pyramid head or boogeyman? should he have been there?

[clips]

>I recall notes and memos actually mentioning "The Order", which is what the SH cult is referred to as.<
I countered this in leftshoe18's thread: Mentioning Silent Hill characters by name in Silent Hill: Homecoming doesn't canonize it because, after all, Silent Hill: Movie uses the same names as in Silent Hill, yet they are clearly separate universes. Therefore, we can apply the same logic to distance Homecoming from the Silent Hill canon

I think you're taking it too literally....homecoming took certain aspects from the movie and used it in the game, but it's still canon in the original universe....it mentions douglas in an attemp to show that it is indeed in line with the original universe and i think it also mentions other aspects of past games to show it's relation as well, outside of douglas being mentioned.

The only way somebody could possibly connect homecoming to the movie is if homecoming was the first SH game they ever played and if homecoming made some type of reference to the movie (it didn't), but then then they would have to wonder about the first game and where it started, then it would be clear that homecoimg couldn't possibly be connected to the movie.

And even tho the movie uses names from the games, the overall story is different from the original game and certain characters in the movie were actually added,...my point is that trying to connect homecoming to the movie is somebody trying incredibly hard and even if that individual accepts the connection when there are facts that dispute it, then that person is either incredibly slow on the intake or has little to "0" comprehension ability.

[The Adversary]

I don't think you're getting it. There's nothing tethering Silent Hill: Homecoming to the rest of the Silent Hill series.

>it mentions douglas in an attemp to show that it is indeed in line with the original universe<
Douglas in Homecoming doesn't have to be Douglas from Silent Hill 3, just as Alessa from Silent Hill: Movie isn't Alessa from Silent Hill. See how this works? You don't get to tell me they're the same character one way and not the same character another way. It doesn't work like that.

>if homecoming made some type of reference to the movie (it didn't)<
It did: The symbol for the Order is the same in both the film and Homecoming. Don't forget all the miners, and the Grand Hotel, and the underground mine fire, and . . .

>even tho the movie uses names from the games, the overall story is different from the original game<
That doesn't matter because nothing from Homecoming alludes to those characters—except, of course, the red pyramid thing.

This has nothing to do with lacking comprehension of the series. If anything, the people trying to distance Homecoming from better understands it than those trying to rope it in with tenuous connections—and all of those connections have been cut cut cut cut cut apart by using the exact same logic the Homecoming apologists have attempted to rescue it with.

[SilentWren]

Wow! One of the Homecoming threads turned into a debate about canon?! A few of you owe me $20.

None of this even matters. Homecoming exists, and fans ignoring it isn't going to make it go away. There have been many fans that were introduced to the series through Homecoming, then later learned to appreciate the older titles.

I think anything that increases the size of the fan base is a good thing. More fans=more ppl buying SH games=more series security. And this is coming from someone who didn't really like Homecoming....at all.

[clips]

Douglas in Homecoming doesn't have to be Douglas from Silent Hill 3, just as Alessa from Silent Hill: Movie isn't Alessa from Silent Hill. See how this works? You don't get to tell me they're the same character one way and not the same character another way. It doesn't work like that.

I see your point (barely), but c'mon, do you actually believe that the douglas that was mentioned in Homecoming was actually different from the person in SH3? If that's the case they could have just made up any name if they weren't trying to show a reference...i think you're reaching here

I don't think you're getting it. There's nothing tethering Silent Hill: Homecoming to the rest of the Silent Hill series

I think this can be said for most of the games in the series...except maybe 1&3....SH2 & 4 both are standalone storylines.....I respect your view on this, and like i stated, maybe i can see a newcomer barely making the connection to the movie because of what homecoming takes from the movie, but if you've played all or most of the games in the series, then i can't see how you can possibly say that homecoming isn't part of the original universe.

[The Adversary]

>do you actually believe that the douglas that was mentioned in Homecoming was actually different from the person in SH3?<
Le sigh. . . . No, I didn't say that. I said, if we as a collective audience choose to distance Silent Hill: Homecoming from the rest of the series, we can based on the same name-name principle people use to distance the film from the series.

>I think this can be said for most of the games in the series<
Silent Hill 2 yields the Virun VII Crest seen in Silent Hill; Silent Hill 4: The Room alludes to Walter Sullivan as in Silent Hill 2. All three of those games are tethered by unique examples. Add in Silent Hill 3 for obvious reasons and you've got the entire series.

[Nyarlathotep]

It did: The symbol for the Order is the same in both the film and Homecoming.

To be fair. Homecoming uses a slightly altered version of it as a symbol for the four founding families of Shepherd's Glen. Once we get to the section of the game with Holloway reverting to The Order, we see the Halo of the Sun in its form from Silent Hill 3 and 4.

Don't forget all the miners, and the Grand Hotel, and the underground mine fire, and . . .

The mining suits are hinted to be from the Shepherd's Glen coal mine. There's no actual mine fire mentioned at all within Homecoming. There are story elements that contradict the idea, even.

[Mephisto]

More fans=more ppl buying SH games=more series security.

=More bitching.

[SilentWren]

^Not every Silent Hill fan joins a forum, though. I never joined one until 2007.
Besides, the bitching is interesting sometimes.

[SPRINGS02]

More doesn't always mean better. Quality over quantity.

[SilentWren]

^As far as forum goers are concerned, I agree with you. But in business, the only thing that matters is your profit margin. Sad, but true.
You're not saying that you want the series to tank just because the fans are bitchy, are you? Because if that were the case, I'd hope that Star Wars totally bombs.

[Soulless-Shadow]

^Not every Silent Hill fan joins a forum, though. I never joined one until 2007.
Besides, the bitching is interesting sometimes.

But highly entertaining. Well, until people get boring with the same old arguments. Ruins the fun.

[SPRINGS02]

^As far as forum goers are concerned, I agree with you. But in business, the only thing that matters is your profit margin. Sad, but true.
You're not saying that you want the series to tank just because the fans are bitchy, are you? Because if that were the case, I'd hope that Star Wars totally bombs.

Eh, it's kind of hard to explain. I want the silent hill series to be successful but at the same time i wouldn't want them to try new things just to attract new fans to the series, i mean imagine if they took the resident evil 5 route and tried to make it more actiony to attract a bigger audience. I definitely don't want the series to tank, i just don't want it to get TOO big. Certain game series can get huge and be fine(like final fantasy, mario, pokemon. etc.) I just don't know if it would be great for the series if silent hill got really big, it could change it for the worse. I mean yeah if it sold more it could bring in more profit and resources to the series, which could help. But relying on money and pure graphics wouldn't suit silent hill so well. I guess it really depends on if they got lazy and just started making games for money, like EA sports or Activision.

And yeah while silent hill does have some of the most elitist stuck up fans, the type that seem to think only intellectuals play silent hill(don't worry i like most of you guys on here) the only series i would want to tank because of the fans is twilight

[BlackRose]

I just hope Homecoming was a one off. I have high hopes for Downpour. No i'm not "bitching" i just didn't enjoy Homecoming, believe me i tried. It just felt lazy, the only thing i did like was some of the boss battles but even those at times frustrated me because i personally found the combat system frustratingly hard at times.

The sewer level drove me insane, especially when you had to start all over again seeing as there were hardly any save points. The "twist" ending just didn't really come as much of a surprise and once i did complete the game i had no interest in playing it again like i have done with past SH games.

Too much emphasis on combat not enough on the storyline. Also, people said how "amazing" the graphics were but for a next gen console i thought the graphics were mediocre, especially the facial animations. Pretty much all the older SH games had much better animations with far less powerful consoles.

[SPRINGS02]

^I agree homecoming was really bland looking for a next gen game, to this day i still consider SH3 to be the best looking silent hill, if they could make a next gen silent hill game in that art style it would be somethin else.

[BlackRose]

^I agree homecoming was really bland looking for a next gen game, to this day i still consider SH3 to be the best looking silent hill, if they could make a next gen silent hill game in that art style it would be somethin else.

Also, SH2's facial animations in the cut scenes were stunning.

[46n2]

Back on track a little bit, I just watched The Real Silent Hill Experience and they tried to explain that PH should belong only to James and blah blah blah. As "evidence" they quoted The Book of Lost Memories 5 minutes after they said not to trust written sources, wether it was official or not.

I don't see why people can't get it through their heads that PH=/=Boogeyman. Yeah, he looks like Movie PH, yeah it's fanservice, but the town manifests what is in peoples minds and it is clearly established that stories of the old SH executioners were told to Alex. It's not so much of a stretch that Alex and James would encounter a similar creature, having similar feelings of guilt and both naturally associating said feelings with a figure from the towns history.

Do I wish DH had been more original? Sure. But really now, Alex has just as much of a reason to encounter a creature with that appearance as James does.

[stopped_clock]

Do I wish DH had been more original? Sure. But really now, Alex has just as much of a reason to encounter a creature with that appearance as James does.

Much more of a reason, in fact, when you realise that the manifestation does not belong purely to Alex but to the founding families of Shepherds Glen who actually believe that they have incurred the wrath of "God". It makes complete sense that they would manifest a punisher based on the appearance of the old order executioners.

But I'm really just repeating myself now.

[SilentWren]

^I never really thought of it that way.
I still think it was kind of a cop out that he looked SO much like ph, but I'm beginning to get the feeling lately that I was a little harder on Homecoming than was necessary.
It was pretty cheesy and horror movie-ish, but it was more Silent Hilly than I gathered from a handful of play throughs.
Believe it or not, I actually liked the Siams, too. I think I need to replay this some time with a more open mind.

[46n2]

I think you should Wren. I was honestly in your shoes about a year ago: I mocked HC and never really paid attention to it. I met a few people on forums who encouraged me to play it with a fresh mind and dig a bit deeper. So I did and now I really like HC. I cast aside my biases and had a good experience. It really helped me better appreciate the series as a whole; And as a result, I get a lot more enjoyment from the series.

[Trauma_]

I really HATE to bring up an old topic, but doing this is better than creating an entirely new topic for some minor point.

Am I the only one that thinks it's stupid beyond belief that SH2 fan boys piss and moan and disappear up their own ass about them re-using RPT in Homecoming and the movie, yet they have no problem with TS re-using the siren sound in 2 when it has almost nothing to do with the story at all (at least not that I know of). It was just something I thought of and figured this would be a good lace to bring it up, since the siren is just as iconic as RPT...

Especially since they did the exact same thing with the siren in 2, than they did with RPT in Homecoming...

EDIT-Along with the fact that if another team had done it,(The siren) they would automatically be "ripping off (whatever)". And it's happened too... It's hypocrisy at it's finest...