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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hill Homecoming feels like an American Horror fil
     
         
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Missing since: 09 Jun 2010
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Yeah, on that first point I guess I did misunderstand you. My bad.

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Who said i was only talking about story? I won't deny that horror stories can have similar plot devices but it's more than that. A big part of psychological horror is disturbing imagery also. The abstract atmosphere of silent hill is pretty unique.

HOO SED I WUZ TALKING BOUT ABSTRACT ATMOSPHERE DERP.

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Not really(feel free to use some examples though). And keep in mind i never said it favors japanese horror either.

Read again, I noted a few examples, if you want me to elaborate-
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Sixth Sense-LOL HES DEAD
Jacob's Ladder-LOL HES DEAD/DYING- A lot of stuff in the movie revolves around the death of his son and he just doesn't realize it yet
The Machinist-LOL AMNESIA (He hit-and-ran some kid and then forgot about it, and all the little details ended up manifesting themselves in this hallucination he's been living in for the last year. He has a tormentor figure that keeps trying to remind him of what he did- Sound familiar?
Session 9-LOL AMNESIA-KILLED WIFE!

Among multitudes of others, seeing a pattern here? Most of these aren't just super underground videos either, they're nearly household names in psychological horror, so that must say something.

I never said that you said it favored Japanese horror either. To quote a great philosopher
Nietzsche wrote:
STOP MISQUOTING ME!


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. . .what do jump scares have to do with anything? I never mentioned them.

You're right, I totally wasn't just using them as an example of others criticism of "American horror", and I totes tried to quote you saying about them :roll:

My point being, most of the supposedly "japanese" elements people have pointed out in the first 4 games other than 4 are actually more western elements. It shouldn't take Team Silent saying flat out that the games are intended for a western audience for people to figure that out. But apparently it does :cry: . Silent Hill certainly wasn't the first story to use something that specific in its story telling and overall approach, and it certainly isn't the last.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hill Homecoming feels like an American Horror fil
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Jun 2009
Notes left: 3831
Last seen at: i'm sick of these monkey fighting snakes on this monday to friday plane.
Quote:
HOO SED I WUZ TALKING BOUT ABSTRACT ATMOSPHERE DERP.


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I already explained that i consider psychological horror to be more than just a story. And i said that similar plots have been used, so yeah.

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I never said that you said it favored Japanese horror either.


But i never said that you said that i said that(fuck this is getting confusing) it favored japanese horror, i just said to "keep in mind" that i never said that. Just in case you might of thought that i might be trying to argue that it relies on japanese horror.

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You're right, I totally wasn't just using them as an example of others criticism of "American horror", and I totes tried to quote you saying about them


Again, i didn't say you were trying to quote me i was just wondering what they had to do with anything we were talking about. No need to jump to conclusions.

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My point being, most of the supposedly "japanese" elements people have pointed out in the first 4 games other than 4 are actually more western elements. It shouldn't take Team Silent saying flat out that the games are intended for a western audience for people to figure that out. But apparently it does . Silent Hill certainly wasn't the first story to use something that specific in its story telling and overall approach, and it certainly isn't the last.


Other than story what western elements are there really though? I've already explained that i don't think story is the only important element for psychological horror games. Disturbing atmosphere is just as important, and in that aspect i don't really see a similarity between silent hill or anything else(western or japanese)

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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hill Homecoming feels like an American Horror fil
     
         
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Missing since: 09 Jun 2010
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So did you just happen to discover a list of logical fallacies and think you're like... intelligent just because you can point everything out and essentially discredit someones argument (when really it does nothing of the sort?). You seem to be doing that a lot today. Just so you know, you can't invalidate someones argument by pointing out something that was clearly a joke and then cry OMG APPEAL TO RIDICULE (Which I believe is the correct term for it). My point still stands

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I already explained that i consider psychological horror to be more than just a story. And i said that similar plots have been used, so yeah.

More like carbon copies... Well, actually, the other way around.

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Other than story what western elements are there really though? I've already explained that i don't think story is the only important element for psychological horror games. Disturbing atmosphere is just as important, and in that aspect i don't really see a similarity between silent hill or anything else(western or japanese)

Yeah, but even the atmosphere has a certain western flavor to it to an extent, the reason for this is catering to American horror fans. I think you missed the point of this topic entirely (LOLOL I SAID THE MAGIC WOOOORD), is that the OP was expressing how this felt like an American horror movie when in reality the series was always catering to a western audience anyways.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hill Homecoming feels like an American Horror fil
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Jun 2009
Notes left: 3831
Last seen at: i'm sick of these monkey fighting snakes on this monday to friday plane.
Quote:
So did you just happen to discover a list of logical fallacies and think you're like... intelligent just because you can point everything out and essentially discredit someones argument (when really it does nothing of the sort?).


That's kind of, ironic? Relax, i've taken a reason an argument class myself so i know a little about this stuff. It's just fun to do it when im debating with you because of how much you seem to like to throw terms like these around. Even when they don't apply.

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You seem to be doing that a lot today. Just so you know, you can't invalidate someones argument by pointing out something that was clearly a joke and then cry OMG APPEAL TO RIDICULE (Which I believe is the correct term for it). My point still stands


I seem to being doing this a lot today? Aren't you one to talk Mr. "Everything you say against me in an argument is an Ad hominem or straw man even when it's not". And no, it's not appeal to ridicule because i actually addressed your argument, i didn't just put a pic up and leave it at that. I just found that pic funny and had been waiting for a chance to use it honestly. Now let's get back to the core debate.

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Yeah, but even the atmosphere has a certain western flavor to it to an extent, the reason for this is catering to American horror fans. I think you missed the point of this topic entirely (LOLOL I SAID THE MAGIC WOOOORD), is that the OP was expressing how this felt like an American horror movie when in reality the series was always catering to a western audience anyways.


What western flavor? I don't recall seeing anything too similar to the atmosphere in western or japanese horror really(more specifically in video games) And again, no i haven't missed the point of the topic. I was merely responding to AITT and then you.

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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hill Homecoming feels like an American Horror fil
     
         
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Missing since: 09 Jun 2010
Notes left: 494
Quote:
That's kind of, ironic? Relax, i've taken a reason an argument class myself so i know a little about this stuff. It's just fun to do it when im debating with you because of how much you seem to like to throw terms like these around. Even when they don't apply.

Bitch please...

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I seem to being doing this a lot today? Aren't you one to talk Mr. "Everything you say against me in an argument is an Ad hominem or straw man even when it's not".


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This coming a guy who's gotten his feathers ruffled over silent hill debates? Strange.

Is that not an Ad Hominem?In reality I got frustrated after having to repeat myself a number of times that I'm certain went into the double digits, because you couldn't grasp what I was trying to say. Anybodies nerves would be tested after something like that. Once again, bitch pl0x.

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Nice try on talking down to me though, makes me wonder if you just don't like that i "dissed" a site you really enjoy

Putting something in quotation marks doesn't automatically make it plainly obvious... Thus I perceived what you said as a straw man. It's not like you blasted it through a megaphone.

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And no, it's not appeal to ridicule because i actually addressed your argument

I was correcting you, I never said what you did was an appeal to ridicule, I was saying what you were referring to was an appeal to ridicule. HUGE DIFFERENCE.

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Now let's get back to the core debate.

Progress at last!!!!
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What western flavor? I don't recall seeing anything too similar to the atmosphere in western or japanese horror really(more specifically in video games) And again, no i haven't missed the point of the topic. I was merely responding to AITT and then you.

And once again you come crashing down...

You have missed the point of the topic entirely, you may say you haven't, but you have.

You did say
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Well as far as video games they kind of do. For now anyway.

Did you not. Ryan was referring to how a lot of Silent Hill fans seem to think there's this split distinction when there isn't

I'm getting the feeling that we're actually agreeing on this but everything is getting lost in translation, correct me if I'm wrong.


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Moderator
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hill Homecoming feels like an American Horror fil
     
         
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Missing since: 21 Jul 2003
Notes left: 11961
Last seen at: Nova Scotia, Canada
Holy catfight Batman.

Both of you cut it out. You're not debating anymore. You're playing a game of "mine is bigger".

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A single spark explosion negotiating with the dead
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and said "There you are.
There you are.
There's my heart..."


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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hill Homecoming feels like an American Horror fil
     
         
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Missing since: 09 Jun 2010
Notes left: 494
But it is :(


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My Bestsellers Clerk
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hill Homecoming feels like an American Horror fil
     
         
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Missing since: 08 Aug 2010
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I think it's an utter failure as a Silent Hill game because so many things are wrong. However, I did kind of enjoy it as a stand-alone game. It wasn't scary in the slightest, but it was an interesting attempt by an american company.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hill Homecoming feels like an American Horror fil
     
         
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Missing since: 26 Mar 2010
Notes left: 1875
Last seen at: Los Angeles
Uyrikeustek wrote:
I think it's an utter failure as a Silent Hill game because so many things are wrong. However, I did kind of enjoy it as a stand-alone game. It wasn't scary in the slightest, but it was an interesting attempt by an american company.

I'm curious as to if you wouldn't mind elaborating upon what you felt made it an "interesting attempt," since you seem to find it as a "failure." Was it something to do with gameplay, story, structure of the experience, characters, or what?


And, on topic, did it feel like "an american horror film" to you?


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hill Homecoming feels like an American Horror fil
     
         
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Missing since: 11 Sep 2011
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Uyrikeustek wrote:
I think it's an utter failure as a Silent Hill game because so many things are wrong. However, I did kind of enjoy it as a stand-alone game. It wasn't scary in the slightest, but it was an interesting attempt by an american company.

:| This guy hasn't done anything else other than post in the post-SH3 games' forums whining about the fact that they're somehow not ''related'' to the previous games. You don't even elaborate on the other things you have to evaluate in the game.

Seriously, I think it's been enough, and you've been proved wrong before, there's really no reason as to why you keep doing this.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hill Homecoming feels like an American Horror fil
     
         
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Missing since: 14 Aug 2011
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Last seen at: Pete`s Bowl `O Rama- Eating pizza
I`m reviving my old thread because I haven't been on in awhile but I didn't realise I would make people argue or have major conflicts. Sorry folks I feel partly responsible I just thought it was an interesting topic to make.

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Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hill Homecoming feels like an American Horror fil
     
         
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Missing since: 18 Apr 2009
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American horror movie? Maybe... But a GOOD one. Maybe a Stephen King one.

It gets more graphic than the first three (SH4 has some incredibly graphic moments) but all of the gore makes sense in terms of the story.

Something I've always said about Homecoming is that it feels most like Silent Hill 1. I mean 3 is the sequel to 1 but it also borrows from 2 in terms of atmosphere. Homecoming feels more like an HD Silent Hill 1 sequel than anything else, before the subtle psychological stuff took over the rusty lovecraftian horror. Seriously, play SH1 and then Homecoming, you barely feel the transition to Double Helix studios, not the way you do when going from 2-3.

You also have to remember that the original Silent Hill was Japanese people trying to create American horror. Pretty much all of its inspirations were American horror and members of the team have said a few times that this was the case. The result is a rather awesome hellish world combining all the 'best of horror', but with a bit of a Japanese edge to it. Homecoming is Americans mimicking Japanese mimicking Americans, and I think that is the main factor in the 'identity crisis' it seems to have. Downpour's atmosphere and integrity really shines due to it not trying to be what it isn't, whilst Homecoming struggles in that department since it's trying to be something else.

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Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hill Homecoming feels like an American Horror fil
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Oct 2010
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I really don't see many similarities between SH1 and Homecoming at all. I think Homecoming, especially towards the end of the game, struggles to have atmosphere... the music is decent but the enemy choices, area design and story often sabotages it. Contrast that to SH1 which has an abundance of atmosphere that never lets up throughout the game.

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Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hill Homecoming feels like an American Horror fil
     
         
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Missing since: 18 Apr 2009
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It does die out towards the end of the game, for sure, mainly because it's Hostel influence (which I'm more than okay with, it was always about American horror influence) doesn't lend itself much to extreme tension. One of those games which was better towards the start/middle. But Homecoming has Hell Descent, Hell House, the hospital etc. The story is no more flawed than the SH1 one, sorry to say but it's true, it's just that flawed story and dialogue in games were more what we expected back in 1999.

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Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hill Homecoming feels like an American Horror fil
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Oct 2010
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We'll have to agree to disagree with regards to SH1's story, I actually think it holds up pretty well. Sure it has stilted dialogue, but what I love about it is the weird other-wordly David Lynch feeling that the story has. On the other hand, Homecoming's story and dialogue is bad for the worst possible reasons, it's full of bland cliches and uninspired choices. So it's a different kind of bad, and one that I personally find no redeeming value in.

But I agree that Homecoming is going for an American horror feel, the problem is that it seems to have chosen some really bad influences like Hostel. If it wanted to deliver an American horror feel, it should have drawn influence from some of our good horror movies, stuff like David Lynch, (which the early games obviously draw inspiration from) David Cronenberg, John Carpenter, Wes Craven... but instead it just sort of half heartedly rips off Hostel and SH2 and delivers the story in a straightforward and bland manner like a throwaway modern horror movie for teens. And that's just a damn shame because there's so many great American horror movies out there it could have drawn inspiration from!

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hill Homecoming feels like an American Horror fil
     
         
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Missing since: 22 Jun 2006
Notes left: 1924
Last seen at: Katz Street
I'v never seen much of a difference between American and Japanese horror. I'v seen both do about the same things, with both having their good and bad examples. The main reason people say anything about Homecoming is due to it's torture porn influences (which was popular at the time, but seems to be dying off a bit lately, thankfully) like Hostel or Saw.
I have to say the torturing seemed pointless and unrealistic to me, with the characters having no motivation to torture(I know there are other exampes withen the game. I'm trying to keep this short.). It had cliches in it that were noticable, but I didn't think "American horror!". All I seen was a style of horror I really am not a fan of because of how uninteresting it is and boring.
Considering the series has always had heavy American influences, as mentioned countless times in this thread i'm sure, I see no reason to single this game out. It's only fault is borrowing from a less inspired type of horror, or atleast not having talented enough writers to know how to utilize it better....however that may be possible.

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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hill Homecoming feels like an American Horror fil
     
         
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Missing since: 19 May 2009
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" It had cliches in it that were noticable, but I didn't think "American horror!". All I seen was a style of horror I really am not a fan of because of how uninteresting it is and boring."

That is true.
American horror has got many great examples that have nothing in common with this recent brain-dead torture/splatter crap.
Fortunately, like you said, it seems to be dying off.

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hill Homecoming feels like an American Horror fil

Missing since: 26 Mar 2012
Notes left: 34
I like cenimatic games, and what I liked about Homecoming is being able to related to Alex of finding his little brother. It was a sad game, for me at least, it scared me so much I had to pause and take a breath.

I don't think I can get my point across clearly enough. It's entertainment and that's what I get from both movies and games, being a part of the experience on screen. And being able to play with a character I can be in an american horror story is just great for me. I try to find a good side with everything in movies and games. I mostly play kids game, by the way, so I wouldn't be playing dark scary games all the time because I can't get through it sometimes without a friend.

Speaking of films, I didn't know where to mention this but the 2008 film, The Disappeared, reminded me a lot of Homecoming. A brother that just comes from a hospital, tries to find his brother and occassionally sees him. I think his dad is abusive too. I couldn't stop thinking of it and thought I should mention it.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hill Homecoming feels like an American Horror fil
     
         
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Missing since: 22 Jun 2006
Notes left: 1924
Last seen at: Katz Street
Nel wrote:
I like cenimatic games, and what I liked about Homecoming is being able to related to Alex of finding his little brother. It was a sad game, for me at least, it scared me so much I had to pause and take a breath.

I liked Alex too, but I felt no more for him than any other character in the series honestly. I pretty much knew where the story was going with that particular plot element, as most did. Plus, I felt SH2 had already done it much better. Homecoming didn't exactly tug any heart strings for me or induce any real fear, though i'm not trying to say it's a bad thing it did for you personally.

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Silent Hill Homecoming feels like an American Horror fil

Missing since: 26 Mar 2012
Notes left: 34
Silent Fantasy wrote:
I liked Alex too, but I felt no more for him than any other character in the series honestly. I pretty much knew where the story was going with that particular plot element, as most did. Plus, I felt SH2 had already done it much better. Homecoming didn't exactly tug any heart strings for me or induce any real fear, though i'm not trying to say it's a bad thing it did for you personally.



I was genuinely shocked at the ending and I get scared easily by horror games, and for Homecoming the beginning was terrifying for me.
I do know that Homecoming isn't perfect but I like it. I would say that 2 is my favourite and it is actually the best, but I finished Homecoming first. It's a human thing where I find sentimental value in everything.
I mean the guy is trying to find his little brother. That broke my heart already when the kid kept running away. Not from Alex but from me. I just wanted him to be safe but I couldn't. I have some younger siblings that I just miss and want safe. Maybe that's it.


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