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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 26 Jun 2009
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Ok I was gonna make this a seprate post, btu then I noticed that it fell under this posts topic more then anything else....mind you people may believe whatever they want. So no ranting about how wrong and stupid I am and how "only my belief is corrent" ok. Although I'm sure we all know better then that anyway ^.^
I'm sorry if it's alittle confusing
----

I had not even considered the concept of Laura meeting Mary because it seemed wrong (untill I read this post). Not on the level that it was wrong for Mary not to see Laura, but in the sense that it went against what The Leave Ending repesents and what Laura needed.

Acceptence. (Forgiveness as well, but that is mostly from James' side. Laura did not NEED to forgive James....read on)

Plain and simple, James truely accepts what he did and goes on living with it, he must learn to forgive himself as he knows somewhere in her heart Mary knows why he did what he did and that he has punished himself for it.

Well what does this have to do with Laura? Why couldn't she meet Mary? The honest truth, she could! Who knows? However people seem to misjudge Laura's character, to them she's either that annoying brat or an innocent girl who hates James for what he did! They only seem to remember her beating on James for saying "I murdered Mary." Which James never said.

This post is to examine the logic behind Laura and the Leave Ending. Why did it happen? Did James take in Laura because of Mary? Did Laura forgive James because of Mary?

The exact conversation they shared when the truth came out

[spoiler]
Laura: So there you are James, did you get the letter? Did you find Mary? If not let's get going already, ok.

James: Laura, Mary's gone. She's dead.

Laura: Liar, that's a lie!

James: No that's not true.

Laura: Sh...she died cause she was sick?

James: No *sigh* I killed her.

*short pause*

Laura(angry and upset): You killer! Why'd you do it!? I hate you! I want her back! Give her back to me! I knew it you didn't care about her! I hate you *starts hitting him* James! I hate you! I hate you! *stops hitting him* I hate you!

*Now just sad, this part makes me cry* She was always waiting for you. Why? Why?

James: *Shakes his head* I'm.....sorry.
*stands up*
The Mary you know, Isn't here.

*Laura looks down and walks off, softly shutting the door behind her.*

James: Laura, I'm sorry. *Falls to the chair*
[/spoiler]

Now here is my logic behind the Leave Ending.

James was uncertain of if he murdered Mary or Killed Mary, he could not answer Laura's Why?. Laura does not leave the room hateful, but sad. She can't understand why the man Mary defended so much would kill Mary. She doesn't understand the reason only that it happened.

Here is the thing Laura and James are in identical boats. They would both do anything to see Mary again. The diffrence is why! Laura wants to see her because she wants the family she doesn't have. James wants to see her so he can know his feelings, accept what he has done, right now he understands nothing except what he did. He doesn't believe he can forgive himself.

It is my belief that Laura was aware Mary was dead. Even an eight year old knows death.

She says Mary was ill. She didn't want to accept that Mary died, she wanted to believe that Mary was in silent Hill and that all her hopes for a family would be there. That may infact be the reason she is in the Otherworld he belief that she will find what she seeks. Of course silent Hill doesn't work that way, just cause she is looking for Mary doesn't mean that is what she gets. Like I said, she's most likly in denial, but she KNOWS she's dead just like James. When James says that the Mary she is looking for isn't there she knows it's the truth, she accepts this truth and leaves. The reason is because this is the truth she was looking for, Mary is dead and she is truely alone.
She may see that James is suffering so she doesn't say anything else, she just leaves.

James is still uncertain of the truth. He tracks down the source of all of this and in doing so knows the truth, he murdered his wife. Not just killed, murdered. He did it for reasons that may be explainable in the court of law, but he can't forgive himself. He can't accept this. Only the spirit of Mary can help him understand that Silent Hill using his guilt to make him suffer has it shown that he isn't a cold blooded monster who deserves no redemtion but a sad man who suffered mental blow after mental blow untill he snapped and did something he sees as unforgivable. He needs to accept the past and move one. If he clings to what he has done then that can never happen.

Finally this is the speculation. In the Leave ending Laura may have waited for James outside the Hotel. He shows up and they talk. James, now with a clear head explains what happened. Laura may still be alittle uncertain, but she knows one thing James did love Mary. She decides to give him a chance and they leave the town together.

The reason mary talking to Laura is unlikly (not impossible) is that Laura is there to accept that Mary is gone, dead. Meeting Mary again goes against this, regardless of what Mary says. Also Mary saying "forgive James" doesn't cut it, that it turning Mary into a Dues Ex Machina and a crutch. Forgiveness doesn't work that way. If your angry and you mother says "forgive him" do you say "ok!". Mayeb some people, btu most people would answer no. Also if she saw Mary again that would make James a liar because she saw her Mary in Silent Hill.

James is there to accept what he has done.

Laura isn't there to forgive James, if she was then maybe Mary would have appear, but she isn't.
James is not there to adopt Laura, that is a choice he may make as he moves on to the future. He may not have done it for Mary at all, but for the sake of Laura. A little girl he knows is as lost as he was.
James is there to accept what he did, he need Mary for that. This is why in the Maria ending a fake Mary appears and he doesn't accept what happened. He need the real Mary to clear his head. If Mary forgives him then The Leave ending happens, because he believes someday he will forgive himself as well. (In the Water is of course the otherway around.)

These two lost people together leave to find themselves and a future.....
-------

This theory does suggest that Laura is in the otherside for a reason. I can not say if she could leave town or not. I doubt the town would have forced her to stay since Guilt is more of a trap then denial, but her denial was strong enough to drag her to the otherworld although no monsters are born from her denial.


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Quote:
The reason mary talking to Laura is unlikly (not impossible) is that Laura is there to accept that Mary is gone, dead. Meeting Mary again goes against this, regardless of what Mary says. Also Mary saying "forgive James" doesn't cut it, that it turning Mary into a Dues Ex Machina and a crutch. Forgiveness doesn't work that way. If your angry and you mother says "forgive him" do you say "ok!". Mayeb some people, btu most people would answer no. Also if she saw Mary again that would make James a liar because she saw her Mary in Silent Hill.


You present an interesting twist on why Laura is in Silent Hill. I hadn't considered that. I also didn't believe that Mary simply asking Laura to forgive James would make her do so either. I like where you went with this post.

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I disagree:

Assuming Laura and Mary had a final moment (and I believe that is exactly what happens), the only reason Laura feels any antagonism towards James is because of her perception of how James treated her.

If Mary simply said "Forgive him", well of course that wouldn't work, but that's a simplistic and incomplete method of reasoning. If, more plausibly, Mary explained James' actions and reasons to Laura, noting that she herself forgave him, it's an entirely different story. Laura forgives James not because she was told to, but because she now understands what happened and why.

Furthermore, all evidence points to Laura being truly unaware that Mary is dead:

--Mary tells Laura much about her love of Silent Hill, including photos and such.
--Mary disappears suddenly. The going theory is that she leaves St. Jerome's for Brookhaven (which I accept as inherently likely), but even if you don't, her letter states that she's given a final opportunity to visit home. Either way you look at it, she leaves whichever hospital still alive. Laura would therefore have no reason to know or assume that she's dead.
--Mary leaves behind a letter to be given to Laura after Mary dies. Laura, however, finds it while snooping in Rachel's locker (along with her letter to James). Since Mary left the hospital alive, Laura now reads the letter out of context. "I'm far away now. In a quiet, beautiful place," is obviously supposed to imply that Mary died and went to Heaven, but since Mary's not dead, Laura assumes that the "quiet, beautiful place" is not Heaven but Mary's favorite place in the world, Silent Hill.
--Mary does in fact die, but considering the circumstances involved, there's no way Laura could possibly know about it.
--Therefore, Laura goes to Silent Hill, hitching a ride with Eddie at some point, and searches the town for a friend she sincerely believes is still alive.

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Just Passing Through
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alone in the town wrote:

--Mary tells Laura much about her love of Silent Hill, including photos and such.
--Mary disappears suddenly. The going theory is that she leaves St. Jerome's for Brookhaven (which I accept as inherently likely), but even if you don't, her letter states that she's given a final opportunity to visit home. Either way you look at it, she leaves whichever hospital still alive. Laura would therefore have no reason to know or assume that she's dead.
--Mary leaves behind a letter to be given to Laura after Mary dies. Laura, however, finds it while snooping in Rachel's locker (along with her letter to James). Since Mary left the hospital alive, Laura now reads the letter out of context. "I'm far away now. In a quiet, beautiful place," is obviously supposed to imply that Mary died and went to Heaven, but since Mary's not dead, Laura assumes that the "quiet, beautiful place" is not Heaven but Mary's favorite place in the world, Silent Hill.
--Mary does in fact die, but considering the circumstances involved, there's no way Laura could possibly know about it.
--Therefore, Laura goes to Silent Hill, hitching a ride with Eddie at some point, and searches the town for a friend she sincerely believes is still alive.


I can use the same things in my arguement.

--Which is why Laura can travel Silent Hill with such ease. Her version is only the photos and stories she got from Mary.
--Brookhaven?? Why that makes no sense? Brookhaven is a hospital, but it's main purpase seems to be for mental patients. Mary was visiting James when she died! To quote the letter "I'm so glad to be coming home, I've missed you terribly" She missed James so she went to Brookhaven...given James' mental state...maybe... Also "I'm near death, let me move to a whole nother town is kinda a stupid Idea even if she did wanna see silent hill again.
--Laura uses letter to foster her "Mary is still alive" delusion by taking the comment out of context. When James said she's dead it didn't take much convincing and she guessed the most likly reason. Mary was sick. (Your making Laura and children in general to be much more simple then they really are)
--She assumes that since Mary never came back Mary is dead. She deludes herself into believing otherwise.
--She therefore hitches a ride with Eddie to search for the mother figure/family she desires but knows is never going to happen. She doesn't want to believe she is alone.


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You can use whatever you like, but your entire argument is founded on a baseless assumption. Mine is based upon information found in the game and official supplementary material, augmented with straightforward logical deduction.

MMY posted a fantastic theory regarding how and why Mary did stay at Brookhaven Hospital, for a brief time. Unfortunately, he linked it to a remote file that no longer exists. Once he gets around to re-posting it, you'll find it at this link. Whether or not she did stay at Brookhaven is entirely irrelevant to this topic, though.

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Just Passing Through
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alone in the town wrote:
You can use whatever you like, but your entire argument is founded on a baseless assumption. Mine is based upon information found in the game and official supplementary material, augmented with straightforward logical deduction.

MMY posted a fantastic theory regarding how and why Mary did stay at Brookhaven Hospital, for a brief time. Unfortunately, he linked it to a remote file that no longer exists. Once he gets around to re-posting it, you'll find it at this link. Whether or not she did stay at Brookhaven is entirely irrelevant to this topic, though.


Um ok except that my arguement is based on ingame material to, you know if you actully read through what I said. (And the fact that I said it was possible she met Mary, I just think it goes against the Leave ending, maybe in the other endings she did, btu in Leave I doubt it)
two show me the offical supplementary material. I know the Eddie thing, teh letter thing, but where does it say that Laura is not just deluding herself with dreams of being with Mary again and that she met Mary, because if you have that then you should have shown it before

Edit: And her staying at Brookhaven makes no sense form a logical point of view, since the last thing she did was visit James!


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where does it say that Laura is not just deluding herself with dreams of being with Mary again and that she met Mary, because if you have that then you should have shown it before


Horseshit. It's your theory, and the burden of proof is on you. Your theory is based upon Laura having a 'delusion' about Mary being alive. You haven't presented a shred of evidence that conclusively supports it. I can't disprove baseless speculation, but don't fool yourself into thinking that means you're right.

Regarding Brookhaven, MMY can explain his own theory better than I can, and he probably will do so.

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Just Passing Through
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alone in the town wrote:
Quote:
where does it say that Laura is not just deluding herself with dreams of being with Mary again and that she met Mary, because if you have that then you should have shown it before


Horseshit. It's your theory, and the burden of proof is on you. Your theory is based upon Laura having a 'delusion' about Mary being alive. You haven't presented a shred of evidence that conclusively supports it. I can't disprove baseless speculation, but don't fool yourself into thinking that means you're right.


How rude. I asked for your evidence. I showed my evidence in my original post which I am beggining to wonder if you even read! Since you refuse to show your evidence I will therefore assume it does not exist. However that does not mean your thory is incorrect . It mean you fail at patiences and the ablity to express yourself in a proper manner

Quote:
mind you people may believe whatever they want. So no ranting about how wrong and stupid I am and how "only my belief is corrent"


I even said this from the very beginning. Your one of those people who can't accept anything that you don't belive. It's your way or the high way. I provided my belief and my reasosn why I think this. I said your belief was plausible. I find the liklyhood of her going to Brookhaven odd, btu wither way you said theat didn't matter.

I hate to be rude back, but your being an ass. Your saying it's wrong for me to argue with you. I showed you my belief and proof, I asked for yours. Your response

Quote:
Horseshit


My response

idea formed by speculation: an idea of or belief about something arrived at through speculation or conjecture

aka a theory! Ta da!


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You can both take chill pills or I can administer a chill suppository. Your choice.

I saved the Brookhaven .doc file to my hard drive:

[spoiler]Initially I’d believed this all to be false: that it was impossible for Mary Sheperd-Sunderland to have stayed at Brookhaven Hospital for any length. However, upon investigating the game further, years ago, I came to the realization that there was much more purpose to Brookhaven than just another creepy locale.

I, too, assumed Brookhaven was only a hospital for the mentally unstable. Its appearance suggests this—from the padded cells to the secured hallways, to the memorable patients—but something suggests otherwise: the first floor. There’s nothing particularly unsettling about the C-hallway: they’re all normal-sized rooms, with normal beds and normal doors, leading me to believe that the first floor does not cater to the extremely disturbed patients, but more so for general treatment—which the hospital was originally built for (the photo in the Historical Society: “... built in response to a great plague that followed a wave of immigration to this area.”)

Brookhaven Hospital’s security systems are only employed on the second and third floors. To gain access to either main hallway, one must enter a four-digit numbered code, each of which are changed regularly to ensure safety. The three extreme patients encountered in the game—Joseph Barkin, Jack Davis, Joshua Lewis—are only mentioned on the second and third floors: no trace of them or their behavior—their writing, scribbling, or messages—can be found in the C-hallway, suggesting that these three cases, each noted as being violent, are to be kept away from others. Even in Silent Hill 3, patients Leonard Wolfe and Stanley Coleman—both of whom are described as being “violent” (“... becomes very violent when overexcited” and “This has caused violent incidents; use caution”—are roomed in the S-hallway—the third floor. The first floor, however, is entirely different: There’s a garden open to its residents, and even a pool. The rooms are larger in size, and there’s no security code required to enter the C-hallway: It’s a much safer area than the top two floors.

Why, then, would Mary, terminally ill, be sent to a hospital used predominantly for mental health?, rather than somewhere like Alchemella, an all-round general hospital?

Because Mary was mentally ill: She suffered severe depression and wished to die—a very common reason for treatment at such a hospital.

Let’s look at things Mary says, in person & her letters:

- I’m pathetic, weak. Not everyone can be strong.
- I don’t want to cause any more trouble for anyone, but I’m a bother either way. Can it really be such a sin to run instead of fight? ... It may be selfish, but it’s what I want.
- I’m no use to anyone.
- I’ll be dead soon anyway.
- It’d be easier if they’d just kill me.

From the NMHA (the National Mental Health Association), characteristics & signs of a person contemplating suicide are as follows:

- Verbal suicide threats such as, “You’d be better off without me.” or “Maybe I won’t be around.”
- Expressions of hopelessness and helplessness.
- Previous suicide attempts.
- Daring or risk-taking behavior.
- Personality changes.
- Depression.
- Giving away prized possessions.
- Lack of interest in future plans.

In those five statements alone, she makes verbal threats, expresses hopelessness, an extreme change in personality, indicates depression, and has no interest in her future—or even the remote chance of recovering. And that’s even with Laura acting as a salubrious friend that has been suggested to have helped Mary with her illness.

Mary wasn’t always hospitalized at Brookhaven. In actuality, she was there very briefly—one week at the most. For the majority of the time she was ill, she was at another hospital entirely: St. Jerome’s of Ashfield.

Given that James’ father, Frank, owned & operated the South Ashfield Heights Apartments, only a few blocks from St. Jerome’s, it’s safe to assume that the couple lived here in town, near his father & father-in-law. Also of importance is that Mary’s nurse, Rachael/Rachel (hereon referred to simply as Rachel), was employed at St. Jerome’s and lived in the apartments Frank Sunderland owned.

During James & Mary’s trip to Silent Hill, when the videotape at Lakeview Hotel was shot, Mary’s inchoate disease began to develop. After it had progressed further along, it’s evident Mary was hospitalized at St. Jerome’s for treatment. After being diagnosed, her doctor explained to James that the illness was terminal: When asked, How long does she have?, the doctor responds, “Three years at most... Perhaps six months... It’s impossible to say with certainty.”

It’s here that Mary spent an indeterminate amount of time, hospitalized, away from her husband & and cut off from her own life. Two years pass—one year before the events of Silent Hill 2—since her illness is first apparent, and Mary meets and befriends a seven-year-old orphan: Laura. (“I met Mary at the hospital. It was last year.”)

As the illness exacerbated, her mental health declined as well: she slid further into lethargy & depression and began to believe death to be more propitious to herself and James (“The thing I'm weak to is reality. It's not like just anyone can live strongly.” “It may be selfish but I'd be happy with that.”).

The doctors know that Mary wanted nothing more than to see Silent Hill again, despite James’ absence. The memory of James bringing Mary flowers is, so I believe, one of—if not the—final time James visits Mary at St. Jerome’s—it may even be because of this conversation that the following occurred, but I do believe that this is one of the last times James sees his wife alive.

It became apparent that both Mary’s physical and mental condition was worsening: her illness wasn’t getting any better, and she “struck out at everyone.” The doctors felt that the best thing for her was to grant her wish, and, more importantly, attempt to alleviate her depression—at the very least allow her a modicum of happiness before she passes away. They decide to do both: They transfer her to Brookhaven Hospital. Before she leaves though, she writes a letter to Laura:

When you get this letter I've left to Rachel, I won't be in this hospital anymore. I've gone to a very far and quiet place so I'm sorry that I left without saying anything. I can't come back now but Laura, be happy (take care of yourself). Don't trouble the sisters so much.

Also, you may have hated James and did not go to meet him, he may be brusque (blunt), doesn't smile a lot and a bit short-tempered of a person but really, he's very kind so if anything happens, please help James.

Laura, I loved you like a daughter. If my sickness was curable I felt I would make you into my real daughter.

To Laura's 8th birthday.
Mary.

There are four important parts in this letter: “...I won't be in this hospital anymore,” “I’ve gone to a very far and quiet place...”, “I’m sorry that I left without saying anything,” and, of course, “Happy 8th birthday.”

The line last, preceding what we learn from Laura—that she “turned eight last week”—proves that Mary did not, in fact, die three years ago, but was still alive as recent as seven days ago. In conjunction with the first part of the letter—“I’m far away now”—Mary wasn’t telling Laura that she was dead, rather she was going to that “very far and quiet (beautiful) place” she talked about all the time: Silent Hill. This wasn’t a messaged used to confuse a child in reference to Heaven or an Afterlife, it’s just a message, I’m sorry I didn’t say goodbye, but I’m okay now, where I wanted to be. This is why Laura comes looking for Mary in Silent Hill: she, too, believes she’s alive—and knows that this is where Mary wanted to be more than anything.

Laura: You’re here to find Mary, aren’t you, James? Well… have you?
James: No… Is that why you’re here too?
Laura: She’s here, isn’t she? If you know where she is, tell me! I’m tired of walking.
James: I wish I knew…
Laura: But she said it in her letter…

When Mary was transferred to Brookhaven, she’s, unfortunately, without the familiar faces of St. Jerome’s. So I believe she brought along some things to keep her occupied: teddy bears, the one’s that Laura would always play with, the one’s that Laura loved—and may well have given to Mary; and a diary. It is here that, without the presence of either James or Laura, she begins writing in it, as a way to pass her time—what little of it she has left—, and to document her emotions and her final days.

In this diary, leading up to the days before her death, Mary hasn’t come to grips with her impending death. She apologizes for it, goes so far as to blame herself, but still states she’d rather die now than wait. Yet she’s unable to kill herself.

The days pass. The weather doesn’t change. She finally comes to grips with her illness: she knows she’s going to die; it’s inevitable. Mary blames herself for what has happened to her, and for all that she’s done to James. Mary’s told by the doctors that she has to leave: her health is deteriorating fast and she ought to be home with her husband. She writes her final letter to James, telling him that, despite her illness, her disease, her moods, she is “at my last moment,” that she “want(s) to write and put an end to this.” During her last day at Brookhaven, as she’s writing this letter, the sun begins to shine, and she is told she’s “been released - that [she’s] got to go home.” She writes her final diary entry and leaves it there, for whomever to find. She gives the letter she’s written to James to the nurse, to be given to him when she’s released—presumably because she can’t express her feelings to him in-person, precisely why she writes a letter to begin with.

The diary itself mimics, in tone & content, the letter she’s written to James, which chronologically fits considering they were written right after the other. And, in the diary, on May 11th, the day before she’s released, Mary writes: I wonder if the medicine-soaked me is the real me. When she speaks with James for one of the final times, she tells him: Between the disease and the drugs, I look like a monster, and everything she says makes the audience question whether or not this is the actual Mary, or instead what the disease & drugs has made her become. Even James seems to question it.

When James arrives to pick her up, Mary’s nurse gives James the letter and reads the first page. Whether he takes her home or to an unknown location is up to the audience—I personally believe he takes her somewhere in Silent Hill we’ve never seen before—but wherever it is, he ultimately kills her. He puts the body in the trunk of his car and leaves the area. On the way out of town, he remembers the letter—as much of it as he had read—and creates his delusion: that Mary died three years ago, and that she’s waiting for him in Silent Hill.

He parks at the Overlook, just outside of town; the road is blocked due to construction, and the place is deathly ill—silent, sorry. The game begins here.

There are several other interesting things to note about Brookhaven Hospital. One is on the map James carries—or what isn’t on the map. Brookhaven, as a building, a little purple dot, is present, just south of Heaven’s Night—also on the map. What’s peculiar is that Brookhaven Hospital isn’t named on the map; there’s nothing to indicate that it’s a hospital. According to this theory, the reason Mary states “We promised to go there someday, the two of us, but because of me, it never came true” is because James didn’t come to Brookhaven with Mary, but instead, Mary came alone—thus: they didn’t go together, so not just “the two of us.” And, if that’s the case, could it be that the reason Brookhaven doesn’t show up on the map is because of James’ memory repression?, and that, to him, it was just another building on a map? Heather carries the same map as James, but to her, Brookhaven Hospital is clearly marked. Why, then, would it not be for James?, and James only?

Laura seems to run in there with a purpose; James merely follows. As it turns out, this hospital has more relevance to James’ journey than he realizes—which goes to show that Laura, despite being a snotty, little brat, has a very distinct purpose as well: to lead James along; a Cheshire Cat, if you will. Without her, James would be just as lost as he was when he first strolled into town.

This also implies that Laura had a specific reason for coming to Brookhaven. Mary told Laura in her letter that I won't be in this hospital anymore, which, to a little girl, especially, would imply I’ll be at another hospital. She checks the first one she comes across, and she happens to be correct. There are several indications, even to Laura, that Mary stayed in, and she strikes gold on the first floor, in room C2: the teddy bears. And, along her way, she happens across a letter from Mary, addressed to James, which proves to Laura that she’s here in town—specifically at Brookhaven.

Another interesting thing to note is Maria’s reaction to the [otherside], specifically on the first floor. On any floor, in every other room, Maria acts normally: a blank stare, straight ahead, or at James. The first floor, however, coming off of the elevator, Maria acts noticeably different. (Keep in mind, too, that you never have to take Maria to the first floor, but if you do, you have the chance to see her act—more importantly: react—in a way you can’t see elsewhere.

With her back to James, her face to the wall, it seems there’s something about the first floor she doesn’t want to see or be reminded of. Being an aspect of Mary, replete with her reticent memories, this is a glimpse into the side of Mary that Maria couldn’t prevent from making itself known—same with her outburst in the basement, and how she feels “like it’s up to me to protect her (Laura).”

If this display meant nothing, that the first floor held no significance to Maria, then it wouldn’t have been available at all; she would’ve acted the same as she does coming off of the elevator on any floor. But it’s only this floor. The floor where Laura stops to play with the bears she happens to love—that even Maria knows she loves—and in that very room, in the [otherside], is the sound of glass-smashing. And, of course, it’s well known that sound plays an important & crucial role in determining past events in Silent Hill, and there just so happens to the sound of something glass crashing against the floor. What’s smashing? Perhaps a vase of flowers given to her by James; a vase that afterwards she smashed, because “I don’t deserve any flowers… I’m disgusting.” This, then, is where I believe spent her remaining days at Brookhaven Hospital: Room C2, on the first floor.

Finally: the [otherside] itself. In Silent Hill 2, the [otherside] appears only twice: at Brookhaven Hospital, and the Lakeview Hotel. Why these two places? Why not Woodside/Blue Creek Apartments? We know that the couple didn’t spend any time at the apartments during their vacation—they stayed together at Lakeview Hotel—and we know that James didn’t stay at Brookhaven Hospital, so why did it change if the [otherside]’s presence is because of him? Simply put: It’s not.

Lakeview Hotel reverts to a reflection of its actual self: a burnt-out husk of a building, similar to Nowhere of the previous Silent Hill. Brookhaven Hospital, however, acts differently, and even the shift between what James was experiencing before the shift is a memory of Mary: She’s carted, from the Examination Room, down the hallway, crying out for James, “praying that you’ll come and meet me… while gazing at the unchanging ceiling.” If this scene occurs for absolutely no reason, then it goes entirely against what everyone has said about Silent Hill 2: That everything has importance, nothing is insignificant. This one thirty-second clip, this glimpse into Mary’s life, suggests that there’s more emphasis in Brookhaven Hospital in relation to Mary than people had originally accredited—and they still don’t.

If Team Silent didn’t want people to believe that Mary spent anytime in Brookhaven Hospital, they wouldn’t have left so many clues suggesting it—whether anyone feels they’re blatant or not. The developers could’ve easily made the hospital just another “spooky area.” They didn’t. They included so many “little things” that amount to an overwhelming “big thing” it’s absurd. Personally, these are all very clear indications that Mary stayed here—there is no doubt in my mind—and to think otherwise cheapens the game & its meanings drastically, which clearly shouldn’t be the case. If that is the case, then things such as Mary’s dress in the apartments, lighting James’ way, the recurring television from room 312, the identical door leading to Angela in the apartments’ bedroom & in the Labyrinth, the dead body in the refrigerator and Eddie dying in a refrigerator—all of these things should be overlooked, ignored, avoided, shrugged-off, passed-over, and regarded as meaningless; as just visual fluff.

That, however, is not what Team Silent wanted. They wanted you to look closer.[/spoiler]

You're welcome. 8)


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Just Passing Through
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Wow thanks, maybe it is likly that she spent time at Brookhaven, thank you for providing this.

However I think it is still Likely Laura thought she was dead and didn't want to admit it. Nothing about this Theory is unable to truely go with that.


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^if you would, send it to me plz. I promised Tom I'd format it for him in forum code so he could re-post it.

Quote:
How rude. I asked for your evidence. I showed my evidence in my original post which I am beggining to wonder if you even read! Since you refuse to show your evidence I will therefore assume it does not exist. However that does not mean your thory is incorrect . It mean you fail at patiences and the ablity to express yourself in a proper manner


You didn't show any evidence. You showed supposition and speculation. They are not the same thing.

Quote:
I even said this from the very beginning. Your one of those people who can't accept anything that you don't belive. It's your way or the high way. I provided my belief and my reasosn why I think this. I said your belief was plausible. I find the liklyhood of her going to Brookhaven odd, btu wither way you said theat didn't matter.


I am always open to new ideas and have changed my mind on various Silent Hill theories, such as Lisa's role in Silent Hill 1, Walter Sullivan's dual nature, and of course Mary staying at Brookhaven. These theories were presented in a convincing fashion. You posted a theory, and reasoned it, but it wasn't convincing. The fact that I don't believe you does not mean I don't have an open mind.

That said, you didn't ask me for evidence. You asked me to disprove your theory. I can't do this because there's no proof to your theory. I can't disprove the theory Maria is a mutant robot ghost from Saturn, either, because no one said she wasn't.

Quote:
I hate to be rude back, but your being an ass. Your saying it's wrong for me to argue with you. I showed you my belief and proof, I asked for yours. Your response


You can argue with me all you like. There's nothing wrong with it.

Quote:
My response

idea formed by speculation: an idea of or belief about something arrived at through speculation or conjecture

aka a theory! Ta da!


I have no idea what point this is supposed to make.

And, since my theory is basically transcribing events of the game straightforward, I'm not sure what kind of 'proof' you're looking for. It's not even a theory as much as it is a presentation of events as the game describes them. What is it that you find questionable, exactly?

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Just Passing Through
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:shock: ..... :x ...... :( ....I give up, I was not trying to change your mind abotu anything. I willingly accept the Brookhaven theory now, because someone showed it to me.
My theory is based on how Laura reacts to the situation when she hears Mary is dead, the concept that the Leave ending is about Acceptence and Forgiveness, and that Laura and James are not so diffrent. Also the fact that Laura is in the Otherworld, it just doesn't fit. She's there because she loves Mary seems off somehow. She's there because she's in denial seems more likely to me. My theory is based off of looking at Laura from a non straightforward look, for an angry child who doesn't like or trust James she accepts what he says pretty easliy.

I never once tried to change you mind, mostly cause this is my belief and I see no reason to argue about it. If you think something diffrent well good the world needs more people who believe something diffrent, if we all agree then how boring life your be.
I feel you where rude, but as JuriDawn said...CHILL. And I shall not risk angering JuriDawn, it's not worth it.

I still would like to see the offical supplementary material you where speaking of though.


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www.translatedmemories.com

And, I'd take a suppository from JuriDawn any day. rar.

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Just Passing Through
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Hey Alone in the town. I want to say I'm sorry. I'm not very good at explaining theories, its why I don't normally write them down in the first place. So even though it makes sense to me, until I am better at this could you just ignore it. Sorry about that. Guess I should just stick to backing up one that I agree with then trying for my own. Oh guess what turns out I knew about that webpage all the time! www.translatedmemories.com I knew is sounded familiar!

Anyway sorry for the way I acted.


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SHH Cult Subscriber
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Aw, we're all friends here. With benefits, even.

alone in the town wrote:
I'd take a suppository from JuriDawn any day. rar.

How did I ever guess you'd say that? Alright cupcake, bend over.


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If it's not a chocolate cupcake, by virtue of this process it soon will be.

mikey: s'all good. We can also sometimes be an overbearing lot. I too apologize.

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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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don't know if this was thought of/posted before but mary may be protecting laura and not letting her go into the world of silent hill- but this could relate to a deeper theory..


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Historical Society Historian
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Laura is protected by her own lack of guilt. Silent Hill shows you a world based on your heart's contents. For James and Angela and such, guilt. Laura, however, feels intense loneliness, so she's in a beautiful, quiet, but completely empty town, with her only possible companions being James and Eddie, neither of whom she likes.

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I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Gravedigger
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AuraTwilight wrote:
Laura is protected by her own lack of guilt. Silent Hill shows you a world based on your heart's contents. For James and Angela and such, guilt. Laura, however, feels intense loneliness, so she's in a beautiful, quiet, but completely empty town, with her only possible companions being James and Eddie, neither of whom she likes.


How about Angela? Did Laura ever meet Angela?

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Spetsnaz sil Vnutrenniye Voiska Ministerstva Vnutrennikh Del

http://egan.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/2 ... ef=opinion

Think of Italy — which reminds me of California in so many ways — and its chronic inability to form a government. That’s California, with even better food and no parliamentary system.
....somewhere in Italy a contract was put out on the life of the article's author.


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Historical Society Historian
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Nope, she didn't. The two aren't connected in any way, so why would she, anyway? James and Eddie both have justifications (James knew Mary as well, and Eddie was Laura's ride into town).

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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