It Didn't Take That Much from the Movie

[The Adversary]

>Did you just seriously call Call of Duty a murder simulator?<
I don't believe I used either of those terms together to describe Call of Duty.

>But my point here is more like this: what sanctity?<
"You're the worst person in this room. You come here and enjoy spilling their blood and listening to them cry out. You feel excited when you step on them, snuffing out their lives."

>He doesn't go around like Solid Snake, "strategically" taking each member out one by one.<
I certainly did after performing numerous head shots while they were turned away.

>the fact that they're "transformed" into monsters kind of excludes them from being human.<
That's exactly what the game's writers weren't suggesting. . . .

[Skele]

>He doesn't go around like Solid Snake, "strategically" taking each member out one by one.<
I certainly did after performing numerous head shots while they were turned away.

yeah, and you can do this in practically every other SH game as well. sure you can't do headshots since the games auto-aim, but you can strategically kill them from a distance. just get the handgun, or rifle, and fire away.

We <3 you

[The Adversary]

>yeah, and you can do this in practically every other SH game as well.<
Those aren't humans, remember. ;)

[Skele]

golly gosh Adversary, what point are you trying to make? it doesn't matter if it's actual monsters or humans, you can kill a majority of the enemies from a distance in just about all the games.

[SPRINGS02]

First im gonna say, COD is not a murder simulator it's supposed to be more of a war simulator. Technically grand theft auto would be closer to a murder simulator because you can go around killing innocent pedestrians.

As for the human monsters, well they looked stupid honestly. They were unscary and boring. It was a horrible idea to have them in the game because it takes away from the little atmosphere the game tries to have. Yeah we fought eddie in SH2 but that was one guy, and it was a completely different circumstance. In SHH beating the shit out of a good number of order members just felt stupid . People in hoodies are NOT scary.

It didn't borrow a HUGE amount from the movie but some of the stuff it did borrow didn't help the game.

Kira, don't try to explain anything else. Haters always gonna hate, no matter how "solid" the argument really is.

Same thing happens when I defend the movie, but this isn't the place for that discussion.

Boohoo, maybe you're argument just wasn't that solid? Yeah we get it you guys like homecoming but saying things like "don't bother you'll never understand" makes it look like you're just upset that a lot of people don't feel the same way you guys do and you can't make a good argument to defend the game you like.

[KiramidHead]

^I was responding to the people that say "it borrowed from the movie, it sucks." How is that a solid argument by any definition?

[SilentWren]

^I was responding to the people that say "it borrowed from the movie, it sucks." How is that a solid argument by any definition?

My current viewpoint on Homecoming (might change later...don't know the future.....) is that "Homecoming fucking sucked! Oh, by the way, it also ripped off the movie too much."

It kinda seems like you're creating a straw man fallacy, here.

[The Adversary]

>golly gosh Adversary, what point are you trying to make?<
Not the point you're trying to defend. If you can't understand—or bother to understand—the point you're attempting to attack, or defend, maybe you shouldn't even try. [See below for an example of you missing the point entirely.]

>it doesn't matter if it's actual monsters or humans, you can kill a majority of the enemies from a distance in just about all the games.<

>My current viewpoint on Homecoming [. . .] is that "Homecoming fucking sucked! Oh, by the way, it also ripped off the movie too much."<
There we go. Someone gets it. Silent Hill: Homecoming sucking so much ass is not exclusively correlated to how much its designers took from the movie. The game just . . . sucks. If the film didn't even exist, SH:H would still be shit.

What's with all the SH:H apologists lately? I was under the impression the people who dislike it had all gotten over it and stopped caring entirely. But then there's this recent influx of "Nuh-uh!"s and we've got to pretend to care again. Are we so bored with the series the only thing left to discuss is why peoples' opinions about the games themselves are wrong. . . ?

[Soulless-Shadow]

bah, people getting their panties in a bunch because we actually kill normal people in Homecoming. Do people forget about Eddie in SH2? it's the same thing going on, we just do more of it in Homecoming.

It's the same thing, but it isn't the same thing, all at the same time. Eddie and the soldiers were in self defence, but, after killing Eddie, James was upset about having killed another human being. Meanwhile Alex barely flinched.
Both knew they were killing other humans, even if it was in self defence, but one was upset and the other didn't react at all.

[SPRINGS02]

^I was responding to the people that say "it borrowed from the movie, it sucks." How is that a solid argument by any definition?

I haven't seen anybody in this thread say that and i haven't seen people in general say it very much. It's like wren and adversary said, people aren't saying it sucks just because it borrows from the movie they're saying it sucks as a silent hill game in general. I would go a step further and say IMO as a video game in general it's not very good at all.

[KiramidHead]

Really, I just wanted to point out that the movie references were relatively few in number and mostly minor aspects of the game. And truth be told, I didn't care much for the Order soldiers, but not because they were human enemies. They're piss easy to fight even on my first playththrough because their AI sucks, making the last level feel like a tutorial after fighting schisms and needlers for so long. Their design was the only thing I really liked about them.

[Skele]

>golly gosh Adversary, what point are you trying to make?<
Not the point you're trying to defend. If you can't understand—or bother to understand—the point you're attempting to attack, or defend, maybe you shouldn't even try. [See below for an example of you missing the point entirely.]

>it doesn't matter if it's actual monsters or humans, you can kill a majority of the enemies from a distance in just about all the games.<

Nah, i get it. i just think you're being ridiculous. you basically presented this state of mind for Alex that doesn't exist. sure Alex killed human beings, but that doesn't mean that he did it for pleasure, or didn't feel bad about it as you suggest. he also didn't go "Columbine" on them as Aura suggests. These order members aren't innocent victims here that Alex just decided to kill for no good reason.

Also, James kills Eddie for the exact same reason that Alex kills the members, which is self defense. Eddie is trying to kill James and says "I'll kill you James!" during your last encounter with him. In SHH the order members receive orders which state "Kill Him!" when you encounter them in the prison... So what the hell is Alex supposed to do, try and hug it out? The only difference in the games is James has a bit of dialogue which states how he feels after killing Eddie.

I don't recall Alex saying anything after killing order members, however you dislike SHH so much that you view him killing them as the worst thing ever. In your mind he doesn't kill them in self defense, he just goes around "strategically" murdering these innocent order members for no reason, right? You overlook the obvious facts because of your hatred for the game. You even bring up gameplay elements that are in just about every game in the series to help support your ridiculous argument. it's a shame, really.

[KageReneko]

Also, James kills Eddie for the exact same reason that Alex kills the members, which is self defense. Eddie is trying to kill James and says "I'll kill you James!" during your last encounter with him. In SHH the order members receive orders which state "Kill Him!" when you encounter them in the prison... So what the hell is Alex supposed to do, try and hug it out? The only difference in the games is James has a bit of dialogue which states how he feels after killing Eddie.

That's the problem about human enemies in Silent Hill, they just don't work in ths kind of game... You can't compare the death of Eddie with those moronic Order Soldiers (Since when did the Order start to hire evil henchmen to take down our heroes?? Oh wait... SH3)... Every human enemy in the previous SH games were human, you had the time to know them and maybe understand them so their deaths can affect not just your character, also you (Walter, Eddie, Claudia and even Leonard); they're just people carried away by their passions and weaknesses... They attacked you so you had to finish them, but you still wondering how would their lives be without the shit that happened to them...

Do you remember Resident Evil? You kill tons of zombies without wink, but to kill a zombie THAT YOU KNOW is totally different (Marvin, Dario, Brad, Steve's Father)... You can't help to feel a bit sad by their fates; man, I even feel so bad by that poor girl in RE3 that you see running away from the zombies just to find her dead a couple of doors later...

Every human in SHH is totally unnecesary, just Alex' parents seem to have a real personallity but everyone else are bland, stupid and ridiculous when you compare them to the previous games... Even helen and Richard Grady have better backgrounds and you also feel kinda bad when you have to fight them...

It's true that Alex didn't have other option besides fighting the Order soldiers that attacked him, but would be nice to have at least a damn cinema of Alex trying to talk with them, being attacked and forced to fight back... THEY MADE A DAMN CINEMA FOR THE STUPID BUG ENEMIES!!

[Wigeke]

I don't recall Alex saying anything after killing order members

That's exactly the problem, considering the breakdown he had last time he killed someone he should be pretty disturbed for killing anyone again. James was shaken when he killed Eddie so there is no contradiction there.

[KiramidHead]

^Yeah, Alex had a breakdown, from killing his mother. That's a bit different from killing faceless masked dudes who are actively trying to bash your face in with pipes, and who are pretty much responsible for putting his mother in that position in the first place.

I've been thinking, maybe Double Helix wanted us to feel uncomfortable about this. They give you the option to listen to a conversation between two Order Soldiers who both seem on edge about the situation. Maybe they didn't give Alex a reaction because they wanted the players to react themselves. IDK, but it's a possibility.

[KageReneko]

I've been thinking, maybe Double Helix wanted us to feel uncomfortable about this. They give you the option to listen to a conversation between two Order Soldiers who both seem on edge about the situation. Maybe they didn't give Alex a reaction because they wanted the players to react themselves. IDK, but it's a possibility.

No... They aren't that smart...

[KiramidHead]

Zip your fly up, your bias is showing.

[stopped_clock]

I've been thinking, maybe Double Helix wanted us to feel uncomfortable about this. They give you the option to listen to a conversation between two Order Soldiers who both seem on edge about the situation. Maybe they didn't give Alex a reaction because they wanted the players to react themselves. IDK, but it's a possibility.

No... They aren't that smart...

This is exactly the kind of attitude that winds me up about people who hate on Homecoming. It's that whole "well they didn't make a game that I liked, therefore they must be total retards who are incapable of any kind of thought."

There is an absolute tonne of depth to Homecoming that people write off just because they don't like the game, or can't be bothered to look past their own negative preconceptions regarding it.

(Don't get me wrong, it's still my least favourite SH game, well, Homecoming and SH3 are on the lowest rung of the ladder for me, but they are both still good games)

That being said, I do think the order soldiers are kinda dumb, but then maybe Alex doesn't react so badly to killing faceless goons because of his *cough*military history*cough*

[KageReneko]

I can't expect too much from a development team that made a game whose symbolism just dissapears once you know the ending... Really, every weird thing, every cryptic message... EVERYTHING but the messages of ther prisons is related with the twist plot in the end...

I can't avoid to think that Silent Hill Homecoming is a good game but is a bad Silent Hill game, I like to play it but its bugs, its unskippable cinema before the fight with Scarlet, its bad check point system at the prison, its unnecesary multiple menu screens and its few savepoints (Just ONE savepoint at Shepherd's Glenn?? Really?? Not a DAMN savepoint on Alex's home??) just annoy me...

I enjoy the boss battles, some creature designs and some of the levels but the bad points surpass the good ones... The only good point of the game is the combat but lacks originallity besides that... Even the idea of the alternate costumes come from SH0!!

It's a shame that Double Helix never tried to think by themselves and tried to give us a good soldier story with ghosts of the war and everything; but no... They weren't that smart; they had an amazing plot concept and just wasted it...

[stopped_clock]

It's a shame that Double Helix never tried to think by themselves and tried to give us a good soldier story with ghosts of the war and everything; but no... They weren't that smart; they had an amazing plot concept and just wasted it...

And you've done it again. Clearly their intention wasn't to make it a story about war, not really, but a story about family, duty, sacrifice and loss. All that you're proving with comments like that is (and I really hate to say this because normally this is the lamest argument for explaining why someone didn't like a game) that you didn't really get the point of Homecoming.

Also

I can't expect too much from a development team that made a game whose symbolism just dissapears once you know the ending... Really, every weird thing, every cryptic message... EVERYTHING but the messages of ther prisons is related with the twist plot in the end...

you're annoyed by the fact that the game neatly ties it's symbolism into the story, I don't understand. Would you have preferred random, unrelated stuff to be thrown in that didn't apply to the story? Irrelevant symbolism? (I think maybe I've misunderstood your point here, if I have then I apologise )

I will give you the item/weapon inventory screens. I don't know how on earth they playtested this game thoroughly without anyone noticing that their inventory system was a piece of crap.