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 Post subject: Silent Hill 5: Cons (What you don't like)

Missing since: 09 Jun 2005
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Last seen at: Kentucky
This thread is for cons, not pros. There is another thread dedicated to the pros. All posts made here that should be posted in the pros thread will be removed.


This is for EVERYONE'S sanity.

Please do not come into this thread only to say "I wish everyone would stop hating on this game". If you're going to "hate" this is the place to do so! But, please be advised that we will remove (and give warnings when needed) any posts that are considered flamming. Be respectful, this thread can be locked down at any time, keep that in mind.


The following are topics that are now closed. Please do not repeat what you have said in these threads here. USE these threads as a references.


http://www.silenthillforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=13089

http://www.silenthillforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=13259

http://www.silenthillforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=13346

http://www.silenthillforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=13175

http://www.silenthillforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=13234


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 10 Dec 2005
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Last seen at: Austin, Texas
The only con I can think of from what I can see is that the fact that they are using a lot of what we already saw in the movie in this new game (i.e twitching nurses, the bathroom transformation sequence). I'm a little hesitant that its just gonna be a new story in that same Silent Hill we saw in the movie....I think people would get sick of that.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 14 Jan 2004
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Last seen at: Moon base #25
sizzleguy05 wrote:
The only con I can think of from what I can see is that the fact that they are using a lot of what we already saw in the movie in this new game (i.e twitching nurses, the bathroom transformation sequence). I'm a little hesitant that its just gonna be a new story in that same Silent Hill we saw in the movie....I think people would get sick of that.


I have to agree 100% there~
I love how the game looks, but them taking the ash in the fog (wich has nothing to do with the silent hill game), and the nurses, and the pealing walls seems so dumb.
This is there chance to spred there wings and show what they can do.... not just what they can copie.

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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 25 Sep 2003
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Last seen at: Right behind you...
Yeah, but here's to hoping that they come up with something much more original as well. I liked how they showed that they can graphically copy the movie, but I'd like to see that kept to as much of a minimum as possible.

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Gravedigger
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Missing since: 05 Jul 2004
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Last seen at: Orlando, Florida
Well, I do worry, but I think if done tactfully it could still be good. I mean, the visual effects for the movie are pretty cool - even though the movie sucked - and it's really neat to see it done in game, but yeah I'm afraid that they will go the way of the movie which is to have a shit story.

Also, they seem to really like the movie's character model of Pyramid Head - I am afraid he will show up in the game...I am really afraid that pyramid head in any manifestation will show up in the game. I love him, but he's exclusive to SH2 and needs to stay that way.

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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 23 Sep 2007
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Last seen at: Happy land
I have to agree with all of you. It's great they're putting this stuff into the game, but I hope they can keep it original. Especially since, as a site linked in one of the closed threads:

Quote:
Among others, Akira Yamaoka has said that the story and "theme" of Silent Hill V will be similar to Silent Hill 2. Fans of the series have been quick to notice that Alex's surname, Shepherd, is the same as James Sunderland's wife in Silent hill 2, Mary Shepherd-Sunderland. Perhaps the relation to Silent Hill 2 was more literal than we thought? Or maybe its one of those "connections" between Silent Hills which the fans love. We'll find out soon enough.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 24 Jun 2007
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i too was put off by the whole "peeling walls in the bathroom as the last stall opens and a monster comes out"... exactly the way it happened in the movie.

i hope there isn't some big escort thing with elle you have to do like in SH4, either.

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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Missing since: 25 Sep 2007
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my only worries are that the art style and story may not be able to match the pure insanity of the previous games(cuz what's more insane that the Japanese? :P )


oh yeah and PLEASE don't add any stuff from the movie(like saying Silent Hill is a mining town) because that would totally screw up the games continuity


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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Missing since: 16 Apr 2006
Notes left: 886
Last seen at: Bath/London UK
I really don't think that it actually look that much like Silent Hill. I know its early days, but all the textures and monsters just look so clean and sharp. Needs a lot more grime, filth and ruffness.

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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 23 Sep 2007
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Last seen at: Happy land
Breaka wrote:
I really don't think that it actually look that much like Silent Hill. I know its early days, but all the textures and monsters just look so clean and sharp. Needs a lot more grime, filth and ruffness.
So what you're trying to say is... Needs more gore? o.o

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 18 May 2007
Notes left: 24
Last seen at: Silent Hill
The only thing I dont like about SHV is that it is an American developer... they dont understand Japanese psychological horror, if they do then it will still be Americans trying to mimic the real deal. Team Silent should be working on this. They made the damn series what it is! It should be the same people who made SH2... even down to the same damn janitor! I want the feel of SH2 to come back.

Also, I guess I'd agree with others about the likeness with the movie... we saw it already, it sucked, and we want originality.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 04 Oct 2007
Notes left: 6
Last seen at: North Bend NE
I know it's a early build of the game so this issue will be most likely cleared up but I really hope that the grapics get vamped up from what we've seen in the trailers, and I also hope that there won't be "The lock is broken, I can't open the door" messages, even though it's already in one of the trailers

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 04 Oct 2007
Notes left: 6
Last seen at: North Bend NE
Sorry I mean "The lock is broken, I can't open the door" messages 20 times in a row

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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 19 Jun 2007
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Last seen at: Neely's.
^yeah, they could just say that once and then say "nope. door's stuck" after that.
i'm okay with a return of pyramid head, as long as it's not modeled after the movie OR sh2. some new mutant PH would be awesome.

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 04 Oct 2007
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Oh a new pyramid head would be awesome, and I agree with you themudgopher, a new pyramid head that would be insane

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Mar 2004
Notes left: 3526
Last seen at: Waco, Texas
Silent Hill has pretty much been a japanese style horror game influenced by american style horror......SH5 is a japanese style horror game influenced by american style horror...made by an American team....yeah, I'm really gonna like this one... >. >

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Hope House Careworker
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Missing since: 20 Jun 2006
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Sullivan, Walter wrote:
Silent Hill has pretty much been a japanese style horror game influenced by american style horror......SH5 is a japanese style horror game influenced by american style horror...made by an American team....yeah, I'm really gonna like this one... >. >
It seems to be to be for of a American Style horror influenced by Japanese in SHV's case.

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 02 May 2006
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Don't like the way their treating the nurses. Every incarnation should be shaped by the perception of the one Silent Hill draws from. In SH2 and the movie it made sense. James was sexually nuts, and Alessa would have viewed the adult female nurses as some type of sexual pinacle compared to her burned child body. Thus in both cases the nurses have exagerated boobs/legs.

Now in 5, they just ripped em, rather than shapping them to fit Alex's mind. Maybe he viewed nurses like that, pinup girls. But it would be very nice if he didn't, just to avoid repeating what's already been done twice. (or three times, think someone said Origins did the same thing?) Same thing about them flocking to light.. why in the hell do they do that in 5? The nurses are some of the most dangerous enemies in Silent Hill. Alessa's strong influence on the town left them bound to the hospital, where they shall probably exist as long as the town does.

Every game they get stronger, smarter. Yet now their idiots that can't avoid a table lamp? I'm going to be infuriated if they are turned into nothing more than puzzle pieces. The lumping them in one area ruined that part of the movie. Don't make the same mistake with the game.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 14 Oct 2004
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Last seen at: In the Cave of Rendezvous
The cons, and these are serious cons:

1 The collective is making the graphics "dynamic" instead of "static"
This will take away the "arty" feeling of the images. The light and enviroment will not feel like a Rembrant painting and the graphics will feel more technical then artistic. The previous games utilized the "making something ugly, beautiful" style that directors like David Fincher made with films like Se7en and Fight Club. The dynamic graphic engine will create some massive epic effects but is that really what Silent Hill is about? It's especially interesting that games like Resident Evil, that is known for it's action approach to horror, uses static graphics for their next game; Resident Evil 5. As a sidenote to that, the early images of Resident Evil 5 looked far better then the early images of Silent Hill 5, mainly because of the fact that Resident Evil 5 uses static instead of dynamic graphics.
What should The Collective do?
I'm hoping for a total change into static graphics to go back to the artistic feel that is a core element of Silent Hill. If they have to have the dynamic engine, they need to make a kind of mix, or else the images will become dead and boring.

2 The close connection/resemblence to the "Silent Hill Movie"
Having this connection and resemblence to things in the Silent Hill movie speaks heavely about how low the creativity is at The Collective. It's one thing to be inspired by other works of art and popular culture and to steal or use an exact copy of something. Best example is the video of the nurse coming out of the toilet booth, that is an exact copy from the scene in the movie.
I mean, what is The Collective thinking here? That approach is clearly out of making the franchise appeal to an audience that isn't embracing works of art and instead want the cool features that the movie had. Nurses are also exactly the same as in the movie. The previous games even had differences between the nurses in each game.
There are so many clichés and uncreative things that could be spotted from what The Collective said in interviews and what could be seen in the videos.
What should The Collective do?
Take away everything that is a direct steal from the movie. This game isn't "Silent Hill: The movie: The game", it's Silent Hill 5, a new story, were things should be new and original. I would have complained even if they used copies of previous monsters in the serie, so it's not just about the connection to the movie. They need to use a better art-director that has the same approach to design as teamsilent. It doesn't have to be the same as teamsilent, but it needs to be the same approach to art.

3 Combat system should not be a focus
The Collective have stated numerous times that they will not focus on combat; still, in the interview, they got all excited when questions came to the combat system. Looking back at the "making of" docs about Silent Hill 2 and 3, teamsilent never spoke of combat, because the main focus was the Story and "psychology" of the game. The atmosphere has always been more important then the combat. The dynamic graphics and the way they talk about the combat, it's clear that it will have more action this time. It will be more "epic", then close to the characters. Silent Hill is all about characters, story and atmosphere. That is the three core elements that is combined into what Silent Hill is known for. Going away from that isn't creative and original, it's making Silent Hill something it's not. Originality and creativity should come from versions of those three core elements. You can make something totally new without loosing them. I could make a movie with the same core elements and the movie will feel like Silent Hill, while not being it.
What should The Collective do?
Go through the gameplay and compare it to the atmosphere of the previous games. If the atmosphere is more actionpaced, they need to change the combat system and reduce it.

4 This is speculation, but, The Collective seems to not focus on storytelling
Having a good story isn't the same as telling a good story. The storytelling should be the main focus. Silent Hill is mostly based upon how the characters behave between eachother, their backstories and the atmosphere of the cutscenes. The slow pace of the storytelling is of a Tarkovsky quality and I have little hope in that The Collective draws atmospheric inspiration from movies like that. I believe that The Collective will focus on a faster tempo, which will strangle the pace and storytelling.
One important thing when talking Silent Hill is "Silence is more important then sounds". Akira said this about the sounddesign, but it's also very important for storytelling. What characters don't say is more important then what they say; it's a basis for all good storytellers in cinema and theatre. If the dialogue is written without this important storytelling part, it will loose it's soul and life. It will become a cliché.
What should The Collective do?
Collaborate with a teamsilent director or a director that isn't from the gaming world.
Silent Hill 2 hired a storytelling advisor on this part and that showed. The Collective should do the same. Silent Hill is all about the story. It's more about using the interactive parts to create a higher level of horror, then creating just a game.

I'm basing these things on anylizing the interviews, what they said and how they said it, rather then just basing it on the gameplay videos.

I have more opinions, but those are more details then core elements.

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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Missing since: 16 Apr 2006
Notes left: 886
Last seen at: Bath/London UK
The main character looks like he is some kind of robot. He only has one facial expression, and in that crappy toliet scene he just stands there motionless like an egg.

He sure aint no Heather Mason!

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