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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hill Homecoming in a separate canon? [spoilers]
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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The thing is that Homecoming already has plotholes and continuity discrepancies,, so even with this issue, it's more strenuous than Downpour.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hill Homecoming in a separate canon? [spoilers]
     
         
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Missing since: 25 Jun 2008
Notes left: 1766
Last seen at: Chicago
Homecoming's problem was that it muddled the continuities and conventions of the games and movie, creating a world where the Order and the Cult form the movie are one and the same. This was my biggest issue. That and the getting-rushed-by-hordes-of-monsters scenes, which to me is a Resident Evil thing to do and doesn't entirely fit in with SH's style.

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I dreamed I lay in a dark valley and all around me were the titanic forms of archangels. I heard distant voices and I knew these supernatural warriors were chanting a litany...
"We are the Warriors at the End of Time. We are the lost, the last, the unkind. We are the Warriors on the Edge of Time and we're tired, we're tired... We're tired of making love..."


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Moderator
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hill Homecoming in a separate canon? [spoilers]

Missing since: 21 Jul 2003
Notes left: 11978
Last seen at: Nova Scotia, Canada
When did Tomm say Alex reached Overlook by boat? Did he simply miss that Alex walked to Overlook which was very obviously inside Central Silent Hill? Unless he's moving Alchemilla and the surrounding areas of CSH to the island then that explanation is bullshit.

_________________
"I dreamt last night I saw you
A single spark explosion negotiating with the dead
By the bright lights in some ICU on my chest you put your head
and said "There you are.
There you are.
There's my heart..."


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Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hill Homecoming in a separate canon? [spoilers]
     
         
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Missing since: 18 Apr 2009
Notes left: 1399
Cyrus is right. Think of it like the movie Halloween Resurrection. At the end of the preceeding film Halloween H20 the protagonist chopped the killer's head off with an axe. In Resurrection, its excuse is that the killer switched clothes with a security guard and put his mask on him, and had crushed his larynx so he couldn't talk. This doesn't, for a second, mean that this is what's happening off screen when you watch H20, it doesn't become canon until you're watching Resurrection.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hill Homecoming in a separate canon? [spoilers]
     
         
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Missing since: 25 Jun 2008
Notes left: 1766
Last seen at: Chicago
Droo wrote:
When did Tomm say Alex reached Overlook by boat? Did he simply miss that Alex walked to Overlook which was very obviously inside Central Silent Hill? Unless he's moving Alchemilla and the surrounding areas of CSH to the island then that explanation is bullshit.

It's entirely possible that Overlook prison was moved. They could have built a newer, more secure prison on the island, and it was still owned by the same investors, so they still called it Overlook. This kind of thing happens a lot. Or maybe Overlook has two "campuses", one on the mainland for normal criminals, and the one on the Island for maximum security criminals.

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I dreamed I lay in a dark valley and all around me were the titanic forms of archangels. I heard distant voices and I knew these supernatural warriors were chanting a litany...
"We are the Warriors at the End of Time. We are the lost, the last, the unkind. We are the Warriors on the Edge of Time and we're tired, we're tired... We're tired of making love..."


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Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hill Homecoming in a separate canon? [spoilers]
     
         
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Missing since: 18 Apr 2009
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This is why I don't like the idea of keeping the town layout the same in every game.

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Where we're from, the birds sing a pretty song, and there's always music in the air.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hill Homecoming in a separate canon? [spoilers]
     
         
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Missing since: 23 Dec 2009
Notes left: 207
Last seen at: Silent Hill.
Droo wrote:
When did Tomm say Alex reached Overlook by boat?

He said it here, in response to one of your questions. I guess you missed it. :)

Droo wrote:
Did he simply miss that Alex walked to Overlook which was very obviously inside Central Silent Hill? Unless he's moving Alchemilla and the surrounding areas of CSH to the island then that explanation is bullshit.

Tomm is aware of the problems the retcon created.

He said (and I quote):

Tomm Hulett wrote:
Seriously, James can jump down a million holes and end up at the docks but this is a logic problem?


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hill Homecoming in a separate canon? [spoilers]
     
         
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Missing since: 25 Jun 2008
Notes left: 1766
Last seen at: Chicago
I like seeing the other areas and neighborhoods of Silent Hill, as well as what places looked like in different eras. I have no qualms with changing the layout a bit or showing a new area of the town. It keeps things fresh and it's not at all unrealistic. For example, people complain about Silent Hill growing, not being a "small town" anymore. Honestly, for a tourist town, it's still pretty small. It's an average-sized town at the most, the only thing making it seem spread out is the big-ass lake right in the middle separating everything.

As far as Overlook is concerned. It's hardly a plothole, and presents no canon inconsistencies. Institutions move into new buildings all the time, for many reasons. Many institutions have more than one property, all buildings bearing the same name. There is no plothole here, because this issue can logically be solved with almost no effort.

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Image
I dreamed I lay in a dark valley and all around me were the titanic forms of archangels. I heard distant voices and I knew these supernatural warriors were chanting a litany...
"We are the Warriors at the End of Time. We are the lost, the last, the unkind. We are the Warriors on the Edge of Time and we're tired, we're tired... We're tired of making love..."


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Moderator
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hill Homecoming in a separate canon? [spoilers]

Missing since: 21 Jul 2003
Notes left: 11978
Last seen at: Nova Scotia, Canada
rm2kking wrote:
It's entirely possible that Overlook prison was moved. They could have built a newer, more secure prison on the island, and it was still owned by the same investors, so they still called it Overlook.


Sorry, but no. Homecoming and Downpour take place in a relatively short time period of each other. This isn't like the layout of the town changing dramatically in the time between Silent Hill Origins/1 and Homecoming. Furthermore, why would a small resort town need two prisons? Even the one in Homecoming seemed out of place. Now you're suggesting there are two?

Also, this isn't like James and the Labyrinth and ending up at the docks. This is about something as basic as the placement of an enormous prison complex in a town. The map, which presumably reflects the Real World (hence the depiction of streets inaccessible due to chasms), depicts Overlook on that island in Downpour and, conversely, as being in Central Silent Hill in Homecoming.

The thing is, they could have avoided this entirely by just not depicting the damn prison on that island. There's nothing in Downpour that makes it that it couldn't be where it was in Homecoming.

_________________
"I dreamt last night I saw you
A single spark explosion negotiating with the dead
By the bright lights in some ICU on my chest you put your head
and said "There you are.
There you are.
There's my heart..."


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hill Homecoming in a separate canon? [spoilers]
     
         
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Missing since: 23 Dec 2009
Notes left: 207
Last seen at: Silent Hill.
So the issue lies with Downpour, not Homecoming.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hill Homecoming in a separate canon? [spoilers]
     
         
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Missing since: 25 Jun 2008
Notes left: 1766
Last seen at: Chicago
I agree with the last statement, Droo, but, would you like to see my town?
Image
In the bottom right, that's the actual town, everything else is industry. Factories, a large shopping complex with a Target and a Super Wal-Mart, a large AMC Imax movie theater, a car dealership, and huge quarry, all for a town that's 2 blocks wide and 5 blocks deep? No. Not solely for us. For us and everybody else who comes to shop there, and it pays much of our taxes and bills. Silent Hill is a tourist town, much of it caters to people not living there. We are also led to believe there is apparently a Toluca County. It's not uncommon for an entire county to share one prison complex. There is nothing unrealistic about the conclusions I have drawn.

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Image
I dreamed I lay in a dark valley and all around me were the titanic forms of archangels. I heard distant voices and I knew these supernatural warriors were chanting a litany...
"We are the Warriors at the End of Time. We are the lost, the last, the unkind. We are the Warriors on the Edge of Time and we're tired, we're tired... We're tired of making love..."


Last edited by rm2kking on 01 Apr 2012, edited 2 times in total.

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Moderator
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hill Homecoming in a separate canon? [spoilers]

Missing since: 21 Jul 2003
Notes left: 11978
Last seen at: Nova Scotia, Canada
So Overlook is the prison for the entire region?

Does that mean that's where Walter was imprisoned?

_________________
"I dreamt last night I saw you
A single spark explosion negotiating with the dead
By the bright lights in some ICU on my chest you put your head
and said "There you are.
There you are.
There's my heart..."


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hill Homecoming in a separate canon? [spoilers]
     
         
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Missing since: 23 Dec 2009
Notes left: 207
Last seen at: Silent Hill.
Droo wrote:
So Overlook is the prison for the entire region?

Does that mean that's where Walter was imprisoned?

Unless he can time travel, no.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hill Homecoming in a separate canon? [spoilers]
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Feb 2009
Notes left: 7982
Last seen at: Nowhere
Silent Hill tends to shape many things to whoever is experiencing it's events. The change could be explained in such way.

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Moderator
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hill Homecoming in a separate canon? [spoilers]

Missing since: 21 Jul 2003
Notes left: 11978
Last seen at: Nova Scotia, Canada
Cyrus Hanley wrote:
Droo wrote:
So Overlook is the prison for the entire region?

Does that mean that's where Walter was imprisoned?

Unless he can time travel, no.


Why is that?

Mephisto: The town changes depending on who is there, yes, but the map has always seemed to present the town as it actually exists. This is not something like the monsters looking one way to one person and another way to the other. This is about Homecoming's map showing near Alchemilla and Downpour's showing it on an island, combined with Tomm's own admission that it's a retcon.

What I'm saying is, it's a retcon that renders Homecoming's last act impossible, and therefore seems to erase the game.

_________________
"I dreamt last night I saw you
A single spark explosion negotiating with the dead
By the bright lights in some ICU on my chest you put your head
and said "There you are.
There you are.
There's my heart..."


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hill Homecoming in a separate canon? [spoilers]
     
         
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Missing since: 25 Jun 2008
Notes left: 1766
Last seen at: Chicago
Walter lived in Ashfeild right? Wasn't Ashfield a day's drive away from SH? Just consider it, there's nothing plot-holey in the idea.

You just seem to want to disagree with me, dismissing my idea offhand like that:
Quote:
Sorry, but no.

I live in a tiny town. We have a fire department that serves a fourth of the country. These kinds of societal set-ups are things I've lived with all my life. There's nothing about my idea that does not happen in the real world.

_________________
Image
I dreamed I lay in a dark valley and all around me were the titanic forms of archangels. I heard distant voices and I knew these supernatural warriors were chanting a litany...
"We are the Warriors at the End of Time. We are the lost, the last, the unkind. We are the Warriors on the Edge of Time and we're tired, we're tired... We're tired of making love..."


Last edited by rm2kking on 01 Apr 2012, edited 1 time in total.

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Moderator
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hill Homecoming in a separate canon? [spoilers]

Missing since: 21 Jul 2003
Notes left: 11978
Last seen at: Nova Scotia, Canada
I don't think anything in Maine is an entire day's drive away from anywhere else in the state.

By way of illustration, it takes 9 hours to drive from where I live to the province's main city.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?saddr=Thomps ... ls&t=m&z=6

Maine can be stacked on itself twice in the distance between Thompson and Winnipeg.

I don't see why criminals from Ashfield couldn't be shipped off to Overlook. Furthermore, Walter was arrested in Silent Hill.

Also, your answer doesn't address my real confusion: why would he have to time travel?

_________________
"I dreamt last night I saw you
A single spark explosion negotiating with the dead
By the bright lights in some ICU on my chest you put your head
and said "There you are.
There you are.
There's my heart..."


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hill Homecoming in a separate canon? [spoilers]
     
         
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Missing since: 25 Jun 2008
Notes left: 1766
Last seen at: Chicago
I didn't say anything about time traveling. That was Cyrus.

Also, it's possible Ashfield isn't in Maine, but in a nearby state.
There are inconsistencies in some ways, but as for the prison possibly having moved or having two buildings, that's a perfectly plausible explanation. I was merely attempting to come up with a reason Overlook appears in two places, and the idea I came up with makes sense to me. Beyond that, I don't know.

_________________
Image
I dreamed I lay in a dark valley and all around me were the titanic forms of archangels. I heard distant voices and I knew these supernatural warriors were chanting a litany...
"We are the Warriors at the End of Time. We are the lost, the last, the unkind. We are the Warriors on the Edge of Time and we're tired, we're tired... We're tired of making love..."


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Moderator
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hill Homecoming in a separate canon? [spoilers]

Missing since: 21 Jul 2003
Notes left: 11978
Last seen at: Nova Scotia, Canada
My mistake re: identity.

If Ashfield is in a different state entirely, why is there a sign depicting its distance in Downpour? Why would they bother naming such a distant city on a sign in Silent Hill? Wouldn't it make more sense to direct people to places in the state?

_________________
"I dreamt last night I saw you
A single spark explosion negotiating with the dead
By the bright lights in some ICU on my chest you put your head
and said "There you are.
There you are.
There's my heart..."


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hill Homecoming in a separate canon? [spoilers]
     
         
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Missing since: 25 Jun 2008
Notes left: 1766
Last seen at: Chicago
There's signs here by Chicago pointing the way to both Indianapolis and St. Louis.

_________________
Image
I dreamed I lay in a dark valley and all around me were the titanic forms of archangels. I heard distant voices and I knew these supernatural warriors were chanting a litany...
"We are the Warriors at the End of Time. We are the lost, the last, the unkind. We are the Warriors on the Edge of Time and we're tired, we're tired... We're tired of making love..."


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