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 Post subject: Re: Reasons why Mary did not stay at Brookhaven **SPOILERS**
     
         
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Missing since: 15 Apr 2004
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The important question left unanswered now is why Laura goes here at all. Now it seems like just a totally random thing which makes no sense and serves no purpose (to her goals, at least).

That's the main reason I liked this theory: it gives a perfectly reasonable explanation for Laura going to Brookhaven and staying long enough for James to explore the whole place and find her. This theory accounts for what is otherwise a pretty glaring plot hole.

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RESPECT
 Post subject: Re: Reasons why Mary did not stay at Brookhaven **SPOILERS**
     
         
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
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It's so obvious, Ryan: Laura was hiding from James. . . . And the most logical place for her to hide is in an abandoned hospital. Drrrrrr.

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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 Post subject: Re: Reasons why Mary did not stay at Brookhaven **SPOILERS**
     
         
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Missing since: 15 Apr 2004
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In the interest of addressing the question, hu hu hu, even if all she was doing was hiding, all she'd have to do is wait until James passes, and then leave, scot-free while James bumbles throughout the place in search for her.

She stays, though, and that is now an entirely inexplicable thing.

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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Reasons why Mary did not stay at Brookhaven **SPOILERS**
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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Moreover, she's staying there to PLAY. She's distracted by teddy bears and is idly playing with them when James finds her. This heavily implies that she expected that Mary would show up on her own if she waited long enough, or that Mary's discovery was so well assured that she felt there was no rush.

If Mary stayed in Brookhaven at any point, Laura has reason to think this. If not, then wouldn't Mary going to Silent Hill lead Laura to believe she got BETTER or something? In which case, why go to the hospital for anything more than a cursory glance?

Laura doesn't even need to have met Laura at Brookhaven, to top it off. Laura just needs to know that she was A) there before, or B) was going there.

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RESPECT
 Post subject: Re: Reasons why Mary did not stay at Brookhaven **SPOILERS**
     
         
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
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>B) was going there.<
"When you get this letter I've left to Rachel, I won't be in this hospital anymore."

I wonder if eight-year-old Laura really understands metaphors like people claim. Maybe she actually believes Mary went to a hospital in the one place she really wanted to go back to.

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: Reasons why Mary did not stay at Brookhaven **SPOILERS**
     
         
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Missing since: 30 Mar 2011
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AuraTwilight wrote:
If Laura was the trigger of the Otherworld shift, why did it wait so long to occur? Even if the Shift was waiting for Laura to leave James' window experience, it still waited for like...what, five to eight minutes?


It wasn't Laura specifically.


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My Bestsellers Clerk
 Post subject: Re: Reasons why Mary did not stay at Brookhaven **SPOILERS**
     
         
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Missing since: 24 Nov 2011
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The Adversary wrote:
>B) was going there.<
"When you get this letter I've left to Rachel, I won't be in this hospital anymore."

I wonder if eight-year-old Laura really understands metaphors like people claim. Maybe she actually believes Mary went to a hospital in the one place she really wanted to go back to.
This idea is definitely reaching if you're trying to insinuate a hidden metaphor in one, plain word like that.


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RESPECT
 Post subject: Re: Reasons why Mary did not stay at Brookhaven **SPOILERS**
     
         
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
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It's not a metaphor at all; it's actually quite literal. And it makes sense because Laura is eight.

For someone who claims to understand the theory quite well, you seem to be overlooking quite a few of its most basic elements.

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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My Bestsellers Clerk
 Post subject: Re: Reasons why Mary did not stay at Brookhaven **SPOILERS**
     
         
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Missing since: 24 Nov 2011
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On the contrary, I've covered most of the main pieces that people bring in defense of the ending in both topics as have a few other people. Point is, as I've said in the other topic, this theory relies too much on filling in the gaps and trying to come up with alternative meanings to things that should have a clear meaning.

Judging by your responses in both topics to various things other people have said against the theory, it's seems more like you prefer claim people don't understand the theory if don't agree with it. Granted, you'll never admit it anyway.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Reasons why Mary did not stay at Brookhaven **SPOILERS**
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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But he's not the only one. You really do seem like you only comprehend chunks of the theory, because you keep making points that have already been addressed in other chunks of the theory.

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My Bestsellers Clerk
 Post subject: Re: Reasons why Mary did not stay at Brookhaven **SPOILERS**
     
         
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Missing since: 24 Nov 2011
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No, I think it seems that way to you two primarily because I've tackled the theory a little bit at a time and only focused on the primary reasons of said theory being supported rather than taking the time to address every single little tidbit detailed in the opening post simply because I don't have the time or patience to do so. Besides, there are a lot of the opening post of this topic already address.

It doesn't exactly take a ton of pondering to figure out why this theory wouldn't work in the game. In fact, it takes much less time to disprove than it does to actually push it as being valid.

You've been bad about missing the big picture in a lot of responses to my posts yourself (and I'm starting to wonder if you're doing so intentionally considering the absurd amount of butthurt you've displayed about the possibility of this theory being wrong) so I'm not the least big surprised you would say something like that. As I said, it's hard to take you seriously in regards to this theory with the posts you've made earlier.

What kind of posts you might ask? I'm not going back and listing every single one but two of the most standout ones I'll paraphrase:

"Why should we trust Ito's memory of a DECADE old game?" (by that logic we shouldn't trust anybody on the forum regarding theories and canon about Silent Hill simply because the game is over a decade old and we don't know how fuzzy their memories are. It's a logical fallacy)
"Brookhaven was just reused in SH3 because the developers were lazy!" (dude, this is beside the friggin' point)


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: Re: Reasons why Mary did not stay at Brookhaven **SPOILERS**
     
         
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We know from Silent Hill 3 that Brookhaven still houses psychotic, murderous patients. We know that there were also such patients prior to Silent Hill 2. In order for Mary's hospice on the ground floor to make any sense, they must have coincidentally stopped treating insane people right around the time of Mary's illness, and started up again sometime after she left... which is kind of a stretch.

Also, Ito said she didn't stay in Brookhaven. So there's that.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Reasons why Mary did not stay at Brookhaven **SPOILERS**
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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Quote:
It doesn't exactly take a ton of pondering to figure out why this theory wouldn't work in the game. In fact, it takes much less time to disprove than it does to actually push it as being valid.


Says you.

Quote:
You've been bad about missing the big picture in a lot of responses to my posts yourself (and I'm starting to wonder if you're doing so intentionally considering the absurd amount of butthurt you've displayed about the possibility of this theory being wrong)


I haven't been butthurt about the theory being wrong. What I have been butthurt about, if anything, is your attitude. You've been boisterous, obnoxious, insistent, arrogant, and treating everyone who disagrees with you as if they're whiny children.

Quote:
"Why should we trust Ito's memory of a DECADE old game?" (by that logic we shouldn't trust anybody on the forum regarding theories and canon about Silent Hill simply because the game is over a decade old and we don't know how fuzzy their memories are. It's a logical fallacy)
"Brookhaven was just reused in SH3 because the developers were lazy!" (dude, this is beside the friggin' point)


Ito has displayed a lack of confidence in his own answers and unlike us he doesn't regularly play Silent Hill games, and Silent Hill 3 contains examples of Real Life Writing The Plot so you can't use it as an example case to show Silent Hill 2's planned intentions; things got abruptly changed in it's case.

Also, I never said they were lazy.

Quote:
We know from Silent Hill 3 that Brookhaven still houses psychotic, murderous patients. We know that there were also such patients prior to Silent Hill 2. In order for Mary's hospice on the ground floor to make any sense, they must have coincidentally stopped treating insane people right around the time of Mary's illness, and started up again sometime after she left... which is kind of a stretch.


Brookhaven theory aside, I'm still not positive any of those patients exist in the same time period as the protagonists. They all seem to be dead, and Stanley and Leonard are quite clearly ghosts.

Quote:
Also, Ito said she didn't stay in Brookhaven. So there's that.


I've already explained why this doesn't settle anything.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Reasons why Mary did not stay at Brookhaven **SPOILERS**

Missing since: 09 Jul 2010
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Last seen at: apt 203 (litteraly)
I've read your theory and there's one aspect you believe in quite a lot, that marry couldn't have possibly written that diary. Well I have a theory to disprove that aspect of your theory, I'll humor you. It is said that the developers have left many elements of foreshadowing throughout the story line such as first the radio James finds that has marry speaking and, though it may or may not be truth her doing exactly the stated, (foreshadowing) and James' body found in the apt containing the clock puzzle, I digress. James at that point doesn't have to good memory and at best he only remembers that marry didn't want to live anymore remember the argument they had. And seeing how James doesn't know of marry actually accepting her death. It's possible that in fact that diary is an illusion to what he would imagine her in? I deem this to be entirely possible because the developer's. Have made it clear that James isn't in his right mind and that silent hill has no problem showing things all to impossible to behold. I'm no expert. This is my first post in quite a while. tell me what you think.

-Mreapr

------------------------------

What I mean by this though is that this is James' elaborate realization of the acts he's committed... and it consist of illusions to prevent him from piecing it together until he's ready to accept Marry's death as she supposedly did. And he did this because he couldn't live with what he did. Is it impossible to theorize that , that diary is infact real but distorted the same way the radio at the start was and even the letter, which becomes unreadable in a key part of the plot..

------------------------------

Also, I thought advasery already explained why Laura's there? Why try to argue why one of the key characters should or shouldn't be there. She moves the plot along, and is there the same reason James is there. Mary. Adviserys theory also supports as to why she could know were she would be, besides knowing that the silent hill developer's put so much thought in all the surroundings and characters refer to "the dust of everyday life" were Takayoshi Sato silent hill 2 character design goes into great detail the significants of building a human character and how... Overkill sorry.

- mreapr. Bord.

Mod edit: This was a triple post, please don't do it again. If you want to add on to your own recent post, use the 'Edit' button. Please make sure you've read the forum rules.

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Last edited by Mreapr on 12 Jul 2012, edited 1 time in total.

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Subway Guard
 Post subject: Re: Reasons why Mary did not stay at Brookhaven **SPOILERS**
     
         
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Missing since: 16 Nov 2005
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its highly suggested she and mary were definetly at brookhaven at one time.


Laura: "Me and Mary talked a lot about Silent Hill. She even showed me all her pictures. She really wanted to come back. That's why I'm here."

I thought that Laura's response to James kind of snuffed that idea.

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My Bestsellers Clerk
 Post subject: Re: Reasons why Mary did not stay at Brookhaven **SPOILERS**
     
         
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Missing since: 24 Nov 2011
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^ It does And nowhere in the game is it suggested she and Mary were at Brookhaven at the same time. Only that Laura and Mary were patients at the hospital Mary attended.

It's a dead theory and nothing will ever change that.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Reasons why Mary did not stay at Brookhaven **SPOILERS**
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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I don't think the Brookhaven theory ever seriously advocated that Laura was at Brookhaven. That's preposterous.

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I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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 Post subject: Re: Reasons why Mary did not stay at Brookhaven **SPOILERS**
     
         
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Missing since: 15 Apr 2004
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I still like the theory, because it does explain something which otherwise seems random and pointless. The idea that Mary did not stay at Brookhaven, even if Ito is correct and that is true, is very dissatisfying.

It is kind of silly that this was ever a debate, because the answer does not in any way affect how the game plays out. It only attempts to resolve what otherwise is just an interesting diversion from James' main plot.

So, even if Ito is right, and I admit I don't have a solid basis for doubt which doesn't make me appear to be emotionally invested, no good explanation was offered to explain why Laura went there at all. So, until someone manages to, I will still adhere to this. I don't dispute Word of God, but his dismissal alone is not enough for me. I demand an alternative which works just as well.

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My Bestsellers Clerk
 Post subject: Re: Reasons why Mary did not stay at Brookhaven **SPOILERS**
     
         
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Missing since: 24 Nov 2011
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Well, the thing is the theory relies on having to reconstruct various aspects of the story to accommodate the theory which shows that it simply can't fit in with the storyline as is. Such as changing the idea that Mary is telling Laura she'll be going to heaven in her letter to Mary giving an obscure hint to a seven year old girl telling her she'll be in Silent Hill.

And there was already an explanation as for why she was there. She was looking for Mary. She's a seven year old girl who quite obviously isn't mature or as aware of the world as an adult would be. So she takes something in Mary's letter the wrong way simply because Mary talked a lot about Silent Hill and she put two and two together. That's why she's there.

That and that to be the character providing James all these hints towards Mary's true fate (i.e. not dying of disease three years ago) such as the letter she gives James in the hotel.

Laura isn't really important to the story beyond that and her relationship with Mary. And it doesn't seem like the developers had the grandiose ideas for everybody like we think they do. I wonder if they even provided an explanation as to how Laura was able to get to Silent Hill herself anyway. Not to mention the way Laura is "looking" for Mary seems very random anyway. You first encounter her in a dark hallway in a rundown motel, outside on top of a wall, then at a bowling alley with Eddie, then runs off to Brookhaven, then the hotel. There doesn't appear to be any sensible, consistent reason for her to be in those places other than to fulfill the obligatory role of making appearances to remind everybody that she's a character in the story (that being she's looking for Mary) and slowly feed us bit by bit her role in said story.

And I don't really see how Brookhaven not being related to Mary outside of a basic thematic level seems random and pointless. After all James goes there to find Laura since she ran off there because he's learned from his encounters with her up at that point that she knows more about him and Mary than she lets on. And James, being stuck in his own deluded world of thinking Mary died of disease, is desperate for answers.

Aside from that and the thematic references to Mary, Maria, and James in Brookhaven I don't really see why Brookhaven needs a more elaborate reason to justify its inclusion in the game. It would be overbearing and trying way too hard to establish a connection between Mary and Silent Hill (and we already have plenty of those through James and Mary's stay in Silent Hill for vacation).


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Reasons why Mary did not stay at Brookhaven **SPOILERS**
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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Quote:
Well, the thing is the theory relies on having to reconstruct various aspects of the story to accommodate the theory which shows that it simply can't fit in with the storyline as is. Such as changing the idea that Mary is telling Laura she'll be going to heaven in her letter to Mary giving an obscure hint to a seven year old girl telling her she'll be in Silent Hill.


Wrong.

Even if we accept Mary going to Brookhaven, this doesn't necessarily change what she meant to say to Laura because she is going to Brookhaven basically to die. She's not going to see Laura ever again. She's effectively dead already to her.

Quote:
And there was already an explanation as for why she was there. She was looking for Mary. She's a seven year old girl who quite obviously isn't mature or as aware of the world as an adult would be. So she takes something in Mary's letter the wrong way simply because Mary talked a lot about Silent Hill and she put two and two together. That's why she's there.


Then why Brookhaven, specifically?

Quote:
Laura isn't really important to the story beyond that and her relationship with Mary. And it doesn't seem like the developers had the grandiose ideas for everybody like we think they do. I wonder if they even provided an explanation as to how Laura was able to get to Silent Hill herself anyway.


She hitchhiked with Eddie, as heavily implied in both the game and the eyecatch at the start menu. I don't have much confidence in your ability to deconstruct the Brookhaven theory if that eluded you.

Quote:
Not to mention the way Laura is "looking" for Mary seems very random anyway. You first encounter her in a dark hallway in a rundown motel, outside on top of a wall, then at a bowling alley with Eddie, then runs off to Brookhaven, then the hotel. There doesn't appear to be any sensible, consistent reason for her to be in those places other than to fulfill the obligatory role of making appearances to remind everybody that she's a character in the story (that being she's looking for Mary) and slowly feed us bit by bit her role in said story.


The wall she's sitting on was her taking a break while reading a letter (and seriously it's right outside Rosewater Park, one of Mary's special places), the bowling alley could be an arranged rendevous point with the guy who took her into town, the hospital we're discussing, and then the very much with-purpose hotel, which she goes to after the hospital with no known deviations.

As for the hotel, it's entirely possible she went through it to get to the park, just like James did. We don't know what her routes of access look like. It's also possible she and Eddie walked there together and parted ways afterwards.

Your next two paragraphs I have no problem with, but I still question Laura's reasoning for going to the hospital if she didn't think there was a good reason for it.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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