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Are Angela, Eddie and Laura real people?
Poll ended at 17 Apr 2008
Yes 94%  94%  [ 31 ]
No 6%  6%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 33
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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 05 Mar 2008
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ulcain wrote:
I see your point Isa, but Abstract Daddy could be considered an extension of what happened to Mary...

Thinking about it, why would James see similar monsters in the hotel with Angela not around, if they were specific to her?


Well, why do we see nurses on the streets after Brookhaven if they're specific to the hospital? Still, you could be right. I've read ideas like that before. I've yet to come to a conclusion on what the two figures represent, but it could go either way... Abstract Daddies don't have to be Angela-specific. In fact I'm sure if they were, James wouldn't be able to see them. But they definitely exist because of Angela.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 19 Feb 2007
Notes left: 228
Last seen at: Motel
Isa wrote:
ulcain wrote:
I see your point Isa, but Abstract Daddy could be considered an extension of what happened to Mary...

Thinking about it, why would James see similar monsters in the hotel with Angela not around, if they were specific to her?


Well, why do we see nurses on the streets after Brookhaven if they're specific to the hospital? Still, you could be right. I've read ideas like that before. I've yet to come to a conclusion on what the two figures represent, but it could go either way... Abstract Daddies don't have to be Angela-specific. In fact I'm sure if they were, James wouldn't be able to see them. But they definitely exist because of Angela.


I'd think that the monsters are not specific to the place, but the people. Angela sees the world on fire everywhere she goes and of course her Abstract Daddy and Eddie has people laughing at him...

Still with all this I still could be dead wrong, but it is an interesting twist on a plot that is already twisty turny.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 05 Mar 2008
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Piaga wrote:
>I'm not sure if Delusions usually see and speak with one another and not their creator... but yeah.


Well, PH and Maria certainly interact with each other. It's also interesting to note that Angela and particularly Eddie seem to understand how Silent Hill works in a way that James doesn't. "Don't get all holy on me, James! This town called you too!" That statement by Eddie shows a level of insight and understanding on his part that he never otherwise displays.

It's also odd how Angela says "You didn't want her around anymore!" with so little information on James. At that point, all he's told her is that he's looking for his wife, who he thought was dead, in Silent Hill. Angela's got some problems upstairs and lots of reasons to distrust men, but you have to wonder why she would come to the conclusion that James murdered Mary knowing only what she does. If Eddie and Angela are manifestations of James's subconscious trying to get him to see the truth, their statements make considerably more sense.

And then there's the fact that Mary's letter to Laura mentions James ("He may not smile much, but he's really very kind") as if Laura knew James, even though he doesn't remember her.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 19 Feb 2007
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SolidAndShade wrote:
And then there's the fact that Mary's letter to Laura mentions James ("He may not smile much, but he's really very kind") as if Laura knew James, even though he doesn't remember her.


That's right! I'd wondered how Laura, who seemed to be very important to Mary somehow wasn't someone that James remembered from visiting the hospital... Mary HAD to have mentioned her.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
It's also interesting to note that Angela and particularly Eddie seem to understand how Silent Hill works in a way that James doesn't. "Don't get all holy on me, James! This town called you too!" That statement by Eddie shows a level of insight and understanding on his part that he never otherwise displays.


Assuming they're right, of course. Eddie could be full of shit, or delusional. That, or the town "revealed" it to him somehow, the same way the town provided a tape to reveal the truth to James.

Quote:
Well, PH and Maria certainly interact with each other.


Yea, but Maria refuses to interact with Eddie or Laura.

Quote:
It's also odd how Angela says "You didn't want her around anymore!" with so little information on James. At that point, all he's told her is that he's looking for his wife, who he thought was dead, in Silent Hill. Angela's got some problems upstairs and lots of reasons to distrust men, but you have to wonder why she would come to the conclusion that James murdered Mary knowing only what she does.


Well, gosh, it could have something to do with all the men in her life being misogynistic sexist assholes that caused her pain. Maybe?

Quote:
And then there's the fact that Mary's letter to Laura mentions James ("He may not smile much, but he's really very kind") as if Laura knew James, even though he doesn't remember her.


Mary isn't allowed to tell Laura about her husband, now?

_________________
BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Rosewater Park Attendant
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Missing since: 12 Jan 2008
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Truth be told, that's unnecessary. Remember, JAMES HAS BLANKED OUT THREE YEARS OF HIS OWN MEMORY! Mary has known Laura for only about one. So it is entirely reasonable that James and Laura were acquainted, and James just forgot her. That would also explain Laura's cryptic remark "Are you blind or somethin'?" She's saying something like: "It's me, Laura, the kid from the hospital, and you should know why I'm here: to find Mary!"


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11387
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
When she said "Are you blind or somethin?" She was replying to James' statement about why she was "in a dangerous place like this."

And he didn't blank out three years of his memory, he just modified it. I don't see why Laura would have to be altered in his mind.

_________________
BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Rosewater Park Attendant
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Missing since: 12 Jan 2008
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Because in his mind, Mary died three years ago. Therefore, James never visited her in the hospital over the course of the past year, and therefore Laura could never have entered his life. If he had recognized Laura, then the rest of reality might have come crashing in on him.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11387
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
But he still remembers Mary suffering in the hospital. It's not like his false memories have her drop dead.

_________________
BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Rosewater Park Attendant
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Missing since: 12 Jan 2008
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Last seen at: Minnesota
Plus he probably didn't remember her very well, anyway. I mean, if you went to go visit your dying wife in the hospital, would you be able to remember everyone you saw there? Personally, I think I would just remember her, and no one else.


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Hope House Careworker
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Missing since: 24 Jun 2007
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AuraTwilight wrote:
Um...mind explaining WHY or anything? If you're going to come out and say what you voted for.


Just thought they weren't real. Simple :roll:


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Rosewater Park Attendant
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Missing since: 12 Jan 2008
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QUOTE: Plus he probably didn't remember her very well, anyway. I mean, if you went to go visit your dying wife in the hospital, would you be able to remember everyone you saw there? Personally, I think I would just remember her, and no one else.
But remember that Mary loved Laura as her own child... if they were that close, James would at least have known what she looked like. Besides, Laura knew James, Mary's letter made that clear.

QUOTE: Just thought they weren't real. Simple.
Fine, it's a free country. And I believe otherwise, equally simple.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11387
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
Just thought they weren't real. Simple


But WHY do you think that? You can't just say something like that and not explain yourself, it doesn't make for productive conversation.

_________________
BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Rosewater Park Attendant
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Missing since: 12 Jan 2008
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Well, in GameOver's defense, the essay at the beginning does provide some interesting reasons to believe that James is alone in the town. And if you believe what the essay says, then you can just say you believe it. On the other hand, I agree: the person who wrote the essay explains why they believe what they believe, so they are far more convincing.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 05 Mar 2008
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AuraTwilight wrote:
Well, gosh, it could have something to do with all the men in her life being misogynistic sexist assholes that caused her pain. Maybe?


Angela went through a lot of hell at the hands of men, but what would lead her to think James killed his wife? All she knows about James's past is what he told her at the apartments. "Liar! I know about you! You didn't want her around anymore!" This statement strongly suggests that she somehow knows the truth about James's past.

However, the point that James would have blocked his memories of Laura is a good one. Her presence and knowledge of Mary puts the lie to James's version of events, so seeing her must put a serious strain on his subconscious.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 24 Jul 2004
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Last seen at: somewhere between heaven and hell
I still think that the Abstract Daddy is one of the best cases for AE&L to be real. I simply don't believe that a manifestation would present the need to kill another manifestation without cause. PH killing Maria served a purpose in James' psyche... what was the purpose of watching Angela crush a grotesque critter with a TV? It would have only served a purpose to Angela, supporting the claim that she is real.

Also, half way through the game, Eddie tries to kill James. If Eddie was a manifestation, I think that there would have to be some sort of "trigger" for this sudden mood shift -- something that would happen to James that would denote a change in Eddie's behavior (seeing as how Angela and Laura are basicly static characters for the majority of the game, Angela on her path of destruction, Laura on her quest for Mary). Eddie is the only character who displays a drastic and unwarented change in behavior and motives, rather than simply "serving a purpose" like PH, Maria or the monsters (and in many ways Angela and Laura).

This has convinced me that at the very least, Eddie is real, and if he is real, the interactions that he and Laura share are real as well. The only character unaccounted for is Angela. In fact besides the whole Table Daddy Theory, there isn't a lot of evidence to support her being real. The news paper clippings could easily be a figment of James' immagination, or some sort of repressed memory. The knife she gives you is never used as a weapon (and Mary's letter wasn't real either, so...), and if I remember correctly, James is the only one to see her. Furthermore, you never actually see her die... she simply fades from view, she never fully explains how she got to town and her story is largely left unfinished... so perhaps she is a figment of the mind. . . .

_________________
Some fear death. Others pray for it.


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Rosewater Park Attendant
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Missing since: 12 Jan 2008
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That's quite a valid point... perhaps Angela is the "anti-Maria", and just as Maria is there to seduce James (bring about the "Maria" ending), Angela's purpose is to destroy him (bring about "In Water"). That would mean that Laura's ultimate purpose would be to save him (bring about "Leave"), whether she realizes this or not. Which would imply that Laura's presence is providential rather than random.

I still tend to believe that all three of them are real, but it's a very interesting line of thinking for all that.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
Angela went through a lot of hell at the hands of men, but what would lead her to think James killed his wife? All she knows about James's past is what he told her at the apartments. "Liar! I know about you! You didn't want her around anymore!" This statement strongly suggests that she somehow knows the truth about James's past.


James = Man (thus abusive asshole) = Looking for Wife (thus vulnerable woman he took sexual advantage of RAWR!) + "Hey, Ima lookin' for family too and I killed'em." = LIEK OH EM GEE HE MUSTA' KILLED HIS WIEF.

Angela's thought processes aren't that hard to figure out.

_________________
BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 05 Mar 2008
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Oddish wrote:
Truth be told, that's unnecessary. Remember, JAMES HAS BLANKED OUT THREE YEARS OF HIS OWN MEMORY! Mary has known Laura for only about one. So it is entirely reasonable that James and Laura were acquainted, and James just forgot her. That would also explain Laura's cryptic remark "Are you blind or somethin'?" She's saying something like: "It's me, Laura, the kid from the hospital, and you should know why I'm here: to find Mary!"


But then why does Laura seem surprised that James knows her name in Brookhaven? It's implying that they've never met before Silent Hill, or at least never got acquainted. It's likely they've crossed paths while James was visiting Mary, but if even Laura doesn't expect him to know her name, then they can't have seen that much of eachother.

RedPyramidThing wrote:
Eddie is the only character who displays a drastic and unwarented change in behavior and motives, rather than simply "serving a purpose" like PH, Maria or the monsters (and in many ways Angela and Laura).


Eddie does serve a purpose. His actions and behavior changes weren't at random. Going by the theory that each character represents a different ending... Eddie's ultimate purpose, besides what's discussed in the first post, is to drive James to succumb to his problems and continue to live in his delusional world, and ultimately bring about the "Maria" ending.


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Rosewater Park Attendant
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Missing since: 12 Jan 2008
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QUOTE: But then why does Laura seem surprised that James knows her name in Brookhaven? It's implying that they've never met before Silent Hill, or at least never got acquainted.
Unfortunately, that's a good point, but I think I have to figure that Laura had thought by then that James had forgotten about her. Yes, it's flimsy, but I just can't accept the idea that she doesn't really exist. I mean, Laura has to know who James is, because (1) she attacks him and later accuses James of not loving Mary and (2) Mary says that she does, and gives a valid reason for her hating him. Besides, in "Leave", when James has rejected the hold the town has on him, Laura still exists.


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