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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Well, James didn't abuse Mary, so I don't think that'd really work.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 31 Mar 2008
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AuraTwilight wrote:
Well, James didn't abuse Mary, so I don't think that'd really work.


If you were referring to my theory, which I think you were, I'm not sure what James not abusing Mary has to do with it. True, he doesn't abuse Mary, but what he actually does is far worse. Also, from the English dialogue, it is obvious that she either knows what James did to Mary or is just a fantastic guesser. The only way she would be able to have that information, as discussed other places, is the same way that James is able to piece together her story. So just because James didn't abuse Mary, doesn't mean that Angela's view of men in general cannot depict them as abusive, or even that she doesn't think James was awful to Mary. It's also clear in the English dialogue that she is disgusted and hateful towards him (at least partly) because of the sexual aspects of his nature. Besides, the appearance of the Ideal Father in accordance with the first definition I listed is based in Angela's perception, which may or may not be based in truth.

Anyway, if you weren't talking to me then... completely ignore all that. :lol:


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
I was speaking to "Shoot the Sky", Filius.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 31 Mar 2008
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Ah, I'm sorry then. I didn't see how the comments linked up. Feel free to ignore what I said then, and sorry again. :)


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
No, don't worry about it, it's fine. Never apologize about posting your thoughts, I enjoyed reading it.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 30 Mar 2010
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FBA 6100 wrote:
I do like this explanation very much except for one minor discrepancy, being the fact that Thomas was stabbed in the front of the neck and on the side.

"The probable cause of dea____as
multiple stab wounds to the front
of the neck and the left side of
the torso by a sharp edged
weapon. The estimated____e of
death was somewhere between
11:00 p.____nd 12:30 midnight."

The Abstract Daddy appears to be one person on top of another, the one under lying on their stomach.


You can still have sex if your laying on your stomach...

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Abstract Daddy - fact or fiction?
     
         
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Missing since: 15 Jan 2005
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Last seen at: Couldn't tell you even if I tired
Was that really worth reviving a 2+ year old dead thread to say? Not really. Necrobumping should only be done when you have something to add, something more than a quote and a single sentence.

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I'm like a circle, I'M TOO GOOD FOR CORNERS!!!


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Abstract Daddy - fact or fiction?

Missing since: 08 Dec 2014
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理想的な父親 is a Japanese phrase to describe the English meaning of Abstract Daddy, not the other way around. The creature is called Abstract Daddy (アブストラクトダディ) in Japanese, thus using the phrase “ideal father” to describe Abstract Daddy in English is meaningless.

If you search for 'abstract' in a Japanese to English dictionary, the first word that pops up is 抽象的 which is what the Japanese Wikipedia article on Silent Hill 2 uses to describe Abstract Daddy (抽象的な父親).

Lower on the list of meanings, is 理想的 which is an adjective that would usually be translated as ideally, and in English, we associate that with ‘optimal’ in most contexts, but ideal also has a conceptual meaning. In the case of how Abstract Daddy is described in the Silent Hill Chronicles book, 理想的な父親 refers to the manifestation of how Angela imagines her father.

Abstract Daddy is not how she wishes her father was, but what she envisions when she thinks of him. This creature is supposed to look like the disturbing idea which it’s depicting, not Angela getting revenge on her father.

She doesn't imagine him like a man in his regular dress, or even as the stabbed corpse he became. When she thinks of her father, the stand out image is the torment that he inflicted upon her and thus why Abstract Daddy takes the form it does.

Personally, I think that the monster is one of the darkest things to come out of the Silent Hill series and the name of it invokes a twisted and uncomfortable feeling. It's so blatant, and maybe because it's not sugarcoated and it disturbs players, there is a motion to explain it away as something other than a visual representation of Angela's father sexually abusing her.


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Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject: Re: Abstract Daddy - fact or fiction?
     
         
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Missing since: 12 Oct 2010
Notes left: 1446
Last seen at: Chicago
Now *that* kind of insight is worth reviving a thread for, good job.

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Abstract Daddy - fact or fiction?
     
         
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Missing since: 19 Jun 2012
Notes left: 64
Last seen at: Storybrooke
Forgive me if somebody has said this, I'm just now reading through the thread, but maybe James could see the monster because when he's in the hallway he hears Angela scream and running into the room, finds what looks to be abstract daddy approaching Angela in a way reminiscent of the father approaching her to abuse her. It then turns to attack James, as though startled from being discovered attacking her and is attacking a witness to his crime. James might not have seen it as sexual to begin with, but he certainly walked in on the abstract daddy approaching Angela in a aggressive way and the abstract daddy turned and tried to get rid of James.

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Abstract Daddy - fact or fiction?

Missing since: 05 Mar 2016
Notes left: 4
Burning Man wrote:
[Note to mods: Like any rule abiding citizen, I used the search button to see if any thread dealt specifically with Abstract Daddy. There are a couple of general threads talking about all the monsters or talking about Angela and the monster's association with her, but not one that dealt with this monster specifically. If you believe this should still be part of another thread, please inform me. Thanks.]

---
The general belief is that Abstract Daddy depicts Thomas Orosco molesting his daughter. I shared the same belief until recently, when I've decided to go back to Angela's story using the other official script.

Granted, the general belief does make Angela's story a tad more horrific, but I came to wonder if Abstract Daddy really does represent the sexual abuse (actually, if there were any is another matter of question) that Angela went through during her childhood.

If you read the translated Silent Hill Chronicles at wallofdeath's site, and lookup the description of Abstract Daddy, you'll see that it says the name means "Ideal Father". And you have to ask yourself exactly how is a depiction of Thomas molesting his daughter be "ideal" unless Angela has warped sense of idealism.

Frankly, several people may wonder if there was a translation mistake. I can tell you that at least wallofdeath's translation is correct. Silent Hill Chronicle does use the Japanese term for "ideal" and not "abstract" as in "abstract painting".

I would think that if "abstract daddy" really is supposed to mean "ideal father", then I would speculate that the monster is not a depiction of Thomas molesting Angela, but a depiction of Angela stabbing Thomas to death perhaps. Quite frankly, I believe that to Angela an "ideal father" would be a dead one.

In my opinion, this explanation fits with the overall theme of the monsters in Silent Hill 2. That is, all the monsters are there to remind James of what he did to Mary and not what Mary did to him. Symmetrically, if Angela has a monster, then it should remind her of what she did, and not what Thomas did to her. Aren't all the characters that are called to Silent Hill there because of what they did?

This may be a reason why James is able to see Abstract Daddy as well. If Abstract Daddy, in the general sense, depicts one person taking the life of another, then it could also depict James taking the life of Mary.

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Image
edit by amphreded: I added the picture for future references.


Abstract Daddy/Ideal Father represents how 'James' sees Angela, that's how we can see it. Remember the Tablet of the "Seductress"? To 'James', that's Angela.


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