alex 302'd date: possible spoilers here!

Post by **Catch22** » 15 Mar 2010

No, but Schizophrenics, when they aren't in a psychotic or catatonic state, can behave normally. Besides, Elle may just assume that Alex's altered behaviour is a result of the war he just fought and the injuries he sustained.

Plus, what we see of Elle is from Alex's perspective. Who knows if that's how she really reacted.

Post by **AuraTwilight** » 15 Mar 2010

sorry Aura but everyone is obviously messed up. look closely at people on the street: step count, breath timing, posture, expression, eye movement you'll notice things from even the most sane of people... now those of us who have mental illness (depression, schizophrenia, mania, OCD, ect.) are easier to spot.

And I'm sure you've met every mentally ill person in the world, right? Quit generalizing. Just because you know some people with mental illness doesn't mean you can categorize every crazy person by a few tells. That's the sort of bullshit Hollywood does.

Post by **DistantJ** » 16 Mar 2010

I can see where this topic is going... But I'm on the side of Aura here, I'm sure you don't mean it intentionally, wonderland kitten, but it's quite judgemental to think you can tell a 'crazy person' a mile off, if anything it'd be more common that somebody with mental issues has them in 'episodes'.

I used to have clinical depression, and everybody who found out always said "you wouldn't think it", but I never met a person also suffering from it who made it obvious, the ones who looked depressed on the surface were usually attention seekers with no real problems.

In fact, we bring up Schizophrenia a lot to refer to Alex, and that is an illness which is known for it's on-off nature (not claiming to be an expert here, my other half... girlfriend... not my other personality

... studies psychology at university so I know some stuff but I'm totally ready to be corrected), it's not a multiple personality like a lot of people think it is (that's something else altogether) but more like more than one distinct way of acting/reacting... It's hard to put it into words, I'm just the boyfriend of the psychology student.

But anyway, to go back on topic, it's like any good 'what the hell is going on' horror flick, where you don't know what's real or what's a dream, think Jacob's Ladder, Perfect Blue, stuff like that. You can't really try and work logic into Silent Hill.

Post by **Aldo** » 16 Mar 2010

DistantJ wrote:
I used to have clinical depression, and everybody who found out always said "you wouldn't think it", but I never met a person also suffering from it who made it obvious, the ones who looked depressed on the surface were usually attention seekers with no real problems.

Indeed, I suffered from depression too. Aside from the people I chose to tell, no one knew. Not only that I was involved with a girl who was worse off than me, and I didn't even know until she told me.

It's extremely easy to put on a facade when you're in public.

Post by **Catch22** » 16 Mar 2010

To add to this, I have Dysthymia--it isn't as bad as Depression, but it's chronic, and has lasted for about five or six years. So far I've hidden it from everyone but my therapist. Hell, it's gone pretty well! In private is when it shows, but in public it's pretty easy to look cheerful, regardless of how you actually feel.

And I have a friend who I just found out is bipolar. I never would've thought!

Ah, this thread is making me remember why I like Alex's character so much and feel so bad for him. Once you think about it, he's gone through quite a bit, and is essentially innocent... poor guy.

Post by **DistantJ** » 16 Mar 2010

Thanks for both of your brilliant posts, and for sharing such information! Good to know you're not alone, eh? Wonderland Kitten, perhaps now you understand why people get mad when such issues are stereotyped like that? I know you didn't mean anything by it but maybe you learned something today.

Post by **SHF** » 16 Mar 2010

then how do you explain the when your in the police station with ( i forgot his name) he says he sees those creatures? So the officer is also a schizophrenic?
And mayor bartley is too? where did he go then if the "sepulcher" is a hallucination from alex's eyes?

Post by **Catch22** » 16 Mar 2010

Nobody really said the creatures were hallucinations, though. I was just assuming that Alex hallucinated while in the mental hospital, since the notes you pick up allude to the patient getting violent and attacking other patients. It would make sense that he was hallucinating that he was a soldier.

It's also possible that Alex is hallucinating Wheeler and the others, or in his head they are performing actions and saying things that they are not. Schizophrenia isn't cut and dry.

And, really, there's no other mental disorder that fits well with Alex... He doesn't merely suppress the memory of Josh, he experiences delusions and goes to a mental hospital. Forcible detainment in the hospital would likely not have been necessary if he was just in denial.

Post by **AuraTwilight** » 16 Mar 2010

The monsters are real in the non-dream parts of the game; everyone sees them.

And, really, there's no other mental disorder that fits well with Alex...

Which is my major gripe with the game. Alex is basically Hollywood Crazy.

Post by **SHF** » 16 Mar 2010

Wow, thats confusing. Has anyone here distinguished who and when he was hallucinating?

Post by **Catch22** » 16 Mar 2010

You can't. He's like an unreliable narrator in a novel... There's really no objective way to look at the story or figure out what's real and what isn't. You can really only guess, which I like.

Post by **AuraTwilight** » 17 Mar 2010

To put it in a simpler way, everything except his dream in the beginning is real (unless you get certain endings).

Post by **Catch22** » 17 Mar 2010

We don't know that. There's a lot that could have been imagined, hallucinated, or dreamt. Just because there was nobody there to say "Bad dream?" afterwards doesn't mean he doesn't have more dreams.

Post by **The Adversary** » 17 Mar 2010

There's nothing to indicate any other event in the game was a dream, save for the introduction in Alchemilla Hospital. Even in Silent Hill the audience is given clues of the two dream sequences.

Post by **Catch22** » 17 Mar 2010

Dreams aside, Alex was in a mental hospital, and since we see events from his perspective, it would make sense that what we see may be skewed by his mental state. He is an unreliable narrator. The game's indication of this is in his past and the In Treatment ending, which could very well be canon.

Who the hell knows if Josh is actually there, running away from Alex? I doubt it. Fact is, Alex's past and mental condition put everything we see into question. Same with James in SH2. The game doesn't need to spell it all out for us.

Post by **AuraTwilight** » 17 Mar 2010

Every other questionable scene involves another character that is objectively there, such as Mayor Bartlet. If we write these off as dreams, we have to admit that we don't know what happened with these characters. He's unreliable in his testimony, but we can trust what he sees via the game camera.

Post by **Catch22** » 17 Mar 2010

I don't think the camera is at all objective. It's in the third person, but that doesn't mean that we aren't still seeing the same things Alex is, albeit at a different angle.

And regarding the other characters--they aren't objectively there. Just because a character looks human and seems trustworthy doesn't mean that they or their behaviors aren't being altered by Alex. I'm not saying you're wrong, but you can't make a claim to objectivity in this case.

Post by **AuraTwilight** » 18 Mar 2010

All the characters see the exact same things Alex does, monsters and all. The only exception is Joshua, which we know is a delusion.

If we start using Alex's mental illness as an excuse to write off the existence and testimony of other characters, we don't have a storyline anymore. We just have a guy going nuts in a bathtub or a hospital bed. (dur hur)

Anyway, Alex's delusions don't seem to rewrite the world infront of his eyes, only his memories.

Post by **Catch22** » 18 Mar 2010

I never said everything was imagined, or that he is in a hospital bed or bathtub. But it's possible, isn't it? All endings could be canon. Just because you don't approve doesn't discount them. But that's not what I think anyway.

I think it is a mixture of real and imagined events, hallucinations and objective reality. We know Alex isn't well because he hallucinates Joshua, and is delusional regarding his death. This means he's still schizophrenic, which puts the entire narrative in doubt. That's my point. There is the possibility that some of the things we see are in Alex's head, excluding the dream.

The only proof I need are his hallucinations of Joshua. Even if his delusions affect only his past, he is actively hallucinating Joshua in the present.

My last point--if he's hallucinating some of the character's actions, the hallucinated characters would work only to reaffirm his delusions. They wouldn't say "I don't see any monsters." That clashes with the reality he's set up in his head.

Post by **Aldo** » 18 Mar 2010

Catch22 wrote:I never said everything was imagined, or that he is in a hospital bed or bathtub. But it's possible, isn't it? All endings could be canon.

Until another game references Homecoming we'll never know what ending is canon.