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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Sheperd family sacrifice (I don't understand)

Missing since: 07 Apr 2012
Notes left: 5
There's some things I don't understand about Homecoming's plot, and I'm hoping somebody will clear things up for me. Why does Josh dying doom Sheperd's Glen? Couldn't Adam sacrifice Alex anyway if he was the intended sacrifice? Did Adam simply refuse to sacrifice his last remaining son, or did Josh dying officially screw things up? If any other of the intended sacrifices died due to some other cause, like say, an accident, would that have voided the pact also?


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: Sheperd family sacrifice (I don't understand)
     
         
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Missing since: 23 Dec 2009
Notes left: 207
Last seen at: Silent Hill.
Trollossus wrote:
There's some things I don't understand about Homecoming's plot, and I'm hoping somebody will clear things up for me.

I'll try.

Trollossus wrote:
Why does Josh dying doom Sheperd's Glen?

Josh's death didn't doom Shepherd's Glen, but the events that were consequential of it did.

Trollossus wrote:
Couldn't Adam sacrifice Alex anyway if he was the intended sacrifice?

That is correct, Adam could have sacrificed Alex (the intended sacrifice) even after Josh's death.

Trollossus wrote:
Did Adam simply refuse to sacrifice his last remaining son, or did Josh dying officially screw things up?

A bit of both.

Adam did refuse to sacrifice his remaining son and Josh's death officially screwed things up because now the Shepherd family was without a successor.

Trollossus wrote:
If any other of the intended sacrifices died due to some other cause, like say, an accident, would that have voided the pact also?

Most probably, yes.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Sheperd family sacrifice (I don't understand)
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
If Alex was sacrificed, there would be no successor, and everything would've been screwed anyway. Since Adam and Lilian had misgivings about it anyway, they decided not to sacrifice Alex, which doomed the town.

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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: Sheperd family sacrifice (I don't understand)

Missing since: 20 Jun 2010
Notes left: 1626
Cyrus Hanley wrote:
Trollossus wrote:
Did Adam simply refuse to sacrifice his last remaining son, or did Josh dying officially screw things up?

A bit of both.

Adam did refuse to sacrifice his remaining son and Josh's death officially screwed things up because now the Shepherd family was without a successor.

I'm of the opinion that the person who continues the family line isn't important and that they can be replaced if need be. Josh could have been replaced if Adam had gone through with things, either through IVF with Lillian or with a younger more fertile woman (I also don't think spouses are all that important). I think it was simply the fact that a sacrifice wasn't made that screwed everything up.

Cyrus Hanley wrote:
Trollossus wrote:
If any other of the intended sacrifices died due to some other cause, like say, an accident, would that have voided the pact also?

Most probably, yes.

If that were the case, then surely something would have happened sooner? Accidents happen, and I find it hard to believe that non of the others before Alex and Josh ever had accidents, etc. Especially further back in everyone's family tree before medicine was as good as it is now. The slightest of illnesses could have screwed the whole thing up.


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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Sheperd family sacrifice (I don't understand)
     
         
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Missing since: 05 Aug 2010
Notes left: 565
Last seen at: Nathan Ave.
I must agree with Soulless-Shadow here. In theory, it was Adam's fault, not Alex's. Even Margaret proves it: "Because of your father, our sacrifices were in vain." She doesn't blame Alex for anything. It's not exactly his fault for killing Josh. Yes, Adam blames him right after the happening, but it's rather a spontaneous reaction, after fishing his drowned son in a lake and realizing that everthing got screwed up. Alex may have provoked it indirectly, but his death should be conceived as a pure accident. Adam could have drowned Alex anytime. He simply didn't want to.

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Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: Sheperd family sacrifice (I don't understand)
     
         
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Missing since: 23 Dec 2009
Notes left: 207
Last seen at: Silent Hill.
Soulless-Shadow wrote:
I'm of the opinion that the person who continues the family line isn't important and that they can be replaced if need be. Josh could have been replaced if Adam had gone through with things, either through IVF with Lillian or with a younger more fertile woman (I also don't think spouses are all that important). I think it was simply the fact that a sacrifice wasn't made that screwed everything up.

I didn't say that Josh couldn't be replaced.

Soulless-Shadow wrote:
If that were the case, then surely something would have happened sooner?

Perhaps none of the previous sacrificial children lived long enough to ever have an accident. One of the first children to be sacrificed was only five years old.

Soulless-Shadow wrote:
Accidents happen, and I find it hard to believe that non of the others before Alex and Josh ever had accidents, etc. Especially further back in everyone's family tree before medicine was as good as it is now. The slightest of illnesses could have screwed the whole thing up.

Well, I can't speak of the previous twelve sacrifices but I do know that an accident happened with Alex when he was eight years old. He just didn't die.

Actually, I just had a Fridge Brilliance moment. That's probably why Fitch stayed with Alex all that time. He was trying to keep him alive for the sacrifice.

mikefile wrote:
Adam could have drowned Alex anytime.

It's suggested that the sacrifices take place on September 23rd. Josh's death occurred when the town was celebrating its 150th anniversary on September 20th and 21st, right? This means Adam had only two to three days to decide whether or not to go through with it.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: Sheperd family sacrifice (I don't understand)
     
         
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Missing since: 29 May 2010
Notes left: 172
Last seen at: Texas
What I always found interesting was Alex was so much older than the other sacrifices. He's in his early twenties while the other three are more around Josh's age, give or take a couple of years.

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RESPECT
 Post subject: Re: Sheperd family sacrifice (I don't understand)
     
         
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19399
Last seen at: #lfk
>That's probably why Fitch stayed with Alex all that time. He was trying to keep him alive for the sacrifice.<
You just got that?

I made a thread about this, more or less, when the game came out. I think it's called "Douglas would've broken his leg in this game, too."

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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Sheperd family sacrifice (I don't understand)
     
         
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Missing since: 05 Aug 2010
Notes left: 565
Last seen at: Nathan Ave.
Cyrus Hanley wrote:
Perhaps none of the previous sacrificial children lived long enough to ever have an accident.
That's not much of a case. Age has nothing directly to do with random accidents. It's true that statistically there's a lower probability for a person to die if you take off, let's say, 90% of their lifetime period, if that's what you were implying. Anyway, as much as it regards age probability, there is no difference: someone who is only 5 years old has the same percentage of opportunities to get hit by a lighting as a 70 year old does.

Cyrus Hanley wrote:
This means Adam had only two to three days to decide whether or not to go through with it.
Nevertheless, the point is that he could have killed him afterwards. Instead, he immediately rushed him into a mental hospital.

Harlequin wrote:
What I always found interesting was Alex was so much older than the other sacrifices. He's in his early twenties while the other three are more around Josh's age, give or take a couple of years.

Yes, I always found interesting the fact. It is apparent the distinctive perspective of the Shepherd and Holloway families for instance. As much as I'm aware, there is no suggestion of any Joey's and Scarlet's brothers or sisters. Therefore, the Shepherds and the Holloways were the ones to make the though decision. Margaret's viewpoint was established on a more rational basis: she thought that Nora, still a young girl, would not be of much importance to the family as Elle. In poor words: 'Let's cut the root before it matures'. And it's very important to mention that Margaret viewed with scorn Elle's character and her thinking: "She's just like you, Alex. She thinks there are things as good and evil." Nevertheless, she chose Nora, her younger daughter. Whereas the Shepherd family rather chose their older son. For them, the observation point was rather entrenched on a more emotive basis, as they most likely didn't want to see their youngest fruit of love fade away. They probably thought Joshua was still young and that life was in front of him.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Sheperd family sacrifice (I don't understand)
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
They didn't want to sacrifice Joshua because they already spent all of Alex's life trying to prepare themselves to sacrifice him (and they still can't do it, mind). It seems heavily implied with the large age difference between their children that Adam and Lilian have difficulties having children. They probably thought Alex was going to be their only shot.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: Sheperd family sacrifice (I don't understand)

Missing since: 20 Jun 2010
Notes left: 1626
Cyrus Hanley wrote:
Soulless-Shadow wrote:
I'm of the opinion that the person who continues the family line isn't important and that they can be replaced if need be. Josh could have been replaced if Adam had gone through with things, either through IVF with Lillian or with a younger more fertile woman (I also don't think spouses are all that important). I think it was simply the fact that a sacrifice wasn't made that screwed everything up.

I didn't say that Josh couldn't be replaced.

I didn't say you did. I was merely giving my opinion on the matter.

Cyrus Hanley wrote:
Soulless-Shadow wrote:
If that were the case, then surely something would have happened sooner?

Perhaps none of the previous sacrificial children lived long enough to ever have an accident. One of the first children to be sacrificed was only five years old.

Accidents can still happen though, regardless of age. Accidents and disease. I think the best option for the founding families was probably over-breed and then sacrifice one of the remaining.

Cyrus Hanley wrote:
It's suggested that the sacrifices take place on September 23rd. Josh's death occurred when the town was celebrating its 150th anniversary on September 20th and 21st, right? This means Adam had only two to three days to decide whether or not to go through with it.

From what I remember, he didn't have much time to decide at all. Although, it has been a while since I've played, so my memory could be a little fuzzy.


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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Sheperd family sacrifice (I don't understand)
     
         
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Missing since: 05 Aug 2010
Notes left: 565
Last seen at: Nathan Ave.
AuraTwilight wrote:
They didn't want to sacrifice Joshua because they already spent all of Alex's life trying to prepare themselves to sacrifice him (and they still can't do it, mind). It seems heavily implied with the large age difference between their children that Adam and Lilian have difficulties having children.
The Holloway family also had two children conceived on a large timeline scale. How did you come to the deduction specifically for Adam and Lillian? Just curious.

I also can't remember if there's any date or a suggestion/implication of when the pact was made.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Sheperd family sacrifice (I don't understand)
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
The Holloway family also had two children conceived on a large timeline scale. How did you come to the deduction specifically for Adam and Lillian? Just curious.


Well, unlike the Shepards, Holloway isn't depicted as having angst about not having children. Granted, she doesn't get nearly as much screen time or plot importance, but the fact that Alex and Nora were chosen implies that Holloway wasn't worried about having a second child when Elle was born.

Given how Alex was treated his whole life, however, and how much they lavished and adored Joshua when he was born, the Shepards didn't seem to think that they'd be able to conceive an heir in time, so Joshua was kind of a miracle for them.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Sheperd family sacrifice (I don't understand)

Missing since: 18 Sep 2010
Notes left: 50
i dont understand. so people are having babies to safrifice them later? for what purpose?


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Sheperd family sacrifice (I don't understand)
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Because the people who founded Shepherd's Glenn worship the God of Silent Hill but had religious differences with the main cult (think protestants and catholics). They think they're insulting their deity by forming their own town, though, so they formed a pact where every 50 years, each family sacrifices one child to keep the God from being mad at them.

When the sacrifice went wrong this year, everyone was afraid they'd be damned to Hell, causing the Otherworld shift out of their guilt and fear.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Sheperd family sacrifice (I don't understand)
     
         
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Missing since: 08 Jan 2012
Notes left: 64
Last seen at: California
AuraTwilight wrote:
Because the people who founded Shepherd's Glenn worship the God of Silent Hill but had religious differences with the main cult (think protestants and catholics). They think they're insulting their deity by forming their own town, though, so they formed a pact where every 50 years, each family sacrifices one child to keep the God from being mad at them.

When the sacrifice went wrong this year, everyone was afraid they'd be damned to Hell, causing the Otherworld shift out of their guilt and fear.


Wow, this made me see homecoming in a different ways.
The reason the town is in the fog or being punish wasn't because the failure of the sacrifice but because the people strongly believed they failed.
That mean all the people they'd sacrificed weren't really doing anything at all and the people just believed it did.
That theory just made the game a little more shocking and sad.

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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Sheperd family sacrifice (I don't understand)
     
         
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Missing since: 30 Jul 2011
Notes left: 450
I'm still wondering how these families figured out which "uncle" was going to perform a sacrafice. And also how the Shepherds, Holloways, Fitchs, and Bartletts managed to get women to marry into their families and produce children with the threat of sacrifice. I'm thinking a lot of the marriages had to have been within those 4 families and possibly inbreeding led to it being more difficult for Lilian and Adam to conceive. There's also the possibility of just having a bastard child with some random person and sacrificing him or her (maybe that wouldn't appease the gods though).

I love the whole sacrifice a child every 50 years thing but there are some plot holes.

I always believed the town was struck down by the gods due to failing, but Aura's idea of it being in their mind is interesting. However, Elle, Wheeler, and Alex all see the same demons so it is hard to say that is true since all three are completely different people with different personal experiences


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Sheperd family sacrifice (I don't understand)
     
         
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Missing since: 22 Jun 2006
Notes left: 1924
Last seen at: Katz Street
Glenn wrote:
However, Elle, Wheeler, and Alex all see the same demons so it is hard to say that is true since all three are completely different people with different personal experiences

It's possible to see other people's Otherworlds and manifestations. In Homecoming's case, it's a collective of Adam, Jillian, Holloway, Bartlett, and Finch. There's never any real evidence that everyone is seeing the same thing either,(Finch recognising the Scarlett doll as his daughter. Though he may just have known she'd be a monster somehow due to being superstitious.) so you never know if the same creature is being seen by everyone all the time. It also seems like Alex see's his own fears and everything manifestated in the normal creatures he encounters, so I don't know why it would be different for the others.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Sheperd family sacrifice (I don't understand)
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
I'm still wondering how these families figured out which "uncle" was going to perform a sacrafice. And also how the Shepherds, Holloways, Fitchs, and Bartletts managed to get women to marry into their families and produce children with the threat of sacrifice. I'm thinking a lot of the marriages had to have been within those 4 families and possibly inbreeding led to it being more difficult for Lilian and Adam to conceive. There's also the possibility of just having a bastard child with some random person and sacrificing him or her (maybe that wouldn't appease the gods though).


The heir of the family has to be chosen ahead of time, like how Adam chose Joshua.

As for why people would marry into these families, well...obviously they're part of the same religion. Of course they need to marry to provide children for the good of their town.

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I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Sheperd family sacrifice (I don't understand)
     
         
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Missing since: 30 Jul 2011
Notes left: 450
Yeah I know Josh was chosen to live and he would have to sacrifice one of his children, but what if Adam and Lilian had 3 children say Alex, X, and Josh. Lilian and Adam would sacrifice Alex, but either X or Josh would have to continue the tradition by killing one of their children. Talk about family disputes...


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