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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Abstract Daddy - fact or fiction?

Missing since: 15 Jul 2003
Notes left: 2368
[Note to mods: Like any rule abiding citizen, I used the search button to see if any thread dealt specifically with Abstract Daddy. There are a couple of general threads talking about all the monsters or talking about Angela and the monster's association with her, but not one that dealt with this monster specifically. If you believe this should still be part of another thread, please inform me. Thanks.]

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The general belief is that Abstract Daddy depicts Thomas Orosco molesting his daughter. I shared the same belief until recently, when I've decided to go back to Angela's story using the other official script.

Granted, the general belief does make Angela's story a tad more horrific, but I came to wonder if Abstract Daddy really does represent the sexual abuse (actually, if there were any is another matter of question) that Angela went through during her childhood.

If you read the translated Silent Hill Chronicles at wallofdeath's site, and lookup the description of Abstract Daddy, you'll see that it says the name means "Ideal Father". And you have to ask yourself exactly how is a depiction of Thomas molesting his daughter be "ideal" unless Angela has warped sense of idealism.

Frankly, several people may wonder if there was a translation mistake. I can tell you that at least wallofdeath's translation is correct. Silent Hill Chronicle does use the Japanese term for "ideal" and not "abstract" as in "abstract painting".

I would think that if "abstract daddy" really is supposed to mean "ideal father", then I would speculate that the monster is not a depiction of Thomas molesting Angela, but a depiction of Angela stabbing Thomas to death perhaps. Quite frankly, I believe that to Angela an "ideal father" would be a dead one.

In my opinion, this explanation fits with the overall theme of the monsters in Silent Hill 2. That is, all the monsters are there to remind James of what he did to Mary and not what Mary did to him. Symmetrically, if Angela has a monster, then it should remind her of what she did, and not what Thomas did to her. Aren't all the characters that are called to Silent Hill there because of what they did?

This may be a reason why James is able to see Abstract Daddy as well. If Abstract Daddy, in the general sense, depicts one person taking the life of another, then it could also depict James taking the life of Mary.

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edit by amphreded: I added the picture for future references.


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Woodside Apartments Janitor
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Missing since: 29 May 2006
Notes left: 1096
Last seen at: Mormons HQ
Each victim of shatered or family violence usually has its own imagination of a perfect familly which they would like to live in. I believe Angela lived with her father and her mother and brother lived somewhere else. Prehaps Angie also had his 'perfect father' imagination, unfortunately the one she lived with was far from it. Thats why I think the monster rather represents her 'sexual harassment' than 'daddy kissing her lil girl after bedtime story' or, like you've said, 'dead guy' you know. And not all monsters are representing 'what he did to Mary' some of them simply representing James urges. James and Angelas paths are crossing in Silent Hill, thats why he is able to see 'her hell'. One could say that James is able to see it because they are both potential suicide but I think thats false.


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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 13 Nov 2005
Notes left: 429
Last seen at: Teen Town
I do like this explanation very much except for one minor discrepancy, being the fact that Thomas was stabbed in the front of the neck and on the side.

"The probable cause of dea____as
multiple stab wounds to the front
of the neck and the left side of
the torso by a sharp edged
weapon. The estimated____e of
death was somewhere between
11:00 p.____nd 12:30 midnight."

The Abstract Daddy appears to be one person on top of another, the one under lying on their stomach.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2003
Notes left: 12943
Last seen at: The Wand'ring Wood
It's not possible to reach around and stab someone? I didn't see it as the person lying on their stomach, for what it's worth... I don't even see another person beneath the crouched figure.

Thanks for this, Burning Man. Little do things surprise or catch me off guard symbolism-wise in these games, but this post of yours did. If I could offer you cookies and tea as a sufficient kudos, well I would.

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I'm not dead yet, dammit.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 22 Jun 2006
Notes left: 1924
Last seen at: Katz Street
i like this theory way better than the sexual abuse one.its easier to beleive and think about.

_________________
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WARNING: Some Parts of Reality May Seem Violent or Cruel.


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Woodside Apartments Janitor
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Missing since: 12 Jan 2007
Notes left: 1196
Last seen at: Night Springs
I love your theory^^ This has breathed new life into the Abstract Daddy theory which until this topic, I had always seen it dismissed as sexual abuse! : :?

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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 13 Nov 2005
Notes left: 429
Last seen at: Teen Town
Krist. wrote:
It's not possible to reach around and stab someone? I didn't see it as the person lying on their stomach, for what it's worth... I don't even see another person beneath the crouched figure.

Thanks for this, Burning Man. Little do things surprise or catch me off guard symbolism-wise in these games, but this post of yours did. If I could offer you cookies and tea as a sufficient kudos, well I would.


I'm not saying it's not possible, just inconvienient to do. Assuming Angela is right handed and that she was, in fact, on top of a Thomas who was on his stomach, it would have been unnecessary and almost impossible to reach all the way around to his left side to stab him.

I dunno. It always looked to me like one person on top of another, the "another" being on their stomach. The interpretation of the picture determines its significance.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11379
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Yes, because Abstract totally means Ideal.

Lolz Dictionary.

_________________
BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 15 Jul 2003
Notes left: 2368
AuraTwilight wrote:
Yes, because Abstract totally means Ideal.

Lolz Dictionary.

You have a point, of course. I've thought about "abstract daddy" being 'Engrish'. The thing is that Silent Hill Chronicles stated that "abstract daddy" means "ideal father" so that non-English speakers can understand what the name means.


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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 12 Dec 2006
Notes left: 341
Last seen at: Wherever my dreams lead me whilst unconcious
Your theory certainly has given me more to think about. It does makes more sense that Angela wouldn't have been the figure lying on its stomach. It would be really difficult to stab someone that way.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 02 Jan 2007
Notes left: 229
FBA 6100 wrote:
"The probable cause of dea____as
multiple stab wounds to the front
of the neck and the left side of
the torso by a sharp edged
weapon. The estimated____e of
death was somewhere between
11:00 p.____nd 12:30 midnight."

Where have I read this before? Great explanation Burning Man. It's really cleared things up for me about Angela's past.


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Woodside Apartments Janitor
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Missing since: 22 Apr 2006
Notes left: 1134
Last seen at: New Jersey
I love the theory, and it makes perfect sense. Thank you!

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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Missing since: 19 Aug 2005
Notes left: 751
Last seen at: Connecticut
I'm not sure whether or not I agree, but I certainly prefer the idea.

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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 13 Nov 2005
Notes left: 429
Last seen at: Teen Town
>Where have I read this before?

Well, a good guess might lead you to believe it was in Silent Hill 2.

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 09 Jan 2007
Notes left: 46
Last seen at: Eating at Wendy's. Any problem?
Hey man, good work. A big thank you from me to help me understand the game even better.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 04 May 2006
Notes left: 281
Last seen at: Philly, Pa.
Perhaps by using the word "ideal" the developers were trying to be sarcastic?


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 15 Jul 2003
Notes left: 2368
Silent Vamphyri wrote:
Perhaps by using the word "ideal" the developers were trying to be sarcastic?

Highly doubtful. Like I mentioned earlier, the description was written for people who don't speak English. That is, they wanted to explain to those people what "abstract daddy" means. They do this for every monster, so I don't see how this one monster's description would be meant to be sarcastic.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 02 Apr 2006
Notes left: 54
Burning Man wrote:
Silent Vamphyri wrote:
Perhaps by using the word "ideal" the developers were trying to be sarcastic?

Highly doubtful. Like I mentioned earlier, the description was written for people who don't speak English. That is, they wanted to explain to those people what "abstract daddy" means. They do this for every monster, so I don't see how this one monster's description would be meant to be sarcastic.



I do think it's strange though that they would literally mean "Ideal Father". It seems to me as well that it would be sarcasm (they do have it in Japanese, btw...).
I mean, I want to agree with your theory, but if Thomas really was an "Ideal father", I'm sure he wouldn't beat and "force" his daughter to do anything (doesn't sound like he forced her to do her homework).

(From the scene where James rescues Angela from the Abstract Daddy)

Angela: So what do you want then? Oh I see, you're trying to be nice to me,
right? I know what you're up to. It's always the same. You're
only after one thing.

James: No, that's not true at all.

Angela: You don't have to lie. Go ahead and say it. Or you could just
force me. Beat me up like he always did.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 22 Jun 2006
Notes left: 1924
Last seen at: Katz Street
yea,that tells you everything right there.the abstract daddy monster sorta looks like its suffering by its movements on the flat peice its stuck to,maybe to her,thats "ideal" for her father to be suffering.

_________________
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WARNING: Some Parts of Reality May Seem Violent or Cruel.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 02 Jan 2007
Notes left: 229
FBA 6100 wrote:
>Where have I read this before?

Well, a good guess might lead you to believe it was in Silent Hill 2.

I know that. Where in Silent Hill 2 have I read this?


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