Crucifixion Pose (spoilers)

James got a letter. From a dead person. Oh dear.

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lain of the wired
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Post by lain of the wired »

^Well, yes and no- the Maryboss still wasn't REALLY Mary, after all. I mean, isn't Maria ultimately also the Maryboss? She does turn into her.
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Post by 11/21 »

It'd make sense if Maria in this pose (and being tortured) was a symbol of the pain James caused Mary IMO

And about the hanging man reference. In tarot that one leg kinda crossed is a big part of the symbolism of the meaning in the card, and i see no crossed leg so I'm not convinced as far as that theory goes (though i wish it had some more merit in my eyes).
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Post by Dante »

It´s a good theory, I´ve never seen that scene from "that" point.

Maybe it has holes, like many people said,but it´s interesting.
It´s probably the reason why the creators put and killed Maria that way.
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Post by ivs »

James is a murderer, Maria is a stripper. When Maria is in that position of the cage, her death sets him free from filth. The dream is over, the lust and desire of everything that was absent from his life with Mary is gone. Realization occurs. Salvation. Only in sacrificing her can he consciously redeem himself for his acts. Silent Hill being his descent into the underworld of mythological tales and the the crucifixion being the atonement for the reason of the entire adventure. All that is left would be the resurrection.

This is based on the hero archetype which is a model by James Campbell for heroes and hero worship throughout history.

Who knows
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Post by AuraTwilight »

That'd be awesome except Maria isn't the Hero Archetype in any sense of the word.
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Post by simeonalo »

AuraTwilight wrote:The Mary variation of the final boss is also upsidedown. Doesn't work.
Can one consider that the developers were a little too lazy or didn't think about recreating the Mary version boss? I think one can also consider that this boss fight isn't canon, that it can't be the "Maria" ending.

However, the developers haven't stated a canon ending, and said that it's all up to the player, so people can assume that the developers didn't have an alternate boss in mind.
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Post by lain of the wired »

AuraTwilight wrote:That'd be awesome except Maria isn't the Hero Archetype in any sense of the word.
Chyuh. That's what I was saying. Between the hanged man and the antichrist undertones (plus the whole John the Baptist theme- "I deny the truth?" Repeatedly? Anyone?) Maria's upside-down imagery is TOTALLY infused with meaning. But positive meaning? Unh-unh. Maria is no hero, not by any stretch. Victim at best, but even then, it's questionable how much she was a PERSONAL victim and how much she and James were both mere equivalent victims of circumstance. I've just never gotten enough of an "evil" vibe from James to say that either of them were deserving of the designation of "evil," nor "hero."

What makes them so beloved, I'd venture to say, is that they were too realistic and ultimately neutral, based on their contexts, to be forced into any kind of labeling like that.
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Post by JuriDawn »

simeonalo wrote:
AuraTwilight wrote:The Mary variation of the final boss is also upsidedown. Doesn't work.
Can one consider that the developers were a little too lazy or didn't think about recreating the Mary version boss?
If being upside down or right side up had any extra significance in this scenario, you can bet the developers would have put forth the extra effort to make it consistent.
I think one can also consider that this boss fight isn't canon, that it can't be the "Maria" ending.
Why not? Maria puts on Mary's face (as she does in all the other main endings), lets James "kill" Mary again to further distance himself from his dead wife, then meets him at the park.
ivs wrote:This is based on the hero archetype which is a model by James Campbell for heroes and hero worship throughout history.
Maria fits almost none of Joseph Campbell's characteristics for the Hero archetype. She had an unusual "birth" and journeyed through darkness. That's about it. Maria has no quest of her own, she never atones for anything, she is not rewarded for her great deeds because there are no great deeds; Maria is a deceiver. Maria's death is beneficial to James because she's holding him back from reconciling himself with Mary's death.

This thread is one that I recommend everyone read.
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Post by asphyxia_82 »

Maria is crucified upside down representing anti-christ not christ.
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Post by The Adversary »

Maria isn't crucified . . . period.
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Post by Soulless-Shadow »

KiramidHead wrote:Given that Maria is inverted, and the inverted cross is a satanic symbol
I know this comment is a few months old, but I just had to point something out. The inverted cross is not a satanic symbol. Google "Cross of St. Peter".
Maria is crucified upside down representing anti-christ not christ.
What? No. Just...no. SH2 has nothing to do with Christ or the anti-Christ or anything like that. As already pointed out in this thread (and most recently, The Adversary before me) Maria is not being crucified. Her death is reminiscent of the way criminals were put to death in Silent Hill, and the frame she's in is foreshadowing the final boss. It's also similar to the bodies and cages in the painting in the Historical Society (the one with Pyramid Head. Can't remember the exact name). None of that has anything to do with crucifixion.
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Post by AuraTwilight »

Not to mention an upside-down cross actually represents Saint Peter.
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Post by asphyxia_82 »

The upside down cross doesn't represent saint-peter, St-peter was crucified upside down because he was unworthy of being crucified upright like Christ..Being crucified upside down is meant to represent unworthiness and is used to express extreme dis respectfulness to whoever is crucified upside down. And I didn't mean she was crucified but she is clearly upside down and spread out LIKE she is crucified upside down in the bed with her arms spread out..
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Post by The Adversary »

Her arms aren't outstretched. They're to her sides.
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Post by simeonalo »

asphyxia_82 wrote:The upside down cross doesn't represent saint-peter, St-peter was crucified upside down because he was unworthy of being crucified upright like Christ..Being crucified upside down is meant to represent unworthiness and is used to express extreme dis respectfulness to whoever is crucified upside down. And I didn't mean she was crucified but she is clearly upside down and spread out LIKE she is crucified upside down in the bed with her arms spread out..
The second part is what I was trying to state, she's upside down, being slaughtered, a lance is used to kill her, a little like Jesus's crucifixion. Maybe she's "upside down" because she's not "worthy" of the real Mary (being that she's just a manifestation).

upside-down doesn't express extreme dis respectfulness. the upside-down crucifix is a high symbol in Christianity. In fact, many people wear upside-down crosses because they feel not worthy of Jesus. Thanks to all these fucking attention seeker Satanists, the upside down cross is perceived as a bad symbol :roll:
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Post by asphyxia_82 »

Agreed ^ Either way these are opinions people, the only people who can tell us the truth is the writers...
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Post by asphyxia_82 »

Image
her arms are stretched out... ??
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Post by Mephisto »

^And her legs too. . .?

To crucify someone upside down you need to have both legs laid together. Not wide open as the picture suggests.
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Post by asphyxia_82 »

i'm not saying she's crucified i'm saying she's clearly upside down for a reason, no? i'm just saying they might have put her upside down to represent an upside down crucifixion. I dont know CLEARLY JUST AN OPINION. Don't lose sleep over it...
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Post by The Adversary »

She's upside down because that's how Maria is last killed. And in that scene, w/ the two r.p.t.s, her arms are at her sides.

simeonalo is not talking about the final boss in his original post.
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