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Gravedigger
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Missing since: 20 Apr 2008
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AuraTwilight wrote:
And a letter isn't going to do it, as Mary wasn't MURDERED at the time of the writing.

I just had this great image of Mary writing her last letter with "so, Laura, please go on with your life... OH GOD, I'M GETTING MURDERED. HALP. OMG THERE'S A PILLOW ON MY FACE! WHY AM I STILL WRITING THIS?! JESUS CHRIST NOOOO! P.S, James did it."

I haven't read every post in this thread, so forgive me if I repeat something.

I honestly don't know what they could possibly say to each other again. Would Mary tell Laura what James did? I personally don't think she would've, she would've leave that up to James. I also believe she would've thought it would help James to admit to Laura that he did it. If he didn't say it, he might've been able to lie to himself some more about the murder and keep on running in circles (similarly to the Maria ending... but this is with the Leave ending in mind.)

I don't believe there would be any need for Laura to have met Mary one last time, nor do I believe that she did. James already told Laura what happened (albiet not in the nicest of ways), but at this point, Laura understands what has happened and now she has to learn to live with that.
To be fair, though, lets assume that she did see Mary one last time. What could she say? "Soooo... how's school?" In seriousness, she wrote her a letter. A letter confirming that she was in a peaceful place. Mary assumes that if Laura doesn't get the point completely, somebody will tell her. Laura doesn't understand that Mary has died, despite the letter (let's face it, she's eight. She might even have understood and could be lying to herself to ease the pain), and she goes to Silent Hill (a peaceful place, where Mary once stayed) to search for her. James puts a stop to this search when he tells her Mary has died. Laura's objective has been completed.
There is no reason for her to wander around for such a huge length of time inside of town.* If she was going to see Mary, should wouldn't have had to wander around that long for her (or so I believe), unless this is another episode of 'catch the Cheryl', but with Laura chasing after an illusion of Mary.
Maybe Laura followed what she thought were glimpses of Mary. Perhaps that's why she ends up in the hotel -- so that she can have that confrontation with James and give him the chance to set the record straight, but I can't bring myself to believe that they could've properly had a last chance to talk.
*Obviously, the reason that James must wander town for such a long time is so that he can remember and admit to himself what he has done. He is there to repent for his sins. Laura is there for a completely innocent reason, which is why I believe that if Mary planned to talk to Laura, she would've met with her earlier on in the game. If they had spoken, Laura would've been able to go home without seeing James again.

Consider this: "you didn't love Mary anyway!"
To me, that sounds like the past tense. This suggests that Laura possibly now understands that Mary has died. (It may not, but now we're considering again that Laura knows already)... is she there to aid Silent Hill in pushing James into realisation? I seriously doubt it.

There are many ways you can look at this. Many ways you can twist or turn it. My personal opinion is that Mary and Laura did not meet (although there is a minute chance that perhaps Laura saw Mary's image around town and followed her). I believe that James admits to Laura what he's done and then it's easier for Mary to forgive James at the end.

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I just had this great image of Mary writing her last letter with "so, Laura, please go on with your life... OH GOD, I'M GETTING MURDERED. HALP. OMG THERE'S A PILLOW ON MY FACE! WHY AM I STILL WRITING THIS?! JESUS CHRIST NOOOO! P.S, James did it."


I love you, let's get married.

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I honestly don't know what they could possibly say to each other again. Would Mary tell Laura what James did? I personally don't think she would've, she would've leave that up to James. I also believe she would've thought it would help James to admit to Laura that he did it. If he didn't say it, he might've been able to lie to himself some more about the murder and keep on running in circles (similarly to the Maria ending... but this is with the Leave ending in mind.)


What about consoling her on James' character? I can imagine Mary holding her, and explaining that James didn't hurt her, and loved her very deeply. "It hurt him so much to see me hurting endlessly, and when he learned that I would never recover, he wanted to end my suffering. What he did was wrong, Laura, but he did it out of love."

There's more to Laura's quest than just learning that Mary is dead. She also has to deal with the fact that James killed her. If Mary is in the town, I can't imagine she would let Laura go with such a heavy heart. And since Silent Hill is a place where thoughts can be connected, regardless of time, space, or reason, I don't see how they could NOT meet.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Rosewater Park Attendant
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She simply had to have moved on, and it's not hard to imagine that she chose to because she simply tired of looking solely for one person.

It's hard for me. For Laura, Mary is the one chance of a real home, a family, of being someone's daughter instead of a ward of the state. That's why she ran away and made her way to Silent Hill on her own. Is someone that strongly motivated going to just turn around and walk away because James (whom she detests) said "The Mary that you know isn't here"?


Well, when he admitted it to her, she didn't immediately flee. Instead, she went up to him and pummeled on him a bit, suggesting that she doesn't fear him so much as hate him, or is furious with him. Not exactly a sensible thing to do, but she's just a little kid who doesn't seem to have much of a sense of self preservation.

No. But then, she runs out of the room. And I really can't imagine her approaching him ever again. And I expect that if she saw him again, she would flee, if not in terror then because she couldn't stand the sight of him. Remember that as far as she is concerned, he destroyed her only chance at having a real family.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but a lot of your argument rests on the connection that her having reached the resolution of her troubles necessitates her having met with Mary.

Close. It rests on the idea that she was in the misty town for a reason. If there was no resolution available, what was she even doing there? Why wouldn't she have just wound up in the ordinary populated resort town?


James journey did begin with his search for Mary, but its resolution, IMO, is more hinged on the fact that he has resolved the underlying problem, his guilt and self-deception.

But he sees Mary at the end. She forgives him, and gives him the resolution he needs to go on with his life.


For Laura, then, it'd be her resolving her problems of loneliness and loss.

Yes. But if Mary helped James resolve his issues, does it not make sense that she could help Laura resolve hers? Or does her husband rate a privilege that her daughter does not?


To be fair, though, lets assume that she did see Mary one last time. What could she say?

Here's one writer's take on it: http://www.silenthillforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=16275


In seriousness, she wrote her a letter. A letter confirming that she was in a peaceful place. Mary assumes that if Laura doesn't get the point completely, somebody will tell her.

The letter was written when Mary still assumed that (1) she was going to die of natural causes and (2) one of the nurses would tell Laura that Mary had died before giving her the letter. When neither of those things happened, things were different.


Laura is there for a completely innocent reason, which is why I believe that if Mary planned to talk to Laura, she would've met with her earlier on in the game. If they had spoken, Laura would've been able to go home without seeing James again.

Why did the town take James on such a long, convoluted journey? He could have just driven all the way to the hotel, walked up to Room 312, found the VCR hot and ready to go, and watched the movie and realized the truth. But Silent Hill doesn't work that way, does it?


If Mary is in the town, I can't imagine she would let Laura go with such a heavy heart.

I agree completely. And when we see Laura departing in "Leave", she doesn't seem broken and devastated, the way she was when she left the hotel room. That would suggest, as I said, that she had done what she came to do and was ready to move on.


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Historical Society Historian
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Not to mention that even if one loved one was going to rank privilege over another, if Mary could only visit one, she'd most likely visit Laura, since she's a child, and didn't make her eat a pillow. The fact that she's willing to forgive, love, and help James heal at all is a testament to Mary's allegorically angelic, pure nature, as she represents hope, happiness, and idealism. Such a character should and would do everything in her power to help and ease the pain of everyone they loved.

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I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Oddish wrote:
It's hard for me. For Laura, Mary is the one chance of a real home, a family, of being someone's daughter instead of a ward of the state. That's why she ran away and made her way to Silent Hill on her own. Is someone that strongly motivated going to just turn around and walk away because James (whom she detests) said "The Mary that you know isn't here"?

If she accepts that Mary's dead, why not? What is there left for her to do? You seem to agree that she does know that James killed Mary, so is she going to linger looking for a person she knows is dead?
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No. But then, she runs out of the room. And I really can't imagine her approaching him ever again. And I expect that if she saw him again, she would flee, if not in terror then because she couldn't stand the sight of him. Remember that as far as she is concerned, he destroyed her only chance at having a real family.

I don't imagine she approached him again - I imagine he approached her. James, after all, does care enough about Laura to look for her at varying times in the game, albeit half-heartedly due to his search for Mary. After he resolved the Mary issue, it's not hard to imagine that the not-icy James would still have his established concern for Laura. That Laura was walking such a distance ahead, leading James, makes me think that she rejected going anywhere with him, but he's following her just to make sure she'll be all right.
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Close. It rests on the idea that she was in the misty town for a reason. If there was no resolution available, what was she even doing there? Why wouldn't she have just wound up in the ordinary populated resort town?

Of course she was there for a reason. All the characters of SH2 had an underlying purpose that stranded them in the alternate planes. I just find it hard to believe that Laura, or any character's true draw to Silent Hill is merely that they were seeking someone. Angela's initial draw was her search for mother, but was drawn to Silent Hill by her turmoil over her father. James' was initially Mary, but we learn that his true draw was his guilt over having killed her. Eddie didn't even seek anyone, but he was drawn by his mental mess over killing. It's not the specific person they're looking for that is the reason they're pulled into the alternate planes, or else Eddie shouldn't have been pulled; rather, its the emotional/mental stress each has.
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But he sees Mary at the end. She forgives him, and gives him the resolution he needs to go on with his life.

Of course - it's necessary for him because their relationship ended on one hell of a sour note. However, the letter established a peace for Laura that, IMO, once she accepted that Mary is dead, would be enough to bring about her resolution. After all, what more did she have to hear Mary say? James needed to hear Mary say that everything's all right because she hadn't said that to him, but the letter Mary gave Laura had finality in it.
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Yes. But if Mary helped James resolve his issues, does it not make sense that she could help Laura resolve hers? Or does her husband rate a privilege that her daughter does not?

I don't think she had to, per above. Also, I think it's worth mentioning that we see what Angela, Eddie, and James are tormented by in their search and have to overcome (Abstract Daddy, corpses, and Maria), but that doesn't hold true for Laura. That is, Silent Hill confronts people with what torments them, and in Laura's case, it's loneliness, hence why she doesn't see a doppelganger of Mary (as a note, I don't believe the guilt/murder theory because then, I don't see why she was pulled into the alternate planes, period). James saw Mary because he had to confront his guilt in the form of Mary. By that relation, Laura seeing Mary is not a way to confront her loneliness. That's something she has to do on her own.
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The letter was written when Mary still assumed that (1) she was going to die of natural causes and (2) one of the nurses would tell Laura that Mary had died before giving her the letter. When neither of those things happened, things were different.

Consider that she does get stuck in Silent Hill, and that she finds out Mary's dead through James. Then what purpose does that letter serve? Its original purpose.
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If Mary is in the town, I can't imagine she would let Laura go with such a heavy heart.

I agree completely. And when we see Laura departing in "Leave", she doesn't seem broken and devastated, the way she was when she left the hotel room. That would suggest, as I said, that she had done what she came to do and was ready to move on.


This entire idea is something I don't support - the idea that "Mary" has so much control over who she appears to and what she does. She's a manifestation, like Maria, "Born from a Wish", and though she has sentience, it seems to be sentience meant to serve a purpose - a purpose catered to the particular person manifesting. I don't think she has any control over whether or not Laura left with a heavy heart, because she's nothing more than a manifestation by the town, which we are only shown to have been manifested by James. Laura creates no doppelganger, nor gives any indication that she's seen traces of Mary anywhere, so IMO, her psyche didn't have to confront anything embodied by Mary (it'd be contradictory to have Mary embody loneliness - rather, that loneliness is embodied by the lack of her).

I feel rambly, so I'll stop there, and clarify after your counterarguments. =)


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I don't think she had to, per above. Also, I think it's worth mentioning that we see what Angela, Eddie, and James are tormented by in their search and have to overcome (Abstract Daddy, corpses, and Maria), but that doesn't hold true for Laura. That is, Silent Hill confronts people with what torments them, and in Laura's case, it's loneliness, hence why she doesn't see a doppelganger of Mary (as a note, I don't believe the guilt/murder theory because then, I don't see why she was pulled into the alternate planes, period). James saw Mary because he had to confront his guilt in the form of Mary. By that relation, Laura seeing Mary is not a way to confront her loneliness. That's something she has to do on her own.


Without emotional closure beyond "She's dead" Laura will just become more bitter and thorny, which is what fed her initial loneliness, and then she'll never leave. Resolving this issue is as simple as, "Yo, Laura, gotta go. Don't hate James for killing me, and give him a chance. I loved him, so you try, too. :D Aight, I'm outtie. Peace, homegirl."

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This entire idea is something I don't support - the idea that "Mary" has so much control over who she appears to and what she does. She's a manifestation, like Maria, "Born from a Wish", and though she has sentience, it seems to be sentience meant to serve a purpose - a purpose catered to the particular person manifesting. I don't think she has any control over whether or not Laura left with a heavy heart, because she's nothing more than a manifestation by the town, which we are only shown to have been manifested by James. Laura creates no doppelganger, nor gives any indication that she's seen traces of Mary anywhere, so IMO, her psyche didn't have to confront anything embodied by Mary (it'd be contradictory to have Mary embody loneliness - rather, that loneliness is embodied by the lack of her).


The Mary seen in the Leave and In Water endings is the real spirit of Mary, exemplified by the fact that Lost Memories marks the Maria Ending Mary specifically different as a "manifestation of James." This, and the fact that Maria was compared as Mary's "bodily half" the same way Cheryl is to Alessa, and that Maria possesses memories that James doesn't (such as knowing who Laura is before James ever learns who she is, personally enough to know she liked specific types of teddy bears), is testimony to the heavily implied position that Mary's spiritual presence is real, and not a fabrication like Maria is. Therefore, she can appear to Laura if she damn well pleases, and has no reason to not do so, as it's indeed not in her character.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Rosewater Park Attendant
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If she accepts that Mary's dead, why not? What is there left for her to do?

I don't know, but considering the implication of Mary's death, I don't think Laura's going to give up quite as easily as all that. Just say: "Oh well, James says he killed Mary. Guess it's another ten lonely and miserable years in the orphan's home for me, so might as well get on with it."

And further, if Laura exemplifies the "Leave" ending the way Eddie exemplifies "Maria" (embracing madness) and Angela exemplifies "In Water" (self-destruction), it stands to reason that her quest would reach the same resolution as James's: a last meeting with the person she sought.


I don't imagine she approached him again - I imagine he approached her.

Plausible, yes. James would not want to leave the child Mary loved in an unsafe place. He might have had to chase her down, though.


That Laura was walking such a distance ahead, leading James, makes me think that she rejected going anywhere with him, but he's following her just to make sure she'll be all right.

I agree with that assessment as well. If Laura did not see Mary, I think it is unlikely that she would even consent to leave with James, and impossible that she'd be willing to live under the same roof as him.


Of course she was there for a reason. All the characters of SH2 had an underlying purpose that stranded them in the alternate planes. I just find it hard to believe that Laura, or any character's true draw to Silent Hill is merely that they were seeking someone.

Laura was seeking Mary, but her underlying purpose was that she was seeking love, friendship, family, an end to years of loneliness. In her mind, Mary represented these things.


The letter established a peace for Laura that, IMO, once she accepted that Mary is dead, would be enough to bring about her resolution.

After James's revelation in the hotel room, did Laura look very peaceful to you?!


Silent Hill confronts people with what torments them...

But Laura is not tormented. If the town could weaponize James's guilt and frustration, Angela's self-hatred, and Eddie's rage, it could do the same with Laura's loneliness. By the time James found her, she'd be a whimpering heap on the floor.


By that relation, Laura seeing Mary is not a way to confront her loneliness. That's something she has to do on her own.

Then if she has nothing tangible to confront and no tangible goal, why is she even there?


This entire idea is something I don't support - the idea that "Mary" has so much control over who she appears to and what she does.

I agree with Aura, and you didn't address my last: if Laura received no satisfactory resolution to her quest, why is she leaving town so willingly and resolutely? For that matter, why is she leaving at all?


Without emotional closure beyond "She's dead" Laura will just become more bitter and thorny, which is what fed her initial loneliness, and then she'll never leave.

She might leave, but she may never really recover. She'll go through life consumed by bitterness and hatred at James for what he took from her. I don't think Mary would choose to leave it at that.


Resolving this issue is as simple as, "Yo, Laura, gotta go. Don't hate James for killing me, and give him a chance. I loved him, so you try, too. Aight, I'm outtie. Peace, homegirl."

Mary doesn't seem the type to use jive-talk, and I think that if she'd wanted James to look after Laura, she'd have let James know as well. But the sentiment is spot-on.


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Mary doesn't seem the type to use jive-talk


I was being silly, obviously. C'mon, Oddish, I do this all the time. <3

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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And as I'm sure you know, Aura, I knew that already. I do, in fact, have a sense of humor (Cf. "SH2 - The Rejected Endings"). I was just being obnoxious. :P


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Well, save your obnoxiousness for someone disagreeing with your opinion. Otherwise I'll have to introduce you to Mary's gold-toothed wigger rapper persona, "Terminally Grill."

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Rosewater Park Attendant
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Do that, and I might have to write you into one of my Silent Hill endings, possibly the one involving a gallon of turquoise paint, a glass slipper, a crate of frozen waffles, two sticks of dynamite, and a very large squid. Be warned... thou musn't mess with the mighty Oddish.

================================

Most of the arguments I've seen stating that Laura didn't find Mary do not tell us why she couldn't have found her. They merely give us a scenario that explains why she didn't necessarily have to. Of course, for those who simply would rather have it happen that way, such arguments are enough. If you want the rest of us to join you, you'll have to do better.


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Do that, and I might have to write you into one of my Silent Hill endings, possibly the one involving a gallon of turquoise paint, a glass slipper, a crate of frozen waffles, two sticks of dynamite, and a very large squid. Be warned... thou musn't mess with the mighty Oddish.


Dude, I'd love to be in one of your endings. Bring it on, lol.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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I think, Oddish, that that's the best we can do, because your side's argument does the same thing - present a scenario in which Laura might have seen Mary. I don't think there's conclusive evidence, and to take a page from your book, "if you want us to join you, you'll have to do better".

Doesn't bar either side from presenting our opinions, though. =)

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Without emotional closure beyond "She's dead" Laura will just become more bitter and thorny, which is what fed her initial loneliness, and then she'll never leave. Resolving this issue is as simple as, "Yo, Laura, gotta go. Don't hate James for killing me, and give him a chance. I loved him, so you try, too. Very Happy Aight, I'm outtie. Peace, homegirl."

The letter provides what, IMO, Laura needed. I don't think it's necessarily emotional closure in the sense that she needs to have a last talk with Mary, but that she needs to move on from Mary to life. I also really take issue from the idea that Mary simply explaining things to her would do that by itself, but that's really more of a personal opinion, from what I would feel in Laura's situation.
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The Mary seen in the Leave and In Water endings is the real spirit of Mary, exemplified by the fact that Lost Memories marks the Maria Ending Mary specifically different as a "manifestation of James." This, and the fact that Maria was compared as Mary's "bodily half" the same way Cheryl is to Alessa, and that Maria possesses memories that James doesn't (such as knowing who Laura is before James ever learns who she is, personally enough to know she liked specific types of teddy bears), is testimony to the heavily implied position that Mary's spiritual presence is real, and not a fabrication like Maria is. Therefore, she can appear to Laura if she damn well pleases, and has no reason to not do so, as it's indeed not in her character.

Bit of a tangential thing, but nothing in LM stated that the Mary of Leave and In Water endings was NOT a manifestation of James, far as I remember. In fact, could you link me to where your quotes came from? I'm always kinda behind on the other materials around, haha... And though Maria and Mary can be compared as such, I don't think it follows that Mary has powers in the way Alessa demonstratively did (and IIRC, Alessa had a very burned physical body of her own and was alive, so I'm not seeing a particularly good comparison, but again, I'm not nearly as acquainted with side-media as you are, so...). I don't doubt that she has some spiritual presence that allows Maria to know what she does, but it seems a stretch to me, given how her and Maria's actions and words correspond so well to the state of James' psyche, that she's an independent being, rather than something manifested out of James' need to confront his guilt.
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And further, if Laura exemplifies the "Leave" ending the way Eddie exemplifies "Maria" (embracing madness) and Angela exemplifies "In Water" (self-destruction), it stands to reason that her quest would reach the same resolution as James's: a last meeting with the person she sought.

An equal case might be made that it simply means that she's meant to leave Silent Hill. It's a point of opinion.
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Laura was seeking Mary, but her underlying purpose was that she was seeking love, friendship, family, an end to years of loneliness. In her mind, Mary represented these things.

But that interpretation of her purpose runs contrary to the themes of the game. Each of the others there are there to confront their troubles, not there to seek a happily ever after. The draw of Silent Hill is that mental turmoil, not the search of something better - that healing comes after, I presume. You're right, of course, that Mary represented these things, so why would she appear to Laura, being the exact opposite of the loneliness she needs to confront?
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After James's revelation in the hotel room, did Laura look very peaceful to you?!

Of course not! I'm often a bad judge of emotion, but I'm not THAT blind, haha! No, she has every reason to still have problems at that moment, as she's suddenly plunged into greater loneliness at not having even anyone to seek. But in the same way, James's journey didn't end at the moment he realized he killed Mary, nor even at the moment he realized why he's going through what he is (punishing himself). It takes time to recover, to ponder over what comes after the anagnorisis in the catharsis stage of the story.
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But Laura is not tormented. If the town could weaponize James's guilt and frustration, Angela's self-hatred, and Eddie's rage, it could do the same with Laura's loneliness. By the time James found her, she'd be a whimpering heap on the floor.

Loneliness is an awful mental tormentor - I don't mean "deep dark secret" torment, I mean simply mental turmoil, and loneliness certainly qualifies. Also, I don't think the town weaponized anything (if it, assuming sentience of some kind that I don't support, did weaponize anything, it certainly could have taken down the characters far more easily), but rather confronts the characters with that which torments them. In her case, Laura's torment is in loneliness, hence her blank town of fog. Furthermore, again assuming that the town uses the torment to hurt rather than unbiasedly, what could be more hurtful than stranding her in loneliness, her torment, just as James is confronted by the vision of his guilt again and again?
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Then if she has nothing tangible to confront and no tangible goal, why is she even there?

Is guilt a tangible goal? Yet we accept that this is the true reason James is drawn into the alternate planes. Resolution comes when she accepts that she has to move on, though we are not shown the means of this resolution. I simply disagree that it is through Mary because Mary represents the exact opposite of the loneliness Laura needs to confront, while the lack of her is a very fitting representation of it.
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I agree with Aura, and you didn't address my last: if Laura received no satisfactory resolution to her quest, why is she leaving town so willingly and resolutely? For that matter, why is she leaving at all?

I figured you did, because your views generally go with the idea that Mary has a great deal of control over James' journey (which I disagree with extending to Laura specifically in this case, and more generally disagree that she does at all). And I did give an answer, but I guess it wasn't clear enough. Laura 1) has no reason to stay in an empty town after finding out that Mary is not there, and 2) did move on through some means. To me, it simply doesn't follow that it was Mary, for the reasons I've given.
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She might leave, but she may never really recover. She'll go through life consumed by bitterness and hatred at James for what he took from her. I don't think Mary would choose to leave it at that.

Again, this requires believing that Mary has a great deal of power to exert and a full sentience, which I don't support. However, even supposing that Mary was around, do you really think that Laura would simply be assuaged by Mary saying "Oh, hey, forgive the guy that deprived you of a chance at family and sent you here, 'cause really, he's a good guy"? I think she'd have bitterness regardless (though really, that supports that she may have seen Mary because that'd be an explanation for Laura and James not leaving together). Besides, reading Mary's letter to Laura, the same sentiment is already expressed there, though not the forgiveness part, which IMO, is a lost cause anyway.

But I see where you're coming from - I just happen to disagree, and it may be that we'll have to agree to disagree. Unless, of course, you can do better. ;)


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Bit of a tangential thing, but nothing in LM stated that the Mary of Leave and In Water endings was NOT a manifestation of James, far as I remember. In fact, could you link me to where your quotes came from? I'm always kinda behind on the other materials around, haha...


The discussion on endings in either Lost Memories, or another sourcebook (I don't quite remember), calls Mary in Maria Ending a manifestation, specifically, which (along with her out of character behavior) implies that she's only a manifestation in this ending.

Quote:
And though Maria and Mary can be compared as such, I don't think it follows that Mary has powers in the way Alessa demonstratively did (and IIRC, Alessa had a very burned physical body of her own and was alive, so I'm not seeing a particularly good comparison, but again, I'm not nearly as acquainted with side-media as you are, so...). I don't doubt that she has some spiritual presence that allows Maria to know what she does, but it seems a stretch to me, given how her and Maria's actions and words correspond so well to the state of James' psyche, that she's an independent being, rather than something manifested out of James' need to confront his guilt.


Both Maria and Cheryl are called "bodily halfs", and while Mary doesn't have psychic powers, the implication is that Maria shares a similar nature to Cheryl and is probably derived from Mary's soul in some respect. Again, Maria has access to memories James DOESN'T, so he can't of just popped out of his psyche; not entirely anyway. If there is a spiritual presence of Mary independent of James, which is able to assist in Maria's existence and can apparently appear to James and converse with him, what's the difference from just saying it's her ghost? It's pure semantics.

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I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Unless, of course, you can do better. ;)

You know as well as I do that I can't do that, because I can't conjure up evidence. I can only use what's been provided, and it's very minimal. All we know is that James and Laura leave Silent Hill at the same time, in the same direction, but seperated by some distance. We examine the evidence, make our own conclusions.

You say that Laura didn't see Mary, but she accepts James's story that she's not there at face value. She leaves town alone, wanting nothing more to do with James. He leaves as well, possibly keeping an eye on her to make sure she's OK. A totally plausible theory.

I am of the mind that Laura did see Mary, and Mary told her the whole story of why James did what he did, then told her the same thing she told him: go on with your life. James and Laura leave town together, go their seperate ways from there. Again, entirely plausible.

To use a third perspective, Aura postulates that Laura saw Mary, and Mary told her what she needed to hear, and maybe a bit more. Laura and James left town, and started a new life together, as father and daughter. And yes, that could happen as well.

Are any of these theories implausible? No. Are any of them certain? No. Is there any way to prove who's right? No, because in the end James, Mary, Maria, Angela, Laura, Eddie, and Pyramid Head are a bunch of 1's and 0's on a CD-sized disk. It's like the endings themselves: until Konami tells us what really happened, there's no answer. Like it or not, we have to decide for ourselves.


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Brookhaven Receptionist
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I know, that's what I meant. Sorry if it came across as taunting or such; I only meant it as a joking sort of tease (hence the smiley) - I said about the same about what we can conclude in my post.

Like I said, I see where you and Aura are coming from, and I accept them as plausible ideas. I happen to disagree, but it's a matter of personal preference on my part, not because I have any outstanding evidence to prove I'm right, or even that my theory is more likely than yours. I was merely posting my opinion, and I had hoped I'd made it clear it was nothing more than opinion to me.

As it is, I think we're pretty clear on where we stand, and without any clear evidence, there's not much more to say.

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It's a safe bet that we're all going to stick to our respective opinions no matter what the others say. And we're all going to think we're right, right up until Konami reveals that it's all irrelevant because the Dog ending is the canonical one.


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Just Passing Through
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Oddish wrote:
And further, if Laura exemplifies the "Leave" ending the way Eddie exemplifies "Maria" (embracing madness) and Angela exemplifies "In Water" (self-destruction), it stands to reason that her quest would reach the same resolution as James's: a last meeting with the person she sought.


Ok I say either possiblity is able to be true (I mean maybe the time James went to his final meeting Laura had time to think about things well mourning or she met with Mary, who knows?) but I always thought it was
Eddie=Maria edning= embraceing maddness
Angela=In the Water ending= selfdestruction and selfpunishment
Laura=Leave ending= Acceptence and Forgiveness

Now this being said it is possible that Laura meeting Mary again would go against her endings point. Forgiveness is not something that you can be told to give someone, that'd not true forgiveness. Even if the spirit of Mary came and said forgive James would it really work. I mean she told her James was a nice guy and that never seemed to get through (at least untill later when she tried giveing him a chance)
Also Mary appearing would go against Acceptence as well since Laura at first doesn't want to accept Mary is dead and James killed her, but then she does and she...walks away. She doesn't run or cry, she sulks...it's even possible she knew Mary was dead, but not how. Remember what she says

[spoiler]"Laura: Your lying (paraphasing)

James: No that's not true.

Laura:She died cause was sick"[/spoiler]

Also for those who say she wouldn't listen to James she asks him

[spoiler]"She was always waiting for you. Why? Why?"[/spoiler]

and then she waits for an answer.

[spoiler]James:I'm sorry. The Mary you know isn't here.
*Laura walks away and shuts the door behind her*
Laura I'm sorry.
[/spoiler]

Everyone acts like all she did was punch him a few times ,run crying, and slam the door behind her. She infact walks out dissapointed, but not angry. She actully took it rather well. She knows if there is a Mary in this place, she's not for her.

I honestly think she KNEW Mary was dead, but couldn't accept it. Furthering her connection with James. I mean James never gave her an answer, maybe when she saw him again this time her offered on since he had forgiven himself and truely accepted what happened.


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Quote:
And further, if Laura exemplifies the "Leave" ending the way Eddie exemplifies "Maria" (embracing madness) and Angela exemplifies "In Water" (self-destruction), it stands to reason that her quest would reach the same resolution as James's: a last meeting with the person she sought.


Sounds like someone's been doing their homework!

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Excellent points, OverlordMikey.

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Under the burning sun I take a look around / Imagine if this all came down.


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