Deputy Wheeler (have you noticed that he's black?)

Poor Alex ... his momma don't seem to like him much. We wonder why in here ...

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BloodRedScarlet
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Post by BloodRedScarlet »

Chrism~ wrote:The first time through the game I thought, "who thought that it was ok to put this retard in the game?". It's like what Yahtzee (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/ ... Homecoming) says, you get the choice to
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save him or let him die, and you can't press that let him die button fast enough, and the game actually punishes you for not saving him. I think that it was worth it though
But overall I don't have another choice but than to ignore him, and by now I have. I just don't hope that the next decent Silent Hill game does the same kind of mistake.
Hmmm, my net fails but I'll watch that when I can! You really didn't like him? It was a nice break from the other cast (Cranky Curtis, Jackass of a mayor Bartlett, Silly Elle) bringing in paranoid Rambo wheeler wasn't that bad. Although, the whole comic relief thing is most likely true since he did make me smile and grin. :roll:

I kinda wanted to ask you...would you be interested in seeing a male lead that wasn't white? provided they pulled his character off nicely? I mean, Wheeler's the first 'black' guy and it seems the response is really negative. It makes me wonder if they'll ever consider making more characters of color again...=/

and I just thought randomly...what if the main 'bad guy' was black? Would that have started controversy? I'm just curious as to whether people dislike Wheeler as a character or the fact he's character was portrayed that way while being black. If he was white, would we still feel he was too 'stereotypical'? :(

I thought that Elle's reaction was quite understandable. Everything around her was falling apart, people where disappearing, the few left where acting strange and her reality was turning into a secluded limbo and she was right in the middle of it.

I personally think that she was trying to cope with what was going on by holding onto what she knew and actively trying to pursuit it in some more or less passive way. Perfectly understandable as it's a normal psychological behavior pattern weather it's reasonable or not.


Hmm, I understand what you mean. it was sorta like her way of taking control of the situation by doing something? Even if it wasn't helping? I kinda have more respect for her now. ;D I agree a bit with Arsonist. I don't think she should've been such a bitch to Alex. But then again, she is a woman and they are hard to understand. :wink:
His whole act seemed very Hollywood, the fact Wheeler is an immortal badass wielding a shotgun with unlimited ammo that can kill any enemy with one hit while he's sprouting up his one-liners really shatters the idea of "two silly kids caught in a trap".
But doesn't that make him even more realistic? maybe he's watched one too many cop action movies? :lol: And you know how 'kids' like to act badass even when they're scared shitless.(even grown men like to act tough when they're scared, don't they? It's really charming.)

Although the unlimited ammo thing...I didn't pay attention to that. Did we even fight alongside him long enough to know he had unlimited ammo? What about Alex? Who else can carry an Axe, knife, steel pipe, circular saw, dagger, etc all at once? :roll:
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Post by Deadbolt »

I kinda wanted to ask you...would you be interested in seeing a male lead that wasn't white? provided they pulled his character off nicely? I mean, Wheeler's the first 'black' guy and it seems the response is really negative. It makes me wonder if they'll ever consider making more characters of color again...=/

and I just thought randomly...what if the main 'bad guy' was black? Would that have started controversy? I'm just curious as to whether people dislike Wheeler as a character or the fact he's character was portrayed that way while being black. If he was white, would we still feel he was too 'stereotypical'?
It's not that he was black that's the problem, it's that he was a black stereotype.
But doesn't that make him even more realistic? maybe he's watched one too many cop action movies? Laughing And you know how 'kids' like to act badass even when they're scared shitless.(even grown men like to act tough when they're scared, don't they? It's really charming.)
How is it more realistic for a guy to watch cop action movies and then be an immortal rambo who can kill supernatural monsters with one bullet a pop?
Although the unlimited ammo thing...I didn't pay attention to that. Did we even fight alongside him long enough to know he had unlimited ammo? What about Alex? Who else can carry an Axe, knife, steel pipe, circular saw, dagger, etc all at once?
Wheeler never even reloads. Ever. Atleast Alex has precedent as a Silent Hill protagonist.
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Post by Skele »

^The one constant in this thread, is that no one has made a strong argument for why Wheeler fits a Black stereotype. I have to answer RedScarlet's question by saying yes, i think that Wheeler's skin color is what's caused this whole controversy.

I'm not saying that Wheeler doesn't fit Hollywood's portrayal of a hero/badass cop, because he kinda does. with his cheesy (yet funny to some) one liners, and his badassery by blasting away at everything in sight, it's hard to argue against it. However there’s really nothing that he does (aside from the way he says shit, which is something some of us Black folks do, although I’ve heard plenty of people who weren’t Black say it the same way) that fits the stereotype of a Black man/person.

It’s not like "you cuff him, and i'll read him his rights” or “after this, im buying the first round and the second” are sayings that derived from Black culture. Some folks are really just blowing this way out of proportion.

and are we really going to bitch about realism in a silent hill game?
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Post by BloodRedScarlet »

Hmmm...Okay, I think I get the anger now.
How is it more realistic for a guy to watch cop action movies and then be an immortal rambo who can kill supernatural monsters with one bullet a pop?
Adrenaline. :wink: Okay, not really. :? but WAIT. I admit, I never paid that much attention to Wheeler's amazing capabilities. (I'll make sure I do on my second playthrough) But I did notice he managed to kill Needlers way quicker then I did and he had amazing aim, but isn't he a trained police officer?
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While Alex is a total nutter who imagined being in the army
And the fact he never reloads is something I completely overlooked! Wtf!! I gotta see this now! maybe he was made so bad ass so he'd be able to assist Alex better and give us a break from the combat? =D
and are we really going to bitch about realism in a silent hill game?
Oh, you're so right! ;D But I guess we like our realism every now and again...anyway, Skele I really like what you said. Isn't it funny how he's kinda being bashed for the fact he's black and acts it? I mean, sure, he's a bad ass ADULT cop and whatnot, but he still has flavor. :wink: And basically Wheeler's lines show his black, so why's that bad? Doesn't it mean he's in touch with his culture? I bet if Wheeler acted 'white' people would still go OMG HE WASN'T REALISTIC AT ALL. ;D

...we are totally blowing it out of proportion, but you know how we Silent Hill fans like to discuss every little thing. :roll:
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Post by SPRINGS02 »

Arsonist wrote:I don't think Wheeler is as stupid as I think he's an irritant.

His whole act seemed very Hollywood, the fact Wheeler is an immortal badass wielding a shotgun with unlimited ammo that can kill any enemy with one hit while he's sprouting up his one-liners really shatters the idea of "two silly kids caught in a trap".

I'm not the type to bitch about racism or any perceived bigotry, but I really was disappointed that our first living black character was seemingly, just there to be a black, comic relief, side-kick.
Couldn't agree more.
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Post by Deadbolt »

^The one constant in this thread, is that no one has made a strong argument for why Wheeler fits a Black stereotype. I have to answer RedScarlet's question by saying yes, i think that Wheeler's skin color is what's caused this whole controversy.

I'm not saying that Wheeler doesn't fit Hollywood's portrayal of a hero/badass cop, because he kinda does. with his cheesy (yet funny to some) one liners, and his badassery by blasting away at everything in sight, it's hard to argue against it. However there’s really nothing that he does (aside from the way he says shit, which is something some of us Black folks do, although I’ve heard plenty of people who weren’t Black say it the same way) that fits the stereotype of a Black man/person.
My personal complaint isn't so much that he's a stereotype of real-world black people, but that he's the stereotype of a black character in a Hollywood production. Be black, talk silly, make cheesy chokes, be cool when the time calls for it but be incompetent at times so you don't steal the spotlight, and have crazy conspiracy theories that are laughably wrong.
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Post by Kairu »

Not because he's black, a stereotype, had bad lines, was irritating, but because he was irrelevant and ruined the isolation. He was an unnecessary character the story would have been better off without him. Maria was a great side character because you didn't know who she was, what she was doing, or where came from, the story did really good job to make care for Maria even though you couldn't tell what she was with you for until the end. Wheeler was a cop, caught in the middle a'la Douglas, but Douglas was a tragic character, Wheeler, what did he actually do other then shoot his magic shotgun. Alex could have just as easily gotten out of that prison without him.
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Post by Arsonist »

My personal complaint isn't so much that he's a stereotype of real-world black people, but that he's the stereotype of a black character in a Hollywood production.
This.
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Post by Skele »

i have no problem with folks not liking him, but this stereotype of his, that's apparently based on another "hollywood" stereotype for Blacks, i just don't see.

i mean, i could see your point if it were only Blacks that were portrayed this way in cop films, but this isn't the case. Yeah, Carl Weathers provides ass kicking and comic relief in Action Jackson... and sure, Bad Boys is a good example. but you mean to tell me you guys have never watched a Die Hard, Lethal Weapon, or Robocop film? all of those films had White police officers who not only were known for their badassery (love this word), but also added comic relief as well. Hell, "Dead or alive you're coming with me!" will always be my favorite for cheesiest/funny line in a cop film, with "Yippee-ki-yay, motherfucker" coming in second. and if you want to see a White cop that walks around clueless, is funny, and just wants to use his big gun, watch "Lake Placid" or "Hot Fuzz."

I guess you all wanted Wheeler to be more like Detective Somerset (Seven, Kiss the Girls, Along Came a Spider)? yeah, it probably would've been nicer and made his character less irritating to some. but then again i'm sure someone would've probably found something to nitpick about.

anyway, i don't know why we all haven't agreed to disagree by now
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Post by Deadbolt »

Kairu said it perfectly. Not only was Wheeler a flawed character, but he was unneeded to the story. In a game like Silent Hill, there is absolutely no excuse for having worthless characters.
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Post by lain of the wired »

I didn't have any problems with his diction or attitude. I mean, would you have preferred he sound like a college scholar? I'd bet money people would complain of bad voice acting then, too. If you have a character with a given ethnic background, how is it offensive for them to sound like what they are?

The fact of the matter is, different ethnicities do have different dictions, tones, emphasis, etc, based on their cultural heritage and socioeconomic status. It's just linguistic fact. Not every black character has to sound like a candidate for thug life, but nor do they have to ignore affectations and colloquealisms common to their ethnicity, either.

As to the dialog, a simple example from the first post: I've heard whites, Asians and Latinos say "shiiiiiiii-et," too. I've said it. I'm white. That's just tone for emphasis, not racial dialog. It's not like he was shuckin' and jivin', people.
i have no problem with folks not liking him, but this stereotype of his, that's apparently based on another "hollywood" stereotype for Blacks, i just don't see.
Well, he was the only black guy in the horror show, but he didn't die. I'd call that a defiance of a Hollywood stereotype if ever there was one.
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Post by SPRINGS02 »

lain of the wired wrote: Well, he was the only black guy in the horror show, but he didn't die. I'd call that a defiance of a Hollywood stereotype if ever there was one.
Really i could of swore he died :shock: but i haven't played homecoming in a long time and never intend on playing it again.

And wheeler just seemed out of place to me its like the developers were like "hey lets try to bring some of the style of crappy hollywood horror to silent hill"
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Post by Skele »

Good post Lain :)

well SPRINGS, it's up to you whether or not he dies. and it happens right near the end of the game.
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Post by SPRINGS02 »

Skele wrote:Good post Lain :)

well SPRINGS, it's up to you whether or not he dies. and it happens right near the end of the game.
Oh yeah now i remember i think i actually saved him
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Post by Chrism~ »

lain of the wired wrote:The fact of the matter is, different ethnicities do have different dictions, tones, emphasis, etc, based on their cultural heritage and socioeconomic status.
Or the fact that whoever forced this character on the game should have had enough consideration to avoid adding a completely misplaced hollow 1 dimensional stereotype into a well established franchise, just so that it could appeal to a few people that aren't a part of the audience of the genre to bump up a few sales a bit and maybe give it a chance to be in the popular games spotlight for doing something supposedly cool.

The funny part is that it bothered most fans and the audience that this character was for completely overlooked it anyways, because it can't compete with Gears 2, COD4 or Fallout 3 or the types of games that most of todays gamers like.
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Post by lain of the wired »

Or the fact that whoever forced this character on the game should have had enough consideration to avoid adding a completely misplaced hollow 1 dimensional stereotype into a well established franchise,
He's a side character. What do you want? A full section of the game where you play as Wheeler, looking into his backstory? Do people bitch about Cybil being a 1-dimensional character? Or Laura? Or Douglas?

He's an outsider to the whole "Order" and sacrifice bullshit. He doesn't have to get a full backstory because he's not important. Again: he's a side character. He exists solely to move the story along and show the player that outsiders can experience what's happening to the town, as well. That's why he's there.

If you decide to say he's nothing but a stereotype, I want to see exactly why he's a stereotype at all. He's a person who happens to be black.

Chrism: I'm saying he's not a stereotype. Since when has having a black guy in a game or movie actually boosted sales with other races? As a matter of fact, it has not. If it's a good game, people will buy it. If not, they won't. The race of the characters is very low on the list of reasons why a person will have interest in a product. That's a ridiculous assertion.
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Post by Chrism~ »

lain of the wired wrote:
Or the fact that whoever forced this character on the game should have had enough consideration to avoid adding a completely misplaced hollow 1 dimensional stereotype into a well established franchise,
He's a side character. What do you want? A full section of the game where you play as Wheeler, looking into his backstory? Do people bitch about Cybil being a 1-dimensional character? Or Laura? Or Douglas?
How about character?

Side character or not, what's the point of adding a character with no character at all or purpose. They could have easily gone around him. His very presence felt like an excuse, rather than he had a purpose to anything in the game itself.

Good authors work hard to exclude all irrelevant details from their books, that way the story, the theme and small metaphors clearly come through to the reader even if they are cleverly camouflaged. Giving more meaning and quality. The same criteria work for the story when they are projected into a movie or a game. For a franchise where the atmosphere and the story are in the focus, Wheeler is in the wrong genre.

In other words, the game suffers on the behalf of his existence.
If you decide to say he's nothing but a stereotype, I want to see exactly why he's a stereotype at all. He's a person who happens to be black.

Chrism: I'm saying he's not a stereotype. Since when has having a black guy in a game or movie actually boosted sales with other races? As a matter of fact, it has not. If it's a good game, people will buy it. If not, they won't. The race of the characters is very low on the list of reasons why a person will have interest in a product. That's a ridiculous assertion.
I never said anything about a "race" or for that fact a color, but I said something some pages back about his personality. But if I have to compare him to another "black" videogame character then I can say that he's a failed attempt of being anything remotely like Cole Train from Gears of War. Although he doesn't hold a candle. And I don't say that because he is black I say that because as Arsonist so well put it:
Arsonist wrote:I don't think Wheeler is as stupid as I think he's an irritant.

His whole act seemed very Hollywood, the fact Wheeler is an immortal badass wielding a shotgun with unlimited ammo that can kill any enemy with one hit while he's sprouting up his one-liners really shatters the idea of "two silly kids caught in a trap".

I'm not the type to bitch about racism or any perceived bigotry, but I really was disappointed that our first living black character was seemingly, just there to be a black, comic relief, side-kick.
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Post by Skele »

There's a number of reasons why Wheelers in the game. Lain already pointed them out to you Chrism, as have many others in this thread. i think no matter what anyone says, you'll always have this hard-on for him.

oh well
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Post by Chrism~ »

Skele wrote:There's a number of reasons why Wheelers in the game. Lain already pointed them out to you Chrism, as have many others in this thread.
None of the reasons are compelling in my opinion, they are merely justifications to why he is in the game at all, aside from being a blank stereotype(...) Like I said, you could easily go around him.
think no matter what anyone says, you'll always have this hard-on for him.
The only hard one from me to Wheeler would be the one from a wooden plank, which I would smack him with in the back of his head for not staying in school long enough to learn how to speak or count.
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Post by AdamMosh »

it's so supid to talk about the color of characters in the game
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