HOLE newspaper SPOILER

[trai has cake]

I do recall the fact that he said something about how he used to drink and all.

>>That doesn't work, though. If the HOLE is in his soul, why would that hole be gone right from the start?<<
what i could get from that is the fact that when James first gets to silent hill he's closed off from the truth. he's not fully accepting of the fact that he killed his wife - in fact he told Angela even that he would not kill himself (ironic because the "In The Water Ending" has him killing himself.) thus the reason the hole is closed off at the beginning. And it's not till nearing the end of the game that he begins to realize what he's done and how he's going to have to face it, thus the whole jumping into random holes episode.

[SHF]

It's not a clear reference at all.
The holes James jumps through represent his descent into his subconscious mind ( the more holes he jumps down, the closer he gets to the truth of what happened to Mary and why he is in town)

^ I agree with you. Tres.
The reason why the hole is gone now, means that James isn't quite ready yet to understand and learn the truth.
I guess I didn't clarify myself to well.

[alone in the town]

I do recall the fact that he said something about how he used to drink and all.

>>That doesn't work, though. If the HOLE is in his soul, why would that hole be gone right from the start?<<
what i could get from that is the fact that when James first gets to silent hill he's closed off from the truth. he's not fully accepting of the fact that he killed his wife - in fact he told Angela even that he would not kill himself (ironic because the "In The Water Ending" has him killing himself.) thus the reason the hole is closed off at the beginning. And it's not till nearing the end of the game that he begins to realize what he's done and how he's going to have to face it, thus the whole jumping into random holes episode.

The only problem with the above is that you can visit Neely's Bar again immediately prior to the descent down the holes, and the message is still there.

Also, his line about not killing himself is ironic only in the instance of In Water, being that it's the only ending out of the four in which he does opposite of what he says.

[trai has cake]

The only problem with the above is that you can visit Neely's Bar again immediately prior to the descent down the holes, and the message is still there.

Also, his line about not killing himself is ironic only in the instance of In Water, being that it's the only ending out of the four in which he does opposite of what he says.

i had not thought about that at all . . .

[Lying_Figure]

Personally I think the reasonable explanation was it referred to Neely's Bar being shut, and the only real reference to anything else being the 2nd time you get to go there in the game with the message about dying.

[SHF]

^
It's not about dying, it's about where James may be heading AFTER he dies.
The message is written on refrigerator glass doors, not on the front doors.

[Lying_Figure]

Thanks dude. I know I may have not many posts but I did get the implication, I was just trying to keep my post brief I was just trying to say the original "There was a hole here" message has no hidden mean IMO only the 2nd message does later on.

[The Adversary]

>The message is written on refrigerator glass doors, not on the front doors.<
Do you know what refrigerators are?

[SHF]

>The message is written on refrigerator glass doors, not on the front doors.<
Do you know what refrigerators are?

Lying figure got what I was saying, but obviously you didn't.

He was implying that the there was a hole here meant that the bar was closed. If this was the case, then the message would be on the front doors, not the refrigerator.
Why? Because people don't enter building through refrigerators

[alone in the town]

Except, the message is written on the inside of the papered-over shopfront window looking out towards Neely Street. The only refrigerator in this entire scenario keeps things cold entirely within the confines of your own imagination.

[The Adversary]

>Lying figure got what I was saying, but obviously you didn't.<
Obviously you don't even know what you're writing 90% of the time.

[SHF]

Except, the message is written on the inside of the papered-over shopfront window looking out towards Neely Street. The only refrigerator in this entire scenario keeps things cold entirely within the confines of your own imagination.

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
^
your'e right, it is a window. I though it was a refrigerator/freezer that slides open ( i was thinking like in wawa)

[LeriSuccubus]

^
It's not about dying, it's about where James may be heading AFTER he dies.
The message is written on refrigerator glass doors, not on the front doors.

That is a different message from the second time you enter Neely's, the HOLE message is in the window, the "after you die" message is on the back wall of the bar.

[Squarehead]

Hmmm, if it's about the holes like the ones in the Historical Society and The Abyss beyond it, then it's strange one of those things would've been in a bar of all places, whereas the other is in a place dedicated to the history of Silent Hill, or more importantly, an ex-jail house, a fitting meaningful place. Unless all the places that lead to the dark Otherworld are considered "holes" by whoever wrote that thing. Actually, i'm a little bit confused as to when the transitions happen in SH2 exactly.

To me, the significance of it was simple: after he killed Mary, James left his soul (the wall) with a hole at it. Then Maria (the newspapers) came to feel that "hole".
But can you really fill correctly a wall's hole with newspapers?

Where is there a hole that is filled with newspapers?

[The Adversary]

>i'm a little bit confused as to when the transitions happen in SH2 exactly.<
In Brookhaven Hospital after fighting the three hanging patients. From then on he's in the [otherside]. After descending the foghorn walkway in the Historical Society, he enters the abyss, from which he never really exits until he leaves Silent Hill.

[Squarehead]

>i'm a little bit confused as to when the transitions happen in SH2 exactly.<
In Brookhaven Hospital after fighting the three hanging patients. From then on he's in the [otherside]. After descending the foghorn walkway in the Historical Society, he enters the abyss, from which he never really exits until he leaves Silent Hill.

I thought it might be something like that, at least up to the point where he gets to the boat.

[LeriSuccubus]

I've been watching Twin Peaks for a little while now (haven't finished) but there was a part in it that one of the characters that is possessed by an evil entity talks about a hole that reminded me so much of the wall quote.

PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER:

"Leland's a babe in the woods, with a large hole where his conscious used to be. When I go children, I will pull that ripcord and you watch Leland remember. Watch him!"

[TIWIH777]

Someone for the love of all that is good get over to the silent hill wiki (http://silenthill.wikia.com/wiki/Neely%27s_Bar) and clean up the interpretations of the writing in Neely's Bar. Adversary, if you'd like, go ahead and just throw down the "It's Ernest Baldwin/director of brookhaven" theory, because somebody else through out that the writing is Laura

[hagbard]

Talking of this message in Neely's Bar, I was recently visiting friends in South Africa and I notice that some SA Silent Hill 2 fan (who else could it be?) grafittied it on a wall at:

1 Blanche Lane, Darrenwood, Randburg, Gauteng, South Africa

(if you want to plug that address into Google Maps) just where the Blanche Lane meets Republic Road. If you look back up Blanche Lane, there's a blue wall and the "There was a HOLE here.." graffiti is just slightly obscured by the telegraph pole.

Whoever that was - good job! There isn't enough Silent Hill graffiti in the world

[PoemOfTheLastMoment]

Talking of this message in Neely's Bar, I was recently visiting friends in South Africa and I notice that some SA Silent Hill 2 fan (who else could it be?) grafittied it on a wall at:

1 Blanche Lane, Darrenwood, Randburg, Gauteng, South Africa

(if you want to plug that address into Google Maps) just where the Blanche Lane meets Republic Road. If you look back up Blanche Lane, there's a blue wall and the "There was a HOLE here.." graffiti is just slightly obscured by the telegraph pole.

Whoever that was - good job! There isn't enough Silent Hill graffiti in the world

Hats Off to the guy, that's an awesome real life easter egg for SH2!!!