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Silent Hill Homecoming in a separate canon? [spoilers]
http://silenthillforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=23164
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Author:  leftshoe18 [ 14 Feb 2011 ]
Post subject:  Silent Hill Homecoming in a separate canon? [spoilers]

--Homecoming Spoilers--

I've come to a conclusion that Silent Hill: Homecoming is in the Silent Hill movie's canon. There are a few reasons for this deduction:

1. The Grand Hotel - while it's possible that it exists in the main canon (we never explored further up Simmons Street), it's an obvious nod to the movie.

2. Pyramid Head - he appears in his movie incarnation. In the movie, he is a punisher and executioner of the cult. In Homecoming, he is Adam's punisher and executioner. Adam is a member of the cult (though not the same cult).

3. The Map - the map contradicts previous Silent Hill maps. I'm not just talking about the building placements. Toluca Lake is restructured in a way that makes parts of Silent Hill's and Silent Hill Origins' map impossible.

Now, I realize that there's plenty of evidence against this and I'll put what I can think of here:

1. Alchemilla Hospital - Alex spends some time at Alchemilla, showing that Silent Hill isn't the ghost town of the movie.

2. Travis - Travis, a character within the main canon, appears near the beginning of Homecoming.

--

So, that's my stance. It may not necessarily be in the movie's canon, but I really believe that it's a separate canon due to the map issue. This isn't just me wishing that Homecoming wasn't canon, I just don't think it is.

Author:  Typographenia [ 14 Feb 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Silent Hill Homecoming in a separate canon? [spoilers]

leftshoe18 wrote:
I've come to a conclusion that Silent Hill: Homecoming is in the Silent Hill movie's canon.

--------------

It may not necessarily be in the movie's canon, but I really believe that it's a separate canon due to the map issue.

So... it is? n't?

Just because of the setting you say it's part of "movie canon?" I'm sorry, but that's not going to cut it for me. I'm not saying what is and isn't canon, but that seems far too weak a link to make it take place in the same vein as the film. Even your Pyramid Head connection doesn't work because he was a punisher/executioner in sh2.


If there was mention of characters, set pieces from the movie, or anything that made a connection to something other than a location might make me buy it.

Also, what's the point of making this distinction? The game used recent visuals from the movie in an attempt to get a larger audience for the next entry in the silent hill series. Does that suddenly dictate an alternative silent hill universe? Shattered Memories is the only one I give the luxury of any sort of "alternate" silent hill because it's a reimagining. The series doesn't need to have a zelda timeline fiasco, as far as I'm concerned.

Author:  clips [ 14 Feb 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Silent Hill Homecoming in a separate canon? [spoilers]

^^^Yeah....He pretty much nailed it...i even think homecoming makes some type of reference to past games if i remember correctly....i think it mentioned douglas name if i'm not mistaken. So even if it took some nods from the movie, ultimately it still exists within the original's universe.

Author:  Nyarlathotep [ 14 Feb 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Silent Hill Homecoming in a separate canon? [spoilers]

The map causes some improbabilities between it and Origins', but it doesn't really contradict the first Silent Hill. I'd think this is because Homecoming was in development alongside Origins, which was already having an iffy development cycle itself.

As far as story is concerned, the game has a Travis cameo and it references Douglas Cartland in a memo. With those two references in it's also safe to say the mention of a cop from Brahms is referring to Cybil from the first game.

The visual references to the movie never brought over any of its story.

Author:  The Adversary [ 14 Feb 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Silent Hill Homecoming in a separate canon? [spoilers]

>The visual references to the movie never brought over any of its story.<
The cult symbol is atop the church's chapel. And don't forget the miners. . . .

>the game has a Travis cameo and it references Douglas Cartland in a memo<
This is irrelevant: Alessa, Dahlia, Cybil, and others are all used in the film. So, by the same logic, Silent Hill: Movie coincides with the Silent Hill game series, and is therefore part of the game's canon. Using the same names for the same characters allows for the two to be in separate continuities as alternate/parallel continuities—or, "canons," if you'd rather.

Author:  stopped_clock [ 14 Feb 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Silent Hill Homecoming in a separate canon? [spoilers]

Nyarlathotep wrote:

the mention of a cop from Brahms is referring to Cybil from the first game.



Who is also in the movie...

But no, I don't think that an inconsistency with the map warrants a separate canon.

Author:  Nyarlathotep [ 15 Feb 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Silent Hill Homecoming in a separate canon? [spoilers]

The Adversary wrote:
>The visual references to the movie never brought over any of its story.<
The cult symbol is atop the church's chapel. And don't forget the miners. . . .


Yet there's no mention of any character or event from the film. The cross is definitely an example of a reused design from the movie... But it has its own differences in Homecoming, like everything else derived from the movie. Within the context of Homecoming's story it's a symbol for the four founding families of Shepherd's Glen, not a witch burning cult in Silent Hill. It also has the simplified Halo of the Sun that's used throughout the game.

Also the mining suits are hinted to be from the Shepherd's Glen coal mine.


Quote:
This is irrelevant: Alessa, Dahlia, Cybil, and others are all used in the film. So, by the same logic, Silent Hill: Movie coincides with the Silent Hill game series, and is therefore part of the game's canon. Using the same names for the same characters allows for the two to be in separate continuities as alternate/parallel continuities—or, "canons," if you'd rather.


There's a difference. The movie was a rewriting of the events in Silent Hill 1... Homecoming is a new story entirely. It's showing connections to characters we know from the past games. Nothing would lead us to believe this is not the Douglas Cartland from Silent Hill 3 or the Travis Grady from Silent Hill: Origins.

Author:  Kenji [ 15 Feb 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Silent Hill Homecoming in a separate canon? [spoilers]

I've also played with the idea of Homecoming being attached to the movie, not because I dislike Homecoming so much that I don't want it touching the "main canon," but because I didn't think the movie was that bad and it would've been nice to have had a game that explored that world.

However, to do this, I would have to ignore and/or replace quite a few details to make it stick. I bought it, so it's my prerogative if I want to do that, but I can't go and proclaim it's so to other people. There are many reasons, but one is paramount above all others: In the movie, Silent Hill has been abandoned for decades; in Homecoming, Sam Bartlett worked in Silent Hill (despite being the mayor of Shepherd's Glen and there being some kind of running taboo against going there... I didn't say it made complete sense).

I wouldn't have minded Homecoming being attached to the movie, nor would I have minded the premise that Silent Hill is a supernatural/psychological state that manifested "on top" of Shepherd's Glen. However, it's pretty clear that neither of those are what the developers had in mind and, unless Konami says otherwise (and they won't), it's official and canon.

Author:  Harrys_Girl [ 18 Feb 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Silent Hill Homecoming in a separate canon? [spoilers]

^They are almost the same experience. Coal-fires, sexy nurses and trips to non-existent places! OH MY!

My biggest peeve w/ it is that Homecoming made SH to look like 5 different cities thrown together. What town do you know of, EVER, to have a mental hospital and a prison and label itself a "tourist town"? It would've worked for the SH of the movie, because it was set up as a religious sanctuary style dealio. I could totally see thrown the vast majority of the Church/Cult's enemies away in a mental hospital or a prison. Not like you can burn everyone!!! But in Homecoming, it doesn't work. A prison in the middle of the shopping district and the mental hospital in the middle of a business district? Not ever going to happen. I've lived in a town w/ a maximum security prison. Legally, no public buildings could be w/n 10 mi.s of the prison's front gates. The prison was another mi. away from the gates. Not gonne be able to put in a Hot Topic, Macy's and McDonald's anywhere near there.

Author:  Soulless-Shadow [ 18 Feb 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Silent Hill Homecoming in a separate canon? [spoilers]

Harrys_Girl wrote:
What town do you know of, EVER, to have a mental hospital and a prison and label itself a "tourist town"?

The only place I can think of is Beechworth in North-East Victoria, Australia. I've been there once or twice (loooooooong time ago). It has May Day Hills Lunatic Asylum (closed, but has regular ghost tours), HM Prison Beechworth (closed in 2004, but still standing. I don't think it's open to the public), and the Beechworth Correctional Centre (open in 2005. Minimum security). It sort of fits the bill. It's a tourist town with an asylum and two prisons (even though they're medium/minimum security). So it is possible.

Harrys_Girl wrote:
A prison in the middle of the shopping district and the mental hospital in the middle of a business district? Not ever going to happen. I've lived in a town w/ a maximum security prison. Legally, no public buildings could be w/n 10 mi.s of the prison's front gates. The prison was another mi. away from the gates. Not gonne be able to put in a Hot Topic, Macy's and McDonald's anywhere near there.

Yeah, that is a bit weird. It's been a while since I've visited Beechworth, but I doubt either prisons are close to the centre of town, let alone residential buildings. I know May Day Hills is situated in the La Trobe University's gardens though.

Author:  DeSilva [ 21 Feb 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Silent Hill Homecoming in a separate canon? [spoilers]

leftshoe18 wrote:
--Homecoming Spoilers--

I've come to a conclusion that Silent Hill: Homecoming is in the Silent Hill movie's canon. There are a few reasons for this deduction:

1. The Grand Hotel - while it's possible that it exists in the main canon (we never explored further up Simmons Street), it's an obvious nod to the movie.

2. Pyramid Head - he appears in his movie incarnation. In the movie, he is a punisher and executioner of the cult. In Homecoming, he is Adam's punisher and executioner. Adam is a member of the cult (though not the same cult).

3. The Map - the map contradicts previous Silent Hill maps. I'm not just talking about the building placements. Toluca Lake is restructured in a way that makes parts of Silent Hill's and Silent Hill Origins' map impossible.

Now, I realize that there's plenty of evidence against this and I'll put what I can think of here:

1. Alchemilla Hospital - Alex spends some time at Alchemilla, showing that Silent Hill isn't the ghost town of the movie.

2. Travis - Travis, a character within the main canon, appears near the beginning of Homecoming.

--

So, that's my stance. It may not necessarily be in the movie's canon, but I really believe that it's a separate canon due to the map issue. This isn't just me wishing that Homecoming wasn't canon, I just don't think it is.


You just gave me more ammunition to bash homecoming with.

But yeah, I see what you mean. I didn't hold the movie cannon at all, but after considering this, it makes too much sense. Impressive that you put those together. it's like Silent Hill has been split down the middle, we have the first four games, and then the rest of them, at least, more and more that's how I'm coming to see it.

Author:  Cheryl,Heather...whatever [ 17 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Silent Hill Homecoming in a separate canon? [spoilers]

Harrys_Girl wrote:
^They are almost the same experience. Coal-fires, sexy nurses and trips to non-existent places! OH MY!

My biggest peeve w/ it is that Homecoming made SH to look like 5 different cities thrown together. What town do you know of, EVER, to have a mental hospital and a prison and label itself a "tourist town"? It would've worked for the SH of the movie, because it was set up as a religious sanctuary style dealio. I could totally see thrown the vast majority of the Church/Cult's enemies away in a mental hospital or a prison. Not like you can burn everyone!!! But in Homecoming, it doesn't work. A prison in the middle of the shopping district and the mental hospital in the middle of a business district? Not ever going to happen. I've lived in a town w/ a maximum security prison. Legally, no public buildings could be w/n 10 mi.s of the prison's front gates. The prison was another mi. away from the gates. Not gonne be able to put in a Hot Topic, Macy's and McDonald's anywhere near there.



Well, in Europe its kinda Normal, Dublin (Where I come From), Belfast, Galway, London, Manchester, LiverPool, Paris, Berlin, Moscow.

Not Sure how it is in the U.S.A but in these Cities I have mentioned, there are Prisons and Mentel Institutions. In Dublin there is Mountjoy Prison which is surrounded by residential properties and a Hospital is locatated accross the street from it.

its not a Mental Institution however. That would be Dundrum, which is accross the street from a Shopping Centre (Shopping Mall)

Author:  Agent of God [ 17 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Silent Hill Homecoming in a separate canon? [spoilers]

Well, I totally agree. As simple as that.
I've also expressed my opinions on Homecoming not being canon a couple of years back.

I consider it being set in a "middle" fused universe, betwean the movie and the previous games.

Author:  NeoRanger [ 19 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Silent Hill Homecoming in a separate canon? [spoilers]

Ehm, I haven't played the game since it came out so my memory is kind of iffy on the details, but... isn't it a lot more likely that Homecoming is a little careless about continuity or, indeed, consistency with the series 1-6, than being into a different continuity altogether? If anything, there are small things that contradict the theory outright.

Author:  Henry Kane [ 20 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Silent Hill Homecoming in a separate canon? [spoilers]

Official games = canon, if not specifically stated otherwise. Simple as that.

Even if some may not like it.

Author:  SilentWren [ 20 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Silent Hill Homecoming in a separate canon? [spoilers]

^I feel that way, too. But it still doesn't explain the map inconsistencies.
It may be something small, but it's important.
On a related note: weren't there map issues in Origins as well?

Author:  Agent of God [ 20 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Silent Hill Homecoming in a separate canon? [spoilers]

Henry Kane wrote:
Official games = canon, if not specifically stated otherwise


"Official" eh?
You ready to put Silent Hill: Arcade into that mix? It was never "officially" stated that it's not canon.
80% of this forum is all about interpretation. And frankly? That's what's keeping Silent Hill alive.

Author:  SilentWren [ 20 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Silent Hill Homecoming in a separate canon? [spoilers]

^The arcade game didn't have anything to do with anything, though.
Wasn't it just a bunch of random people shooting up monsters? Or was there some kind of story line?

I agree that it's a bad idea to blindly accept anything that has Konami approval, but if it's a main game, it's "intended" to be canon, right?
(I'm taking liberties with SM right here, because it relates to the first game the same way O Brother, Where Art Thou? relates to The Odyssey.)

Author:  The Adversary [ 20 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Silent Hill Homecoming in a separate canon? [spoilers]

>A prison in the middle of the shopping district and the mental hospital in the middle of a business district? Not ever going to happen.<
Leavenworth Prison is in the middle of Leavenworth, Kansas. It can be seen from the main road.

Author:  AuraTwilight [ 20 Mar 2011 ]
Post subject:  Re: Silent Hill Homecoming in a separate canon? [spoilers]

Quote:
^The arcade game didn't have anything to do with anything, though.
Wasn't it just a bunch of random people shooting up monsters? Or was there some kind of story line?


It did have a plot, and in my personal opinion it was a decent plot that could've been developed more. It explores the Little Baronness and the mystery of how it sank, with some elements of reincarnation being touched up upon.

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