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Poor Alex ... his momma don't seem to like him much. We wonder why in here ...

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AuraTwilight
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Post by AuraTwilight »

Another thing to mention is that Joshua's neck seems to snap on the edge of the boat before he goes into the water. Even if Joshua was an acceptable sacrifice otherwise, he wouldn't be dead from drowning.
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Post by Sirea »

Cyrus Hanley wrote:Thanks, Sirea.

I'm just incredibly embarrassed because this is the only Silent Hill game that I own and clearly I know next to nothing about the story. >.<

I think that people say that Alex isn't complex because he overreacts to everything and anything weird he sees, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

This is in comparison to James Sunderland's eerily calm demeanor in Silent Hill 2, although that itself is pretty special because it almost gives it a euphoric dream-like quality.
You're welcome. :) I just... spend way too much thinking about this game because I love it so freaking much. It's actually the only Xbox game I own that I've gotten 1000/1000 achievements in because I've played it that rigorously and that many times. >.>

And I don't think Alex really overreacts to anything unless you respond in a way that makes him overreact. When I first played through the game, I chose all the "nicer" responses, and I came away from the game thinking of Alex as a gigantic woobie sweetheart. Then I went back through it and was an ass to everyone, and I was like, "Jesus Christ, Alex, are you going to piss yourself and cry, too? B|"

James was just so... underwhelming as a character, too, so it doesn't really make sense to compare the two of them. But I won't get into that. >.>
"Remember how people look in "The Ring" after Samara gets 'em? SH2 does something similar, only you get fat, sweaty and belligerent." - pianotheme @ livejournal
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Post by Cyrus Hanley »

Sirea wrote:
Cyrus Hanley wrote:Thanks, Sirea.

I'm just incredibly embarrassed because this is the only Silent Hill game that I own and clearly I know next to nothing about the story. >.<

I think that people say that Alex isn't complex because he overreacts to everything and anything weird he sees, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

This is in comparison to James Sunderland's eerily calm demeanor in Silent Hill 2, although that itself is pretty special because it almost gives it a euphoric dream-like quality.
You're welcome. :) I just... spend way too much thinking about this game because I love it so freaking much. It's actually the only Xbox game I own that I've gotten 1000/1000 achievements in because I've played it that rigorously and that many times. >.>

And I don't think Alex really overreacts to anything unless you respond in a way that makes him overreact. When I first played through the game, I chose all the "nicer" responses, and I came away from the game thinking of Alex as a gigantic woobie sweetheart. Then I went back through it and was an ass to everyone, and I was like, "Jesus Christ, Alex, are you going to piss yourself and cry, too? B|"

James was just so... underwhelming as a character, too, so it doesn't really make sense to compare the two of them. But I won't get into that. >.>
Alex shouting, "Holy ####! What the #### is that thing?" in every cutscene with a monster really surprised me, because after watching Silent Hill 2 on YouTube I was expecting different.

Overreacting was probably a bit harsh of me, more like he would have reacted in the same way that I would (which, in a sense, is overreacting). :lol:

It was a nice surprise though, not a terrible one like how
PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER:
they made the game more linear than previous ones.
:cry:
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Post by Sirea »

If you don't like linear, don't play Shattered Memories. x: That is so not a rant for this board, though, so I'm going to leave it at that. But I don't understand how people can say the other games weren't linear. There was always one path to go one way for one goal. How is that not linear? Just because you had to go ridiculously out of your way to do it doesn't make it "better." For me, it just made it more time consuming and irritating. I think Homecoming had enough room to roam around and explore (and chances to get lost, which I did a couple of times) without being annoying.

Personally, I'm starting to get pretty irritated with all of the people who have to compare every single Silent Hill game to 2. There's no reason to expect any of the other protagonists to be James, and there's no reason to expect any of the games to feel the same way as any other game in the series, including 2. Every game is a completely different person's personalized version of hell; we can't expect everything to look/feel like James's hell, and it's unfair to do so.

errr I'm not trying to be a jerk, just stating my opinion on the matter.
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Post by Mephisto »

Another thing to mention is that Joshua's neck seems to snap on the edge of the boat before he goes into the water. Even if Joshua was an acceptable sacrifice otherwise, he wouldn't be dead from drowning.
I was going to say that, more or less. Seems like you beat me to it Aura.
Personally, I'm starting to get pretty irritated with all of the people who have to compare every single Silent Hill game to 2.
Yeah, same.
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Post by Doncornuto »

Homecoming was the first Silent Hill game I've played.. before that I had only read about the storylines and the various theories. I was kinda surprised at first how not "SH" it felt.. but after a while i stopped comparing it to the other games. Homecoming is a very good game.. it may not have the depth of a SH2 or even the atmosphere of a Fatal Frame Game.. but it is nice to have a Protagonist that is able to stand up against the enemys rather then beeing totaly horrified just running away all the time. Granted that the other SH's kinda do the same thing but when I think about the way the character would react without me controlling him I can't help the feeling that only Alex would effectively fight the creatures.


Know that you kinda know what my position is.. let's throw my thoughts on the table.


1. The Siams

I'm not to sure about this one, until know all the theories I've read can be seen as kinda fitting.. but they didn't convince me at all. It seems to be a weakness of this game that they threw in monsters without really thinking to much. You have some that are painfully obvious.. and some that seem to be there only to be creepy. I favour the "Dragged along by fate" theory.. cause the male body is clearly more of a beast like shape and not all that human. The female body however could be seen as the "civilized" human still beeing controlled by the primitive instincts.

2. Pyramid Head

A lot of people seem to hate the fact that he's in the game. I get why.. it's easy to see him as a cash cow that will guarantee a certain amount of popularity. Personally I like his appearance in the game.. The first time i saw him i almost shut the game off cause I was scared shitless. Besides Homecoming beeing my first SH of course i knew who the guy was.. but lacking any "personal" confrontation i had no idea how hard it would actually be to fight him of. Of course, than he just walked by and i had my "Wtf was that about" face on.

After i thought about it for a while, it seemed to me that it was the smart decision to just let him have a few "guest" appearances. Alex is a quite skilled combatant.. and letting him fight the PH icon would have lead to dissapointment, one way or the other.

3. Why is he there?

There is a hell lot of guilt in this game.. when you think about it.. almost everyone is either driven by it.. haunted by it.. or shut it away trying to forget. Alex aside.. those people where more or less active members of a cult that originated from the infamous other one. It's quite possible that they saw the pictures and knew about the figure of the executioner.


ps. I'm not a native speaker.. so please excuse me if my posts sound a bit.. weird at times. I tend to write my way around words i can't remember ^^;
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Post by OsirisZero »

The problem is, the Otherworld isn't something that is just "spawned into existence", not even with dark rituals and whatnot.

The reason for the craziness in Silent Hill in the first place is because Silent Hill itself (the physical location really) has deep connections with the spirit/metaphysical world. Not to mention an extremely dark and sordid past, which I'm sure only works through this connection to disturb the balance and to infuse more and more dark energy into the place--particularly with death, guilt, fear, and other dark emotions.

The whole Alessa affair basically blew this connection open--what with the whole summoning a dark god thing, which is why Silent Hill is all fucked up in the first place. Silent Hill 2 was James just being drawn to a Silent Hill which was already "broken" due to the first game.

There's not really a whole lot of reason for Shepherd's Glenn to have issues as well, unless the corruption and disturbance/chaos from Silent Hill is spreading to neighboring towns--which could possibly be the case as Shepherd's Glenn had it's own share of similar cult members/ideology/worship/rituals, etc. Once again though, the two towns share different histories, so there is NO REASON for them to have any connection with Pyramid Head and no reason for him to manifest the same way (which is what I already have said) UNLESS, the people who founded the town had deep personal connections or whatever to Silent Hill's own dark history. True, you could say the cult had ties to each other, and this may work for this....but if they cared that much for Silent Hill, they probably wouldn't have left.
Pyramid Head was, essentially, created by the Order, not by James.
The cult didn't make the "Otherworld". The Otherworld is a dark mirror of not only the town itself, and the town's own history, but also a dark mirror of the inner psychological/possibly spiritual world of the user.

Silent Hill 1 was everyone trapped inside of Alessa's nightmare world, because she had powers and was infused by a god, everyone was drawn into HER world because they were deeply tied to her in some way and it was all a reflection of her pain and anguish.

Silent Hill 2 was James' own world, just like the other people he met along the way were trapped inside their own little dark mirror worlds. The staircase scene with the emo chick (forgot her name) where it was on fire was what her experience and version of Silent Hill looked like all the time--she even said so. Eddie had his own little world that HE saw.

Silent Hill 3 was similar to Silent Hill 1, because Heather was basically Cheryl and Alessa at the same time, it's easy to see that the world she was working in was basically remnants of her previous nightmare as her previous self all reconciling itself with.....itself.

Silent Hill 4 was Walter's own personal retardedness which was infecting his old room because the devs didn't want to make another game but where basically told they had to so picked something from one of the other games, threw together a story around it, and made a game one weekend.

This is why this game doesn't exactly fit. Again, there's not really a whole lot of reason for everything to be happening. It's just there. ....Doing Silent Hill stuff (but mostly from the movie!) for no apparent reason.
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Post by Mis Krist. »

>so there is NO REASON for them to have any connection with Pyramid Head and no reason for him to manifest the same way

Er, have you read ANYONE'S theories as to why he's there or did you just like, post in the thread without reading it? I'm only asking because I think the theories people came up with offer plenty of REASON to think that there's a connection with PH and his manifestation in Shepherd's Glen.

Also, uh, dude? Since when is sharing an image from something's past = caring? Because I'm not sure how you're making that leap O_o They can believe in the same FORM of something without wanting anything else to do with the town. Kinda like how the Order's sects believed in the same God but not the same way to bring Her to life o/ Same image, vastly different courses of life.

>This is why this game doesn't exactly fit. Again, there's not really a whole lot of reason for everything to be happening. It's just there. ....Doing Silent Hill stuff (but mostly from the movie!) for no apparent reason.

What a lazy answer.

ETA: Also... the Other World isn't exactly tied down to Silent Hill specifically since SH3 and SH4's Other Worlds either were far removed from Silent Hill or took place in towns that had no connection to it. Shepherd's Glen had more ties to Silent Hill than any of the pre-SH locations Heather visited, and it had perhaps a bit more significance than the locations Henry visited (though most of those were tied in with Walter). Using these games as a guidance, I would suggest that the REASON the Other World was at all present in Shepherd's Glen is because it is branching out--ergo giving a REASON for the events of Homecoming to happen in the first place.

Roasted.

ETA2: Oh, why am I trying? You're one of those people who still complains about SH4, aren't you? =/
I'm not dead yet, dammit.
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Post by AuraTwilight »

The problem is, the Otherworld isn't something that is just "spawned into existence", not even with dark rituals and whatnot.

The reason for the craziness in Silent Hill in the first place is because Silent Hill itself (the physical location really) has deep connections with the spirit/metaphysical world. Not to mention an extremely dark and sordid past, which I'm sure only works through this connection to disturb the balance and to infuse more and more dark energy into the place--particularly with death, guilt, fear, and other dark emotions.

The whole Alessa affair basically blew this connection open--what with the whole summoning a dark god thing, which is why Silent Hill is all fucked up in the first place. Silent Hill 2 was James just being drawn to a Silent Hill which was already "broken" due to the first game.
This is, of course, all your own personal interpretation of the series' metaphysics, so it's not actually grounds to condemn any of the games on. It's also wrong.
There's not really a whole lot of reason for Shepherd's Glenn to have issues as well, unless the corruption and disturbance/chaos from Silent Hill is spreading to neighboring towns--which could possibly be the case as Shepherd's Glenn had it's own share of similar cult members/ideology/worship/rituals, etc. Once again though, the two towns share different histories, so there is NO REASON for them to have any connection with Pyramid Head and no reason for him to manifest the same way (which is what I already have said) UNLESS, the people who founded the town had deep personal connections or whatever to Silent Hill's own dark history. True, you could say the cult had ties to each other, and this may work for this....but if they cared that much for Silent Hill, they probably wouldn't have left.
You do realize that the people of Shepherd's Glenn used to live in Silent Hill, and left due to religious schism, right? So, yea, they would know about Pyramid Head and whatnot.

And Shepherd's Glenn is is just on the other side of Toluca Lake. If you're fine with the Otherworld following Heather all the fuck over to Portland, which is possibly all the way in Oregon, then just a few kilometers is no big deal.
The cult didn't make the "Otherworld".
But Alessa did.

And the person was saying "Pyramid Head" was created by the Order, which is true; they created the image and costume that was used to inspire him, including the "Executioner" role. For someone who's bitching about Homecoming fucking with the series' history, you don't seem too familiar with it.
The staircase scene with the emo chick (forgot her name)
This is the point where we realize you're not much worth listening to.
Silent Hill 4 was Walter's own personal retardedness which was infecting his old room because the devs didn't want to make another game but where basically told they had to so picked something from one of the other games, threw together a story around it, and made a game one weekend.
Oh, fuck this, seriously. SH4 wasn't so bad that it's worth claiming they cobbled it together in a single weekend.
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Post by The Adversary »

>Portland, which is possibly all the way in Oregon
This isn't a possibility at all.

>the devs [. . .] made a game one weekend.
Silent Hill 4: The Room was in development shortly after Silent Hill 2 was finished.
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Post by AuraTwilight »

This isn't a possibility at all.
There is a Portland in Oregon, though. :P And it's funnier to think it is because it's also the town the Simpsons' Springfield setting was based on.
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Post by The Adversary »

Portland, Maine is closer. Harry and Cheryl moving all the way across the nation then after a crazed occultist tracks them down they move to a town no more than 30 minutes away from where the crazy occultist was from makes no sense.
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Post by Sirea »

OsirisZero wrote:The problem is, the Otherworld isn't something that is just "spawned into existence", not even with dark rituals and whatnot.

The reason for the craziness in Silent Hill in the first place is because Silent Hill itself (the physical location really) has deep connections with the spirit/metaphysical world. Not to mention an extremely dark and sordid past, which I'm sure only works through this connection to disturb the balance and to infuse more and more dark energy into the place--particularly with death, guilt, fear, and other dark emotions.

The whole Alessa affair basically blew this connection open--what with the whole summoning a dark god thing, which is why Silent Hill is all fucked up in the first place. Silent Hill 2 was James just being drawn to a Silent Hill which was already "broken" due to the first game.
Like Aura said, that's just your opinion and interpretation. And, in fact, Alessa was the one to create Otherworld, so, yes, it was something that was just "spawned into existence."
There's not really a whole lot of reason for Shepherd's Glenn to have issues as well, unless the corruption and disturbance/chaos from Silent Hill is spreading to neighboring towns--which could possibly be the case as Shepherd's Glenn had it's own share of similar cult members/ideology/worship/rituals, etc.
Or not. Did you play Silent Hill 3, or am I imagining the fact that Otherworld followed Heather wherever the hell she went? Also, Silent Hill 4 never happened, either. There was so not an Otherworld outside of Silent Hill in that game, either.
Once again though, the two towns share different histories, so there is NO REASON for them to have any connection with Pyramid Head and no reason for him to manifest the same way (which is what I already have said) UNLESS, the people who founded the town had deep personal connections or whatever to Silent Hill's own dark history.
...Oh, you mean they didn't? LOL I GUESS WE WERE PLAYING TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GAMES THEN. Because, in my version of the game, the people who founded the town did have deep personal connections to Silent Hill's dark history. They were in The Order all the way back in the early 1800s, and prior to that, all the way until the founding of Silent Hill itself.
True, you could say the cult had ties to each other, and this may work for this....but if they cared that much for Silent Hill, they probably wouldn't have left.
What the hell is that logic? IF PROTESTANTS CARED THAT MUCH FOR CHRISTIANITY, THEY PROBABLY WOULDN'T HAVE LEFT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH!
The cult didn't make the "Otherworld". The Otherworld is a dark mirror of not only the town itself, and the town's own history, but also a dark mirror of the inner psychological/possibly spiritual world of the user.
I never said the cult made Otherworld. Stop putting words in my mouth. I said the cult created the image of Pyramid Head, which they did.
This is why this game doesn't exactly fit. Again, there's not really a whole lot of reason for everything to be happening. It's just there. ....Doing Silent Hill stuff (but mostly from the movie!) for no apparent reason.
And now I'm inclined to believe you never actually played Homecoming; you just read a whole bunch of reviews and slapped together a terrible opinion on it, hating it by default because it took a few visual cues from the movie. Because god forbid games use really good visuals. (spoilers: there was nothing from the movie in this game that had any bearing on plot)
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Post by AuraTwilight »

Portland, Maine is closer. Harry and Cheryl moving all the way across the nation then after a crazed occultist tracks them down they move to a town no more than 30 minutes away from where the crazy occultist was from makes no sense.
Who said they moved to a town no more than 30 minutes away?
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Post by OsirisZero »

Krist. wrote:so there is NO REASON for them to have any connection with Pyramid Head and no reason for him to manifest the same way

Er, have you read ANYONE'S theories as to why he's there or did you just like, post in the thread without reading it? I'm only asking because I think the theories people came up with offer plenty of REASON to think that there's a connection with PH and his manifestation in Shepherd's Glen.
Yeah, read the theories. I just have one of my own.
Also, uh, dude? Since when is sharing an image from something's past = caring? Because I'm not sure how you're making that leap O_o They can believe in the same FORM of something without wanting anything else to do with the town. Kinda like how the Order's sects believed in the same God but not the same way to bring Her to life o/ Same image, vastly different courses of life.
That's not quite what I was getting at. I was basically saying that they would have to have a deep personal reason for that image in order for that figure/image to have been "chosen" (can't think of any other way to explain it). But I was also saying that this could be the case given that they branched off as a separate sect at some point. Especially considering that the whole 'bogeyman' tale was likely something that had been passed down for generations. While I think that story would play an important part, I think that as the adults, they also know that it comes down to a lot more than just being afraid of the Bogeyman.

But then again, I mainly question the legitimacy of the game's world in general, which is also why I was saying that.

I know. I suck for it. :wink:
Sirea wrote:Like Aura said, that's just your opinion and interpretation. And, in fact, Alessa was the one to create Otherworld, so, yes, it was something that was just "spawned into existence."
The Otherworld from the first game happened to be based on Alessa's own personal nightmare, and everyone involved in that game got dragged into that same world because she had a certain amount of power through her connection to basically being the mother/daughter of god, and they were part of her personal story in some significant way.

This is also the same reason why in Silent Hill 3, Heather was dragged into the other world as well. Again, she was basically Cheryl/Alessa (and still the mother of god/daughter of god--once removed, you could say) Considering the otherworld isn't entirely "real", it's easy to explain why she experienced that "place" while not being in Silent Hill. She still had a connection to that world either way. OR you could say that because of that connection in the first place, it allowed those forces to break through in those other locations by her link to that world--but since Silent Hill often has a recurring theme of 'your own personal despair/guilt/hell, etc' I don't think so.

It's not like if you're in a cult, you can just get together with your friends, pull off an elaborate ritual and summon demons and an entire hellish otherworld. What, just because the townspeople had a lot of guilt/sadness/fear, that's a good explanation? If so, then what do other towns where they have a lot of the same emotions for whatever tragedy or dark history have to deal with in this world where apparently all it takes is just the right amount of emotion to trigger your entire town to be swallowed up by another dimension?

No, it makes MORE SENSE that due to the spiritual/dark history of this region in general that the barrier between the normal world and the internal/psychological/spiritual or whatever you want to call it has been weakened in this particular place, coupled with actually managing to give birth to a god (probably more like a demon) who still likely has some measure of control over this location, that if you have the right amount of craziness, or self-torment, or evil past, etc. you will get sucked into that type of world because that's exactly what Silent Hill is....a dark mirror.

The way I see it, Samael's influence would have to have been spread to this location. Which is again, certainly a possibility, but there's still not a whole lot of reason for them to all be experiencing the same version of events.

For the sake of conversation, I would say that Pyramid Head is more the personification of Alex's father than anything. Another post on another thread pointed out that he has subtle military camo as part of his clothing, this would make sense since he was really the only character in the game who was actually in the military (that I can remember) plus he seems to have that demeanor. It also makes sense because he feels incredibly guilty about treating Alex like shit, thinking about killing him in the first place, that it basically resulted in his other son's death, and that he was put in this position by the cult in the first place.

DESPITE the fact that Double Helix says that the townspeople summoned him to basically kill themselves, which is stupid. (OMG, time to flame me)

Also, to everyone who keeps mentioning it: I KNOW that what I'm saying is pretty much my own interpretation. (Not really. Plenty of others have the same one.) Here's something that you apparently might not know: The things you are saying are YOUR OWN interpretation of things. :shock:

Did I just blow your mind? Crazy!

All of this aside, nothing explains why all the cultists from the movie would be running around in mining gear everywhere. :wink:
PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER:
I know it's not literally EVERYwhere.
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Post by Sirea »

OsirisZero wrote:Also, to everyone who keeps mentioning it: I KNOW that what I'm saying is pretty much my own interpretation.
Awesome, you just saved me a long-winded response.

So, Homecoming doesn't fit into your Silent Hill. The problem is that the game is actually considered canon and renders your Silent Hill to be not canon. You can't say it doesn't make sense, because it does. It just doesn't in the way you originally perceived the games. But as the series progresses and we learn more and more about Silent Hill and The Order, you have to be able to accept that the mythos is going to expand and progress with it. Facts and backstory are not limited to what we were told in the first three games. Sometimes it's going to debunk theories you originally had, sometimes it's going to prove them. But you can't just toss aside an entire game's worth of storyline just because you don't agree with it.

I'm having really bad flashbacks to Resident Evil fandom right now. The games are going to keep telling the story whether a small portion of disagreeing fans likes it or not.
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Post by AuraTwilight »

It's not like if you're in a cult, you can just get together with your friends, pull off an elaborate ritual and summon demons and an entire hellish otherworld. What, just because the townspeople had a lot of guilt/sadness/fear, that's a good explanation? If so, then what do other towns where they have a lot of the same emotions for whatever tragedy or dark history have to deal with in this world where apparently all it takes is just the right amount of emotion to trigger your entire town to be swallowed up by another dimension?
Because only the Silent Hill/Shepherd's Glenn/Toluca Lake area has a supernatural power built into the land from ancient times that manifests the emotions of people who live there. The series doesn't say that you can just do an occult ritual and call the Otherworld, but the Otherworld, which inhabits the area, does react to an entire town of people entering hysteria, paranoia, fear, and depression.
No, it makes MORE SENSE that due to the spiritual/dark history of this region in general that the barrier between the normal world and the internal/psychological/spiritual or whatever you want to call it has been weakened in this particular place, coupled with actually managing to give birth to a god (probably more like a demon) who still likely has some measure of control over this location, that if you have the right amount of craziness, or self-torment, or evil past, etc. you will get sucked into that type of world because that's exactly what Silent Hill is....a dark mirror.
...alright, we all know that. Do you have a point? Because no one claimed anything different.
The way I see it, Samael's influence would have to have been spread to this location. Which is again, certainly a possibility, but there's still not a whole lot of reason for them to all be experiencing the same version of events.
There is no Samael, for one thing.
DESPITE the fact that Double Helix says that the townspeople summoned him to basically kill themselves, which is stupid. (OMG, time to flame me)
What's so stupid about it? The other three parents feel guilt about killing their children, and Adam Shepherd isn't anywhere near the Hotel when Alex visits it, so why else should the Bogeyman be there?
Also, to everyone who keeps mentioning it: I KNOW that what I'm saying is pretty much my own interpretation. (Not really. Plenty of others have the same one.) Here's something that you apparently might not know: The things you are saying are YOUR OWN interpretation of things. Shocked

Did I just blow your mind? Crazy!
Some of the things said in this thread have been canonical fact, so no, not really.
All of this aside, nothing explains why all the cultists from the movie would be running around in mining gear everywhere.
There's a coal mine in Silent Hill, according to SH2, and they're not the cultists from the movie.
[quote="BlackFire2"]I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.[/quote]
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