2"... no.


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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Missing since: 23 Dec 2006
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Last seen at: Blackpool UK
I think the transition of Foggy-Otherworld is good! they have done it because they are able to, Silent Hill 3 couldnt really of handled that.

As long as it sticks to the storys of previous games I am a happy smilie :D


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 10 May 2006
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Last seen at: My Slinky! My cuddly little pet Slinky! *sobs*
Quote:
Yeah, look at Silent Hill 4. If you'd suggested to a fan of the series before it came out that the newest installment has done away with the torch and radio, and isn't even set in Silent Hill, they'd likely think that this would equal the worst game ever. Heh, now unfortunately, Silent Hill 4 did not scrub up as well as the previous entires in the series game-play wise, and so a good few people were led to believe that this was because of the lack of those things I mention. In fact, they were some of the best things about Silent Hill 4. What made SH4 not as good as the games that came before it was actually more boring and conventional things like the terrible camera and controls, lackluster cut scenes (hence the over reliance of telling the story through memos) and extremely lazy lazy level design after about halfway through. All the neat new things that the developers were trying to achieve with the game were ignored and/or thrown in on the list of reasons why the game sucked, and quite unfairly so. I think SH4 could have been the best game in series had the developers another year to 18 months to fix the parts that were broken.

You make a good point- the whole idea of SH4 being away from Silent Hill itself was trying to make the horror scarier. If it's just a place, you can avoid it, but if the horror can take affect anywhere, anytime... they just didn't quite make it work. Perhaps, as you mention, had they had more time, they could have worked the level design harder, or at least reworked those cutscenes...

Let's keep in mind that this new group wanted to pick up the project because they're fans, too. This may keep them objective in terms of what they change and what they don't. An original creator of something can do what he/she wants with it, because it is theirs, and they will be happy with it no matter what. A fan, however, is more inclined to want to pay tribute to that which made them a fan to begin with. In that light, perhaps there is hope- they'll understand that certain elements make the game a part of the Silent Hill franchise, but that it's more than just fog, a flashlight, a radio and the creepy-weird things what go "BOO". There's something in the psychological aspects of SH2 that made it so loved, and I think they understand that, from what I've read. As stated, we all hope this won't be SH2 Part II- The Pillow's Revenge!. But there are aspects that I would hope they can recapture, rather than recreate, if you see what I'm saying.

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