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Should the Bogeyman be considered a standalone monster?
Poll ended at 11 May 2012
Yes. 50%  50%  [ 11 ]
No. 36%  36%  [ 8 ]
I don't know. 14%  14%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 22
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Just Passing Through
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Cyrus Hanley wrote:
The idea that the town implanted the executioner figure in his subconscious is valid, but it doesn't explain the origins of the helmet.

I thought that it would be the other way around. The town senses James' guilt and desire to be punished, and uses this to manifest Pyramid Head (using its own executioner figure, i.e. the Valtiel sect) as its basis. This is the first time I've heard of the town "implanting ideas" into people's minds -- I thought that it extracts them.

Cyrus Hanley wrote:
But, that last reason doesn't account for the lack of a Maria figure in the painting (just a faceless, almost formless corpse) and the figure's use of a spear rather than a giant blade.

Pyramid Head killed Maria using his spear, not his Great Knife. Both times: In Brookhaven and in Lakeview Hotel. Also, Maria has no relevance to Toluca Prison, the Historical Society or the Valtiel sect... so I don't know why she'd have to be in the painting anyway. It's still a valid and possible reason. It'd be kind of weird to see a painting of a woman you've just met hanging in a museum, anyway.

Cyrus Hanley wrote:
It doesn't have to be Pyramid Head and there's no evidence that it is, which is what I've been trying to tell you.

While that's true, it does look exactly like Pyramid Head and is holding a spear. If it annoys you, then just reword it to "a figure resembling Pyramid Head" on the wiki, but *don't* remove the information because it's still extremely notable.


Also, while searching around, I found this:

http://cghub.com/images/view/56749/
http://cghub.com/images/view/159997/

The senior artist of Homecoming, Mayan Escalante, refers to the Bogeyman as "Pyramid Head". So I wouldn't disown anyone who believes Bogeyman/Pyramid Head are synonymous names.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Alex420 wrote:
Cyrus Hanley wrote:
The idea that the town implanted the executioner figure in his subconscious is valid, but it doesn't explain the origins of the helmet.

I thought that it would be the other way around.

That's what I think too, I was just trying to rationalise your claim.

Alex420 wrote:
The town senses James' guilt and desire to be punished, and uses this to manifest Pyramid Head (using its own executioner figure, i.e. the Valtiel sect) as its basis.

Sorry to revive a zombie, but now I have to ask this: Why isn't Pyramid Head manifested for Angela then? And possibly Eddie?

There's gotta be something more than the town that influences the physical appearance of the creatures, otherwise anybody who feels guilty and walks into Silent Hill is bound to have Pyramid Head manifested for them.

Alex420 wrote:
This is the first time I've heard of the town "implanting ideas" into people's minds -- I thought that it extracts them.

I thought that was what you were getting at, but obviously not.

Alex420 wrote:
Cyrus Hanley wrote:
But, that last reason doesn't account for the lack of a Maria figure in the painting (just a faceless, almost formless corpse) and the figure's use of a spear rather than a giant blade.

Pyramid Head killed Maria using his spear, not his Great Knife. Both times: In Brookhaven and in Lakeview Hotel.

I stand corrected, Pyramid Head was wielding a spear.

Alex420 wrote:
Also, Maria has no relevance to Toluca Prison, the Historical Society or the Valtiel sect... so I don't know why she'd have to be in the painting anyway. It's still a valid and possible reason. It'd be kind of weird to see a painting of a woman you've just met hanging in a museum, anyway.

So… Maria can't appear in a (within the context of this tangential discussion) manifested painting but Pyramid Head can?

Sure, Pyramid Head has contextual relevance to Toluca Prison and the Valtiel sect but that doesn't change the fact he's just a manifestation like Maria. I don't see why two manifestations couldn't (and wouldn't) appear in the same painting together, especially when the painting itself is (as you put it) a manifestation (either by the town or James) and a representation of James's consternation/guilt/feeling of responsibility/whatever.

Alex420 wrote:
Cyrus Hanley wrote:
It doesn't have to be Pyramid Head and there's no evidence that it is, which is what I've been trying to tell you.

While that's true, it does look exactly like Pyramid Head and is holding a spear. If it annoys you, then just reword it to "a figure resembling Pyramid Head" on the wiki, but *don't* remove the information because it's still extremely notable.

I've done it before, even including the reasons I've outlined, but it's always been reverted.

Alex420 wrote:
Also, while searching around, I found this:

http://cghub.com/images/view/56749/
http://cghub.com/images/view/159997/

The senior artist of Homecoming, Mayan Escalante, refers to the Bogeyman as "Pyramid Head". So I wouldn't disown anyone who believes Bogeyman/Pyramid Head are synonymous names.

?

I don't disown Escalante, but you have to understand the context of the art - the Bogeyman was created as an expy of Pyramid Head, much like the Butcher in Origins. In the early stages of the game, he basically was Pyramid Head with a facelift. I don't deny any of that.

But, as the game was further developed, he gained his own little "backstory" and name.

It's easy to go back now and point at him, saying, "Look, he's Pyramid Head, it says so right there!"

But you need to consider context. Ideas and concepts change and evolve during development, some are even dropped entirely. Escalante (and Kenzie LaMar) drew pictures of Joshua Shepherd's reanimated corpse. That idea obviously didn't make it into the game.

Travis Grady's character model was based on concept art by Kenzie LaMar depicting a hunter character Alex would have interacted with in the game. Does that mean they're the same character? No, it was a natural character evolution.

Early concept art of Pyramid Head by Masahiro Ito resembles the monster we would later come to know as "Valtiel". Does that mean Pyramid Head is Valtiel? No! Character concept evolution.


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Just Passing Through
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Cyrus Hanley wrote:
Sorry to revive a zombie, but now I have to ask this: Why isn't Pyramid Head manifested for Angela then? And possibly Eddie?

There's gotta be something more than the town that influences the physical appearance of the creatures, otherwise anybody who feels guilty and walks into Silent Hill is bound to have Pyramid Head manifested for them.

I already answered this for Angela: Abstract Daddy. Eddie shows no desire to be punished and doesn't feel any guilt. In fact, he seems happy and pleased by his killing(s).

Monsters are influenced by the minds of the people. It's likely why he appears different for both James and Alex. The subconscious and the town are the two factors which influence a monster's appearance. The mystical power of the town is extremely intelligent -- an oppressive force. It chooses monsters for specific reasons.

Cyrus Hanley wrote:
So… Maria can't appear in a (within the context of this tangential discussion) manifested painting but Pyramid Head can?

I really don't feel like talking about why Maria isn't in the painting. I was simply pointing out that one of the possible reasons for the painting was to show that James was still feeling guilty - it doesn't have to mean Maria has to be put in the painting in order to show this. Still very plausible, you know? I just feel like talking about it is like beating a dead horse.

...

I understand that concept art doesn't reflect the final version, but it's still very notable and could still suggest he is Pyramid Head. In the beginning, the Bogeyman was referred to as Pyramid Head -- that much is fact.

If the concept art isn't enough for you, there's also this in the game's files:
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/345/phfiles.jpg

I bet you're probably just going say something like "well, that's not actually part of the game, it's just code you never see." Meh. I honestly really couldn't care less, but it's just one more thing to consider about the plausibility of Pyramid Head and the Bogeyman being the same entity. :|


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 Post subject: Re: Should the Bogeyman be considered a standalone monster?

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I've made my opinion on this matter known, so I'm just going to throw this out there.

Tomm Hulett, a Konami employee with more access to information and creator intent than us, also believes that Pyramid Head in SH2 is something exclusive to James and was simply based on the appearance of the "ancient executioners". He also says that Pyramid Head won't be appearing in games like Shattered Memories and Downpour because "he belongs to James".

So, at the very least, the current canon of the series supports the opinion that Pyramid Head


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Historical Society Historian
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^Finally. Thank God for posting that. Like I said on the first page, I've always felt that way. Sure, Bogeyman was based off of Pyramid Head's design, but that doesn't mean that they can't serve for different people, and essentially that is their main difference.

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Just Passing Through
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NanayaShiki wrote:
Tomm Hulett, a Konami employee with more access to information and creator intent than us, also believes that Pyramid Head in SH2 is something exclusive to James and was simply based on the appearance of the "ancient executioners". He also says that Pyramid Head won't be appearing in games like Shattered Memories and Downpour because "he belongs to James".

...which is why he's going to appear in Book of Memories and Revelation. (oh, the irony...)
I believe Tomm has also stated that Book of Memories is a canon game.


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Historical Society Historian
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Yes, but Tomm's definition of 'canon' is "Everything officially produced by Konami", because he understands the value of letting fans produce their own personal series mythos.

That being said, Revelation is a sequel to an alternate-universe movie and Book of Memories is all sorts of playing by it's own rules with the implication that the Otherworld is getting molested by memory-rewriting.

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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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For murdering her sexually-abusive father, Angela gets a monster that resembles two figures fused together on a bed frame having coitus. For murdering his wife, James gets… a figure that resembles a cult executioner? That doesn't make any sense. His incessant excuse-making suggests otherwise. (Taken from a Silent Hill 2 transcript.) "It wasn't me! I didn't do it!" "I didn't do anything. I, I swear! He was like this when I got here…" "I didn't do it. I swear I didn't kill anybody." "B-But… it wasn't my fault. He, he made me do it!" "That guy... he, he had it coming! I didn't do anything. He just came after me! Besides he was making fun of me with his eyes! Like that other one…" "Whadda ya mean 'Just for that'!" "Oh yeah! Why not? Til now I always let people walk all over me. Just like that stupid dog. He had it coming too!!" "He he. I was just jokin', James. He was dead when I got here. Honest. Anyway, I gotta run." "What does it look like? He always busted my balls. 'You fat disgusting piece of shit! You make me sick!' 'Fat-ass, yer nothin' but a waste of skin.' 'You're so ugly, even you're mama don't love you!' Well maybe he was right. Maybe I am nothing but a fat, disgusting piece of shit. But ya know what? It doesn't matter if your smart, dumb, ugly, pretty...it's all the same once yer dead. And a corpse can't laugh. From now on, if anyone makes fun of me... I'll kill em. Just like that."" That's only when James meets him in the Historical Society (and later, the Labyrinth). God only knows what happened to him between Pete's Bowl-O-Rama and then, before that he was rather defensive and cagey. What's stopping James and Alex from having the exact same figure manifested for them by the town when they both feel guilty about killing a loved one? Are you suggesting that there's a palette of monsters the town chooses from? Why would he feel guilt for something that doesn't resemble Maria at all and in fact resembles the monsters that have been attacking him throughout the game? Okay. I agree that it's notable and suggests he's Pyramid Head. It doesn't mean he is Pyramid Head. No objection here. That's more notable and certainly eyebrow-raising. Thanks for the contribution. Ah, you know me too well. Yes, it's what I would have said. The amount of left-over/unused code game developers leave in the final product is rather fascinating and often provides a window into the development process. Yes, it can be used to support the claim that the Bogeyman was at one point in development known as "Pyramid Head". But that was during development and you and I both know there's a huge difference between the drawing board and the actual game. Tomm Hulett said that prior to his authoring the Bogeyman Nursery Rhyme, the character that we now know as the Bogeyman was referred to as Pyramid Head. Because he basically was, his physical appearance was directly influenced by Pyramid Head in the Silent Hill. But the character was further developed, gaining his own "backstory" and mythos in the process. Looking beyond the obvious physical similarities is important, otherwise you may as well lump in Straight-Jacket and Smog under "Lying Figure" and Wormhead, Double Head, Sniffer Dog and Feral under "Groaner". Not to mention all the Nurses. Oh, I know it's plausible. I believed it myself for a while, until I did some further reading (incidentally, on the Silent Hill Wiki) and thinking. I just want to break the status quo that the Wiki has about the Bogeyman being Pyramid Head, because it's not definitively confirmed yet it's still stated as fact. That's interesting, I think I remember reading this in an interview, possibly on this very web site. I'll have to dig it out and have a read later. Anyway, as an addendum, I'd like to add that Tomm worked with designer Jason Allen on the Bogeyman and even wrote the nursery rhyme. If he ever makes a statement about the Bogeyman's relation (or lack thereof) to Pyramid Head, it would basically be Word of God.

NanayaShiki wrote:
So, at the very least, the current canon of the series supports the opinion that Pyramid Head

I'm not sure what to make of this. I think your post got cut off.

I'm pretty sure that Tomm doesn't (and will never) have a say in Pyramid Head's appearances within the Silent Hill film adaptions. For one thing, he's not the screenwriter of Revelation - in fact, he's not a screenwriter at all. Secondly, he's not the film director either - in fact, he's not a film director at all. Thirdly, he doesn't own the franchise. Fourthly, he answers directly to Konami and what Konami wants, Konami gets. Not to mention the fact that the film adaptions exist in an alternate continuity in an alternate universe. Source?


Last edited by Cyrus Hanley on 01 Mar 2012, edited 1 time in total.

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Just Passing Through
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Jesus fucking christ, do you NOT know what the meaning of "stop quoting so much" is?
15 times, Cyrus, 15 times. This is like the fifth time we've asked you to stop with all the incessant quoting. Seriously, this is just plain rude and disrespectful. Why should I even reply to you if you're going to continue this? I feel as if every teeny tiny little sentence I say is going to get raped by you, and it's so bad to the point where I'm borderline "screw this, I'm out."

By the way, here's your source in which Tomm states Book of Memories is canon.
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=24228


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Woodside Apartments Janitor
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About BOM being Canon....with all of the creatures from past games being in it...PH,Valtiel..nurses..and all of the silly RPG elements, i would advise against it, but i guess they could make vague references to it in future games if they wanted to, but i think it would fair better if it just existed in it's own universe.

The way it's set up just seems like a senseless( but maybe fun) multiplayer romp...it just doesn't seem like a game to take that serious for it to be considered part of the canon universe...


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Brookhaven Receptionist
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PyramidFace said something on here that I really liked.
It was along the lines of, "In BoM, YOU are in Silent Hill. It's your character. What comes to mind when you think of SH? PH, Nurses, etc."
I love that idea. It explains why those monsters will be in BoM, other than them just being awesome.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Regarding Eddie's quotes in Tillerman's post, I always felt like he wasn't lying to James out of guilt, but more so to avoid the consequences of his actions.

I don't think there is a simple logic to what Silent Hill brings out in those it summons, honestly. I prefer to think of the town's energy as impersonal and neutral; it doesn't WANT anything from James or Eddie or whoever. They each harbored enough negativity for that energy to attract them, and beyond that point I imagine the town is little more than a stage for whatever is being unconsciously suppressed. Because James unconsciously desired punishment and knew enough about the history of Silent Hill, a warped and sexualized distortion of those concepts was rendered flesh-and-blood. Angela's pathology was different, because she was a victim of abuse, changing her idea of what it means to be punished.

I will have to do some more reading to figure out how Alex and his demons fit into the equation, but my starting point is to remember who Bogeyman actually ended up punishing. It wasn't Alex.


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 Post subject: Re: Should the Bogeyman be considered a standalone monster?

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Alex420 wrote:
...which is why he's going to appear in Book of Memories and Revelation. (oh, the irony...)
I believe Tomm has also stated that Book of Memories is a canon game.

As Aura said, the movies are something completely unrelated. That's neither here nor there. And as for Book of Memories being canon and having Pyramid Head in it, again as Aura said, when Tomm talks about the canon of the series, he doesn't always mean the canon of "the main timeline", as some people like to refer to it. For example, Shattered Memories is canon, yet unrelated to the timeline of the other games (as far as official statements go, but let's not get into THOSE theories again).

Now, don't jump to conclusions about Pyramid Head being in Book of Memories. You have no idea what the story for that game is really going to be. And, hell, I maintain my "bad SH fanfiction writer gets trapped in SH" theory. :p
Or as an alternate idea, it could be "SH theorist who takes canon very seriously gets trapped in SH, and watches as their greatest horror comes to life - canon inconsistency errors everywhere!!11!"
But yeah being serious, just wait and see. Using something we know little to nothing about as an example is pointless.

Cyrus Hanley wrote:
I'm not sure what to make of this. I think your post got cut off.

Hmm, not sure what I was doing that I forgot to finish the post and then submitted it. Oh well. I wasn't going to say anything profound, I was just going to end with reiterating that as of right now, with the people the series is currently being written and developed by, the Pyramid Head creature from SH2 is a monster exclusive to James.

And here are two examples, one from 2009 and one from last month, to show consistency.
http://www.destructoid.com/destructoid- ... 0901.phtml
Tomm: I subscribe to the idea that Pyramid Head was unique to James Sunderland in Silent Hill 2. He's not just some guy who walks around with a big knife. [...] Without the emotional ties to James, he loses his impact and is just a cheap scare, and that's doing a disservice to such an iconic character.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjuZnOvVOxU
"Pyramid Head only belongs in Silent Hill 2, because he is a specific manifestation of James' guilt and remorse."

That being said, this doesn't "prove" the argument of if Bogeyman should be considered something different from Pyramid Head. Even Tomm goes on in both examples to say that Homecoming went on to use Pyramid Head poorly. At the very least, I think that the intent at the time behind the Bogeyman was for him to be Pyramid Head.

However, at least some of the current people in charge of the franchise clearly don't agree with that and neither do a lot of fans. And I do personally believe that the original intent behind Pyramid Head in SH2 was that he was something exclusive for James and he was not meant to be reused later on in the series. Every single example people who try to argue that Pyramid Head was around before and after James can be easily countered by the fact that Pyramid Head of SH2 is physically identical to what the executioners of Silent Hill's past looked and dressed like. Meanwhile, there are several official sources from way back when that state that Pyramid Head is born from James as a manifestation of his own personal problems.

Therefore, regardless of what the intent behind the Bogeyman in Homecoming was, I think the issues it creates in terms of continuity and thematic relevance to James, as well as Tomm Hulett's own personal beliefs that Pyramid Head is exclusive to James, is enough for some fans to decide to consider the Bogeyman a separate entity. Personally, this is how I came to terms with the Bogeyman. I do not consider him the same thing as Pyramid Head from SH2. I've gotten into this argument way too many times. In fact, I think one of these arguments was the very first discussion I was a part of when I first joined this forum. So, you all can believe what you want to believe, but I'm going to maintain that I think you are wrong if you think Pyramid Head was around before James or is the same thing as the Bogeyman.

After all, it's an easier to explain it away as being two different entities (they were both based on ancient executioners appearance, as it's already confirmed Pyramid Head was) as opposed to explaining them being the same entity (he was manifested from James as it is confirmed but somehow was also something in the town's past or maybe the town decided to somehow keep him and he was able to exist without James manifesting him because magic or something idunno). And if we occam's razor this bitch, well... the result is obvious.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Alex420 wrote:
Jesus fucking christ, do you NOT know what the meaning of "stop quoting so much" is?
15 times, Cyrus, 15 times. This is like the fifth time we've asked you to stop with all the incessant quoting. Seriously, this is just plain rude and disrespectful. Why should I even reply to you if you're going to continue this? I feel as if every teeny tiny little sentence I say is going to get raped by you, and it's so bad to the point where I'm borderline "screw this, I'm out."

I'm sorry that you feel that my style of argument has personally offended and/or violated you.

If it makes you feel better, I will be removing all of your quotes and condensing the arguments into passages of text.

Alex420 wrote:
By the way, here's your source in which Tomm states Book of Memories is canon.
http://silenthillforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=24228

Cool, thanks.

Alex420 wrote:
NanayaShiki wrote:
Tomm Hulett, a Konami employee with more access to information and creator intent than us, also believes that Pyramid Head in SH2 is something exclusive to James and was simply based on the appearance of the "ancient executioners". He also says that Pyramid Head won't be appearing in games like Shattered Memories and Downpour because "he belongs to James".

...which is why he's going to appear in Book of Memories and Revelation. (oh, the irony...)
I believe Tomm has also stated that Book of Memories is a canon game.

Now, I don't mean to disrespect Tomm, but I just want to point out that he has a flip-flopped before about issues of canon.

"In an earlier interview I stated that this was a separate universe/canon from the PS1 original. However, I regret giving that answer; I didn’t realize the gravity of the question. Silent Hill is very unique as a series, because the games themselves are about a subjective reality. Each game has multiple endings and an argument could be made that each one of them is the "real" ending. This makes it very hard to even identify the “canonical” elements of the series as a whole. We know James went to Silent Hill looking for Mary… but we don’t know how or if he left. Not really. Shattered Memories, like the other games, deals with a subjective reality centered around the town of Silent Hill – I would say it’s just as canonical as any of the games. No, Shattered Memories doesn’t replace SH1 in the continuity. However, that doesn’t necessarily mean it isn’t canonical. That, after all, is what sets Silent Hill apart from other video game series." - Tomm Hulett

Which is fine. Silent Hill is a delicate IP to manage with an equally delicate fan base.


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SHH Cult Subscriber
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 Post subject: Re: Should the Bogeyman be considered a standalone monster?

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That's not flip-flopping. Flip-flopping suggests that he goes back and forth between two radically different positions. All he did was clarify his intentions by changing the way he chooses to define "canon" in regards to that specific game.


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Just Passing Through
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Just some more things to consider.

http://www.bradygames.com/store/product ... 0744010438
"Unlock Pyramid Head’s helmet and other extra outfits."

http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2008/11/ ... omecoming/

"We were interested in exploring the nature of Pyramid Head. Placing him within "Homecoming" wasn’t a decision that was taken lightly. If we could not create a consistent reasoning for his presence then we would not put him in at all. In "Silent Hill 2" Pyramid Head represented James’s desire for punishment, but you could say that all creatures in "Silent Hill" are some form of emotional manifestation. In "Homecoming" we tried to maintain that same resonance. In "Homecoming" he was the embodiment of a myth [that] parents started to keep the children out of trouble."

http://silenthillheaven.com/main/shhf_shsminterview/

"On Homecoming I helped Designer Jason Allen figure out Pyramid Head’s “purpose,” and I wrote the Bogeyman nursery rhyme which you can find on drawings throughout that game." - Tomm Hulett

http://web.archive.org/web/201105141024 ... -hill.html

When the Bogeyman figure was out on Konamistyle, it was called "Red Pyramid Thing - Bogeyman version". Pyramid Head is also known as Red Pyramid Thing.


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Just Passing Through
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I think The Bogeyman is more of an extension of Pyramid Head.

In 2 he was reflecting how James feels by the way he acts.
Attacks him= he whats to be punished
Kill Maria=reminder
Second Pyramid Head=Killing Eddie like Mary
Pseudo raping monster= his urges

In Homecoming he reflects Adam's and Alex's feelings.
Alex was a sacrifice that Adam failed to do and in a way The Bogeyman could've of been Alex monster form for his dad or maybe not.
Bogeyman's knife look similar to a military-issue combat knife reflecting Adam and maybe
the combat knife used.
Bogeyman was after Adam because he felt guilty for attempting to kill Alex.
He felt he should be punished for that and failing the sacrifice.

In a way Pyramid Head is like an vessel that is called or the town sends that takes pieces of the person.

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Missing since: 12 May 2008
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Last seen at: Houston, Tx.
Alex420 wrote:
Just some more things to consider.

http://www.bradygames.com/store/product ... 0744010438
"Unlock Pyramid Head’s helmet and other extra outfits."

http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2008/11/ ... omecoming/

"We were interested in exploring the nature of Pyramid Head. Placing him within "Homecoming" wasn’t a decision that was taken lightly. If we could not create a consistent reasoning for his presence then we would not put him in at all. In "Silent Hill 2" Pyramid Head represented James’s desire for punishment, but you could say that all creatures in "Silent Hill" are some form of emotional manifestation. In "Homecoming" we tried to maintain that same resonance. In "Homecoming" he was the embodiment of a myth [that] parents started to keep the children out of trouble."

http://silenthillheaven.com/main/shhf_shsminterview/

"On Homecoming I helped Designer Jason Allen figure out Pyramid Head’s “purpose,” and I wrote the Bogeyman nursery rhyme which you can find on drawings throughout that game." - Tomm Hulett

http://web.archive.org/web/201105141024 ... -hill.html

When the Bogeyman figure was out on Konamistyle, it was called "Red Pyramid Thing - Bogeyman version". Pyramid Head is also known as Red Pyramid Thing.


Nail, meet coffin. It seems the developers always intended the two monsters to be the same, just with slight variations in appearance and purpose.


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SHH Cult Subscriber
SHH Cult Subscriber
 Post subject: Re: Should the Bogeyman be considered a standalone monster?

Missing since: 26 Apr 2009
Notes left: 3229
JKristine35 wrote:
Nail, meet coffin. It seems the developers always intended the two monsters to be the same, just with slight variations in appearance and purpose.

Well, first off, no not really. When talked about outside of official in-game examples, "Pyramid Head" can easily be thrown around to mean the image of the character. We call the PH in the SH movie "Pyramid Head" as well, that doesn't mean we are implying it's the same thing as the Pyramid Head from SH2 when it's clearly not. So it's not a nail in any coffin. An argument can easily be made that when they say "In "Homecoming" he was the embodiment of a myth [that] parents started to keep the children out of trouble." that they are confirming it's a different existence from PH in SH2. The coffin is still quite opened, technically.

However, as I have said before, I do personally believe they wanted Bogeyman to be implied to be the same Pyramid Head. That was likely their intent. However, what the developers intended was never the issue. The issue is with how much their intent clashes with established canon, previous and future developers intentions (there is more than enough evidence supporting that the SH2 developers intended PH to be something specific to James, and Tomm Hulett now agrees that PH from SH2 should be exclusive to James), and the overall accepted nature of Pyramid Head. And if we should decide to consider them two separate entities to reconcile Homecoming with the rest of the series.

This isn't about what the developers of Homecoming wanted. It's about what we, as the fanbase, should take as true in regards to Silent Hill canon and mythology. Even Tomm Hulett agreed that Bogeyman in Homecoming was a bad idea. And if we rationalize that it's a different creature entirely (which, again, requires less new explanation and BS to be true than the alternative) then all these problems are more or less solved. The issue at hand is if we should make a fanon retcon to the canon retcon that Homecoming made.

Edit: Allow me to clarify that I'm talking about the issue I care about and what the conversation eventually evolved into, not necessarily what the thread creator was talking about when the first post was made.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Should the Bogeyman be considered a standalone monster?
     
         
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Missing since: 08 Jun 2011
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Last seen at: Canada
NanayaShiki wrote:
This isn't about what the developers of Homecoming wanted. It's about what we, as the fanbase, should take as true in regards to Silent Hill canon and mythology.

Pyramid Head is no longer exclusive to James. He appears in other Silent Hill media.
The more people try to defend that Pyramid Head is exclusive to James, the more convoluted he becomes and the more people try to clutch at straws.

If Pyramid Head is "exclusive to James", then it's a bitch explaining why he appears to:

- Travis (in a painting)
- Eric
- Tina
- Jessie
- Alex
- Adam
- Jack
- Finn
- Sara
- Katie
- Derek
- Trent
- Naomi

(and in the film universe)
- Rose
- Anna
- Cybil
- Dahlia
- Possibly Heather

I think it's time we accept that Pyramid Head is no longer exclusive to James, and is an entity of the town who appears slightly different to everyone. If you try to argue otherwise, you only wind up creating a list of flimsy and weak reasons.
Besides, I already showed you enough reasons which support the Bogeyman being Pyramid Head including:

- The visual similarities in the Bogeyman drawings and what is seen in SH2
- Mayan Escalante referring to the Bogeyman as Pyramid Head
- The coding in the game's files referring to the Bogeyman as Pyramid Head
- The Homecoming strategy guide referring to him as Pyramid Head
- His figurine on Konamistyle
- Interviews in which the developers refer to him as Pyramid Head

See where I'm going with this? The more you try to deny it, the more knots you create in the long run. The fanbase should just accept what happened and move on with life, instead of trying to deny everything else. It's the mature thing to do, imo.


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